Generational issue or just lack of leadership?

[Boilerduff]

Something for our diverse crowd to discuss.. Thought it interesting.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-...=0&denied=1

 

Is it the erosion of the older generations' way of life, sense of responsibility, faith, and work ethic that has us where we are, or is it the lack of our own leadership in the younger generations' unwillingness to step up to responsibility and implement change that has created the world we live in?

[SEC=UGA]

Something for our diverse crowd to discuss.. Thought it interesting.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-...=0&denied=1

 

Is it the erosion of the older generations' way of life, sense of responsibility, faith, and work ethic that has us where we are, or is it the lack of our own leadership in the younger generations' unwillingness to step up to responsibility and implement change that has created the world we live in?

 

A little of both.

 

The younger generation seemingly has not been charged with the same responsibilities as were previous generations. Parents, rightfully so, to an extent, want life to be easier for their kids. This means allowing them to be kids, giving them "stuff" that the parent was bereft of. You see this across the whole spectrum in the US, whether it be a person from a generational US background or even second generation families. Parents want to make their child's life comfortable, period. This has a tendency to create an attitude of entitlement and erodes, to a degree, one's work ethic and sense of responsibility.

 

A lot of this has to do with a very comfortable lifestyle that has been afforded by relatively high incomes and relatively low cost of goods. Parents have the money to support the family. This absolves the children from having to work in many cases.

 

Further, it seems kids are not held accountable, the idea of yielding to authority is not as imprinted upon their psyche. Seemingly, nothing is the child's fault... Bad grades, the teacher is unreasonable. Kid gets caught stealing, he's just young and made a mistake.

 

Growing up, and especially in the news in the late 90's, you could see a trend developing. Parents blaming other entities for the transgressions of their kids and courts offering leniency for infractions. We had an instance in East Cobb where three football players, from upper income families, who were awarded scholarships for football (Vandy, Navy and Samford, I believe), were arrested after they stole a SUV and drove it around running over mailboxes, while drunk. High powered lawyers were hired, the parents went in front of the media to denounce the negative publicity surrounding the events (boys will be boys, they were too young to understand the severity of their transgressions...) and the court subsequently reduced the charges to keep the kids from losing their scholarships from a felony conviction.

 

We have become a society that is soft on children, we do not hold them as accountable as we once did. We do not instill the values that were once instilled. We do not make them work as hard. We, essentially, have taught them that they can do no wrong, that others should bow to their whims and that when faced with adversity, mommy and daddy will be there to pick them up and support them.

Edited November 17, 2011 by SEC=UGA

[Boilerduff]

We see it in our neighborhood,some of the neighborhood kids just walk all over their parents. I could never understand that.

[detlef]

At 43, I fell like I'm sort of stuck right in the middle of two generations that are doing little to impress me. There's far too much evidence that shows that those a bit older than me acted like they were going to be the last generation to ever live here and I'm constantly unimpressed with 20 somethings. Not all, mind you, I employ some great kids who really seem to have a very healthy perspective and want to do great things.

[WaterMan]

Most Americans suck.

 

The End.

[BeeR]

A little of both.

 

The younger generation seemingly has not been charged with the same responsibilities as were previous generations. Parents, rightfully so, to an extent, want life to be easier for their kids. This means allowing them to be kids, giving them "stuff" that the parent was bereft of. You see this across the whole spectrum in the US, whether it be a person from a generational US background or even second generation families. Parents want to make their child's life comfortable, period. This has a tendency to create an attitude of entitlement and erodes, to a degree, one's work ethic and sense of responsibility.

 

A lot of this has to do with a very comfortable lifestyle that has been afforded by relatively high incomes and relatively low cost of goods. Parents have the money to support the family. This absolves the children from having to work in many cases.

 

Further, it seems kids are not held accountable, the idea of yielding to authority is not as imprinted upon their psyche. Seemingly, nothing is the child's fault... Bad grades, the teacher is unreasonable. Kid gets caught stealing, he's just young and made a mistake.

 

Growing up, and especially in the news in the late 90's, you could see a trend developing. Parents blaming other entities for the transgressions of their kids and courts offering leniency for infractions. We had an instance in East Cobb where three football players, from upper income families, who were awarded scholarships for football (Vandy, Navy and Samford, I believe), were arrested after they stole a SUV and drove it around running over mailboxes, while drunk. High powered lawyers were hired, the parents went in front of the media to denounce the negative publicity surrounding the events (boys will be boys, they were too young to understand the severity of their transgressions...) and the court subsequently reduced the charges to keep the kids from losing their scholarships from a felony conviction.

