SEC=UGA Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I've always found this topic to be quite interesting. There is no doubt that the left wing has and is using certain groups to push their agenda. Parts of the environmental movement in the US is loaded with socialists, make no mistake about that. You need only to go to some of the ELF meetings to ascertain this for yourself (You'll even run into a great deal of them at Nature Conservancy functions.) Schools have indeed pushed their curriculum to the left. A trend that started in the 70's and 80's and has been running even more rampant over the past two decades. The Christian Religion has been stigmatized in this country. If one is anti-abortion, supports creationism, quotes the bible in a public forum, etc... they are branded as radical, derided and often ostracized. Multi-culturalism is being forcefed to us. From the time a child is old enough to watch television and throughout their schooling. They are being taught to embrace different ways of doing things while eschewing the "American" way of doing things. Never in my life would I have thought this would happen, never did I think their would be arguments over whether the Pledge should be said in schools, never did I envision that people would try and outlaw "Christmas" plays and parties in our public schools, but this is happening. Is it some sinister communist plot, yes, no, maybe. I will have to agree with a few things, though. Academia has become EXTREMELY liberal and these are the people setting the agendas and curricula for schools and teaching the next generation of teachers. I've had friends who have gone into educational studies and come out even more hardened left than when they entered. I have friends who are educators that tout the benefits of communism and tout these benefits to their students, "the students need to hear the 'other side of the story'." You can not ignore that some of what is going on does smack of realigning the values of the American public. It is nicely wrapped and fed to us in very unassuming, non-sinister, ways. Maybe we are just "evolving" as a society, but in many instances I feel that this "evolution" is leading us down the wrong path and degrading society as a whole. Again, is it some sinister communist plot? Not entirely, but there is quite a bit of solid documentation of the left wing waging a cultural war in this country. And yes, the right wing continues to fight against it but is quickly losing ground. Decadence, immorality and a sense of entitlement seem to be a lot more appealing than piety, hard work and living within one's means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 And yes, the right wing continues to fight against it but is quickly losing ground. Decadence, immorality and a sense of entitlement seem to be a lot more appealing than piety, hard work and living within one's means. have you read up on what happened in the 20's in this country. its happening again. I am waiting for the day when a scroll us pulled from the mountain top that will contain the 11 commandment. " thou shalt not give or take entitlements and live within ones means." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 have you read up on what happened in the 20's in this country. its happening again. I am waiting for the day when a scroll us pulled from the mountain top that will contain the 11 commandment. " thou shalt not give or take entitlements and live within ones means." Splain to me what happened when the roar ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 And yes, the right wing continues to fight against it but is quickly losing ground. Decadence, immorality and a sense of entitlement seem to be a lot more appealing than piety, hard work and living within one's means. Good grief, the victim is strong in this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Good grief, the victim is strong in this one. I'm treating the post as satire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I'm treating the post as satire. It's people like Chavez who don't treat the liberal agenda indoctrination legitimately who ruin this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Good grief, the victim is strong in this one. Yeah, that's me, the victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Really Muck? Generally you come across as an intelligent, well-grounded individual. Every so often however, you drop one of these right wing turds. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Really Muck? Generally you come across as an intelligent, well-grounded individual. Every so often however, you drop one of these right wing turds. What gives? In Muck's defense (I'm sure he can adequately explain himself) this is a very interesting topic. The US Rep is obviously a bit fo a right wing Christian, but he is not far off on the agenda as set forth by the Communist Party USA. If you remove the parts about Jesus/Christianity he is making a reasoned argument. How far have their tentacles stretched into our every day life and public policy is up for debate, but their expressed goals and the mechanisms that they use mirror those as outlined in the video. An excerpt from their web page: "The Communist Party stands for the interests of the American working class and the American people. It stands for our interests in both the present and the future. Solidarity with workers of other countries is also part of our work. We work in coalition with the labor movement, the peace movement, the student movement, organizations fighting for equality and social justice, the environmental movement, immigrants rights groups and the health care for all campaign." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If it isn't one irrational groundless fear, it's another. Good lord, what the heck is wrong with people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Really Muck? Generally you come across as an intelligent, well-grounded individual. Every so often however, you drop one of these right wing turds. What gives? I'm not sure I follow. Re-read everything I've said in this thread and then LMK what exactly you think I agree with or disagree with about the contents of this video. Again, all I'm pretty sure I did was to start a conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If it isn't one irrational groundless fear, it's another. Good lord, what the heck is wrong with people? How is it an irrational and groundless "fear"? Are you looking for an armed rebellion, a Bolshevik-esque revolution? That would not happen in the US. Instead, as the thread is aptly titled, it is a "grinding" revolution, an erosion of sorts (or an evolution, to place a more positive spin on it.) Call it what you want a shift to the left, communist ideology, whatever. Polls bear it out, the ideology of America is being shifted left on social and economic issues. How did this happen, is it just a natural evolution (there are a lot of books on this topic) or has it been something in play for a while, something that ideologues have invested much time and a great deal of resources? There is something that has precipitated these changes, what is it? I do believe that these changes are taking place through a concerted effort, a systemic effort, by ideologues (a power structure), to impose their value system. It starts with education, it is is reinforced by reporting/popular media and galvanized via legislation. This is an event that is going to take many decades to unfold. Without armed rebellion it can not happen overnight. But, in the long run timing is not an issue the ultimate outcome, the eventual success of their struggle is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 How is it an irrational and groundless "fear"? I do believe that these changes are taking place through a concerted effort, a systemic effort, by ideologues (a power structure), to impose their value system. It starts with education, it is is reinforced by reporting/popular media and galvanized via legislation. Irony, right here folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Irony, right here folks. So, how is it irrational and groundless to not like the direction in which our country is moving? I don't like the thought of nationalized healthcare with an individual mandate. I don't like the idea of public sector unions, I don't like the idea of many of the regulations placed on businesses, I don't like the idea that kid's cant have Christmas Plays at school (and I'm FAR from being a Christian), I don't like the idea of "hate crime" legislation, I don't like the idea of affirmative action, I don't like the idea of not checking for a persons documents when they "look" like they belong to a group that has a high instance of entering this country illegally, I don't like the idea of the US government being a large stake holder in one of the US' largest auto manufacturers, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 So, how is it irrational and groundless to not like the direction in which our country is moving? I don't like the thought of nationalized healthcare with an individual mandate. I don't like the idea of public sector unions, I don't like the idea of many of the regulations placed on businesses, I don't like the idea that kid's cant have Christmas Plays at school (and I'm FAR from being a Christian), I don't like the idea of "hate crime" legislation, I don't like the idea of affirmative action, I don't like the idea of not checking for a persons documents when they "look" like they belong to a group that has a high instance of entering this country illegally, I don't like the idea of the US government being a large stake holder in one of the US' largest auto manufacturers, etc... Well, there's a lot about the country I'm not thrilled with either. Some of it is on your list and some of it is not. But I do have to laugh at a lot of the hand wringing in this video, because it appears to lack context past the last 50 or so years. This has never been a christian nation. Certainly founded on christian beliefs but watching this video, one should be surprised we're not some type of Papalcy that's lost it's way. If it was, then slavery never would have been legal. I do find your "It starts with education, it is is reinforced by reporting/popular media and galvanized via legislation" line to be semi-hysterical at best because it is completely ignoring what input parents have as they raise their kids in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 And, aguably, the word "make" in your sentence renders the application to Christianity moot. IMO, Jesus, as the embodiment of the essence of Christianity, isn't / wasn't about "making" people do anything. Encourage? Sure. Guide and lead? Yup. Make? No. Now, if we want to look at any of a variety of other somewhat common religious teachings, some of them are full of "if you don't, we will kill you". And, to me, that is the ultimate definition of "make". That sort of "make" is not present in Christs' teachings (or at least any of which I'm aware). "And ye shall know the truth and the truth will make you free." John 8:32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Oral Roberts University is a bastion of liberal dogooders !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Maybe in the lunatic fringe side of things, yes, you could say that. But there's also a moderate side to the movement - people like myself, I'd say - who aren't "NO PRIVATE PROPERTY!" to more along the lines of "you know, we should attempt to get more in line with being stewards of the environment, as opposed to mere exploiters. And maybe I'm hypocritical on that, because I sure as hell like my big TV and two cars and 2000 sq ft house and all that. That's more of a "conservationist", which I consider myself. People what water and air kept clean, reasonable controls on hunting/fishing limits, against animal cruelty, stuff like that. To me, inherent in the term "environmentalist" is the attitude that "rat=dog=boy" and things like that. Just my way of thinking, and it could just be differing definitions of terms. I apologize, I should have said "ultra religious". Maybe my mistake was because all I see lately is the religious/christian right espousing anit-gay, anti-single parent, anti-abortion, and taking the Bible too literally and I'm sick of it. To me any group that wants to usurp the philosophy of "Separation of church and state" is wrong. It was, in my opinion, why people came here. Argue that if you want, but right or left those separation rights are sacred to me. Don't get me started on Raygun who used it w/ many evangelicals including but not limited to "Jimmy' the FELON' Bakker back when. That sleazy basturd should still be in jail. Come to think of it I should have said religious nutballs, as religion and politics in MY USA should never be equated as even ground. One has nothing to do w/ the other and politics and religion in this country should be totally separate. If that includes the words "under god" so be it. No need to apologize. I can understand what you meant, and if you'd said "baptists" or "evangelicals" then it would have fit. I've never made a secret of my Christianity and I'm also a guy who says