 

We have become a society that is soft on children, we do not hold them as accountable as we once did. We do not instill the values that were once instilled. We do not make them work as hard. We, essentially, have taught them that they can do no wrong, that others should bow to their whims and that when faced with adversity, mommy and daddy will be there to pick them up and support them.

Excellent post. Thanks for a reminder that others get it.

 

IMO it's a very complex thing which more or less started with the Great Depression IMO - so many people were so lacking for so long that as post-WW II kicked in and we were "a land of plenty," parents wanted to give kids (and themselves) all that they didn't have before ie a far more comfortable/easier lifestyle, something that was both strongly desired and very achievable generally, both due to a booming economy and improving technology (appliances etc). The problem was in thinking easier = better and SEC summed up well why this is short-sighted as hell. Unfortunately it continued though, along with a growing squeamishness/laziness about discipline, a spoiled brat entitlement attitude, a growing social isolation - not good for social creatures - and cliche as it might sound a sedentary "brain rot syndrome" thanks to TV addiction and later the internet vs reading books, quality family time etc etc. Another factor was working women becoming the norm, not the exception. This put enormous additional strain on the family unit, both kids and marrriages, as both parents now came home after a long day at work and had to put more energy into the kids, the spouse, housework, whatever - many things the mother traditionally had mostly done.

 

We are now simply caught in bigger and bigger loops of the ripple effect of it all.

 

 

Edit and PS: that article is a joke. Just another putz's thinly veiled liberal rant long on dramatic BS and short on IQ or even facts eg talking about "riots at PSU that resembled Lord of the Flies" Please find another villeage Mr Day.

Edited November 17, 2011 by BeeR

[lennykravitz2004]

I can't recall where I read this, however I thought I saw this (CNN.com or msnbc.com many months ago pre-tsunami) very same sentiment expressed in the Japanese culture as well. This seems to me to be a global phenomenon as opposed to just the US. How many of the young Japanese have really no comprehension of immediate post-WWII, and what the country has gone through to get back to where they are today. The "entitlement" many in the US expect is seeping across the Pacific.

[BeeR]

I agree but think the US led the way.

[Savage Beatings]

At 43, I fell like I'm sort of stuck right in the middle of two generations that are doing little to impress me. There's far too much evidence that shows that those a bit older than me acted like they were going to be the last generation to ever live here and I'm constantly unimpressed with 20 somethings. Not all, mind you, I employ some great kids who really seem to have a very healthy perspective and want to do great things.

 

 

I have to admit that I agree with this. Seems like the generation ahead of me is willing to sell the rest of us out so that they can live comfortably, and the generation behind me is too stupid or lazy to step up and make some tough decisions with the rest of us. And like you, of course I know this doesn't apply to everyone in either generation. Just some anectdotal observations.

[Boilerduff]

By the comments above, does it mean that our whole sytem has to come crashing down, for a change to happen?

 

I mean should I be learning and teaching my kids how to farm, to protect against the U.S. population's arrogance and stupidity? I am not one to jump to conclusions, but I can't help but think Greece isn't that far off for us!

 

How do we get personal responsibilty re-instilled into our culture? It doesn't seem to be there for a lot of people in the USA at this point. Maybe it is human nature. Maybe it's the entitlements and welfare that have created the feelings of entitlement. I just think that it needs to change, and I'm not sure how that happens.

[The Holy Roller]

By the comments above, does it mean that our whole sytem has to come crashing down, for a change to happen?

 

I mean should I be learning and teaching my kids how to farm, to protect against the U.S. population's arrogance and stupidity? I am not one to jump to conclusions, but I can't help but think Greece isn't that far off for us!

 

How do we get personal responsibilty re-instilled into our culture? It doesn't seem to be there for a lot of people in the USA at this point. Maybe it is human nature. Maybe it's the entitlements and welfare that have created the feelings of entitlement. I just think that it needs to change, and I'm not sure how that happens.

 

A wise investment.

[SEC=UGA]

By the comments above, does it mean that our whole sytem has to come crashing down, for a change to happen?