abortion, drugs, prostitution and the like should be legal (most) Baptists would outlaw dancing for goodness sake! I don't want a theocracy here any more than you do, man. But the stuff these people try to do isn't Christ-like, as muck said. Take prayer in school - there is no law that says your kid can't pray in school, but to set aside school time for a prayer and MAKE another kid pray (or even the stupid "moment of silence") is a clear violation of peoples rights. And you guys that don't think there is some kind of concerted effort to make the US more socialist need to take a look at the Fabian society in England from about 150 or so years ago. It's happening (the planning and maneuvering at least) with CPUSA and others. To deny that is willful ignorance, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 To me, inherent in the term "environmentalist" is the attitude that "rat=dog=boy" and things like that. Just my way of thinking, and it could just be differing definitions of terms. I prefer to consider an environmentalist as one that is very conscious of the environment we all share and tends to oppose things that are likely, in their view, to damage or otherwise degrade said environment. All movements have their nutcases. For example, some of the stuff from PETA is very damaging to them because it's so silly, enabling others to mock them. But in general, what can be wrong with demanding ethical treatment of animals? It's wrong to assume that because some nutjobs spike trees in a deliberate attempt to injure loggers, then they must all be like that. Are all Republicans like the Tea Party? I sure hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 That's more of a "conservationist", which I consider myself. People what water and air kept clean, reasonable controls on hunting/fishing limits, against animal cruelty, stuff like that. To me, inherent in the term "environmentalist" is the attitude that "rat=dog=boy" and things like that. Just my way of thinking, and it could just be differing definitions of terms. No need to apologize. I can understand what you meant, and if you'd said "baptists" or "evangelicals" then it would have fit. I've never made a secret of my Christianity and I'm also a guy who says abortion, drugs, prostitution and the like should be legal (most) Baptists would outlaw dancing for goodness sake! I don't want a theocracy here any more than you do, man. But the stuff these people try to do isn't Christ-like, as muck said. Take prayer in school - there is no law that says your kid can't pray in school, but to set aside school time for a prayer and MAKE another kid pray (or even the stupid "moment of silence") is a clear violation of peoples rights. ____________________________________________________________________ __________ And you guys that don't think there is some kind of concerted effort to make the US more socialist need to take a look at the Fabian society in England from about 150 or so years ago. It's happening (the planning and maneuvering at least) with CPUSA and others. To deny that is willful ignorance, IMO. I'm w/ to the line above. No idea what the Fabian society is. I 'm guessing it has nothing to do w/ THIS GUY... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 To me, inherent in the term "environmentalist" is the attitude that "rat=dog=boy" and things like that. Just my way of thinking, and it could just be differing definitions of terms. let me say without any hesitation, that your attitude is quite naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The Christian Religion has been stigmatized in this country. If one is anti-abortion, supports creationism, quotes the bible in a public forum, etc... they are branded as radical, derided and often ostracized. Well they shouldn't have burned people at the stake, drowned people, tortured people, blew up Oklahoma city, etc. Alot of Christians seems to fall in line with the American military way of thinking. I find that strange. Jesus never killed anyone. In fact I believe it was one of the Commandments, unless the person is brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm not sure I follow. Re-read everything I've said in this thread and then LMK what exactly you think I agree with or disagree with about the contents of this video. Again, all I'm pretty sure I did was to start a conversation. I'm not suggesting that you expressly advocate the positions asserted in these handful of right-wing pieces that you've posted, only that, IMO, they are of such a high degree of propaganda that merely putting them out there furthers their ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm not suggesting that you expressly advocate the positions asserted in these handful of right-wing pieces that you've posted, only that, IMO, they are of such a high degree of propaganda that merely putting them out there furthers their ends. Would you prefer he post left wing propaganda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I'm not suggesting that you expressly advocate the positions asserted in these handful of right-wing pieces that you've posted, only that, IMO, they are of such a high degree of propaganda that merely putting them out there furthers their ends. Just starting a conversation (which surprisingly has been relatively civil thus far, and hopefully will continue to be so). ********************************** I think that the communist party has been in the USA for many decades. I think that you think that, too. I think they exist in an effort to affect change on society. In that regard, they are no different from a group of Presbyterians, the HS booster squad or the ACLU. I think that organizations that continue to exist for long periods of time are at least modestly successful in affecting the changes they seek. I think you would agree with this comment. I think that organizations attempting to affect change either make progress or they do not. If they do not, eventually they will cease to exist. As long as they make progress, they remain a going concern. I think you would agree with this comment. So, in sum, I believe that the communist party has had a presence, and continues to have a presence, only because they have had some level of success in affecting the change they intend to affect, otherwise, they would have ceased to exist at some point in the past. I think you would agree with this comment. So, I'm not sure why you may think that you and I disagree on anything in this thread? Edited August 23, 2011 by muck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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