 

I mean should I be learning and teaching my kids how to farm, to protect against the U.S. population's arrogance and stupidity? I am not one to jump to conclusions, but I can't help but think Greece isn't that far off for us!

 

How do we get personal responsibilty re-instilled into our culture? It doesn't seem to be there for a lot of people in the USA at this point. Maybe it is human nature. Maybe it's the entitlements and welfare that have created the feelings of entitlement. I just think that it needs to change, and I'm not sure how that happens.

 

Unfortunately, I can't blame this on entitlements and welfare. It seems that middle class kids, who used to prop up this country, have lost their drive. A lot of this has to do with standard of living. Where we see a lot of this malaise, Japan, as another person mentioned, is in relatively wealthy countries. Kids don't have the ambition to go out and produce as they once did, they are content to live at home and be provided for. We see this in Greece, 60 minutes has a segment a few years back where something like 60% of the 20 to 35 YO males lived at home which is quite a divergence from historical norms.

 

Beer also made a good point with regard to the break down of the family unit/parenting. It was uncommon in the early to mid 20thcentury to have both parents working. This allowed people to focus on parenting, life wasn't a rush packed into the first two hours you get home. The wife, typically, had things prepared; dinner ready, the house clean, clothes clean and was able to help with homework after little johnny got home from school at 3:00 (she could supervise his activities, as well.) Nowdays we have to do things in a mad rush and basic parenting gets overlooked. Though, we think we have done a good job because we cart Johnny off to school in his Polo shirts, Abercrombie jeans and his new i-phone securely plugged into his ears via a new set of $170 ear phones. The only way, it seems, that we can express our love to our children now is through materials and instead of disciplining them when they do wrong we nurture the wrong doer by blaming external forces. THe reason we do so is because we do have so little time with them that we want said time to be pleasant rather than compromised by conflict and instruction... We want them to have fun, we want them to enjoy childhood more than we did. It seems that we treat our relationships with our children more as a friendship rather than as a parental relationship.

 

It is not an easy question to answer, how do we get personal responsibility reinstilled... If I had the answer to that I'd be a millionaire. But, what I plan on doing with regard to my kids, is to make them work for what they have, set schedules and invade their privacy. My daughter is only two-and-a-half, but we have dinner every night at 6:30/6:45. The television goes off and we talk to her, ask her how her day was, etc... Yeah, the conversations at this point are a little one sided as she does not have a full gasp of the English language, but I want this type of interaction and setting to seem normal and for her to anticipate that every night, until she moves out, that this type of interaction will occur. My child's room will not be a cave into which she can descend to get away from mommy and daddy. I plan to not put a TV in her room, ever. No computer in her room, ever. I will strictly limit the amount of time that she spends on her cell phone while at home. I plan on her working when she gets of age. She will have designated house chores. She will participate in extra-curricular activities of her choosing. We will be in touch with her teachers and I will know who her friends are. Let's just say, I will be involved in my child's life as her parent.

 

Will I coddle her a bit, sure, you can't throw an 8, 10, 12 YO to the wolves, but you can explain causal relationships to them (you act up in school, there are repercussions... you destroy someone's property, you replace it... you get thrown in jail for shoplifting, I kill you.) You can make them work for what they have and you can expect that they perform chores in order to have the right to live under your roof. You can also teach them to respect those around them as well as authority figures. You don't have to tell them that everyone else is right and they are wrong, but you do have to expose them to the reality that they aren't always right.

 

Overall, I don't think we are headed the way of Greece. We do however need to change our course and get back to building "parental" relationships with our kids rather than being their BFF...

[Azazello1313]

there is a lot of truth there. on a deep, fundamental level, the baby boomer generation took far too much for granted. they created, in the words of famed sociologist Christopher Lasch, a culture of narcissism. a fairly recent david brooks column on the topic -- written before the "occupy" nonsense, which makes it somewhat prophetic:

 

Worst of all, they [new college grads] are sent off into this world with the whole baby-boomer theology ringing in their ears. If you sample some of the commencement addresses being broadcast on C-Span these days, you see that many graduates are told to: Follow your passion, chart your own course, march to the beat of your own drummer, follow your dreams and find yourself. This is the litany of expressive individualism, which is still the dominant note in American culture.

 

But, of course, this mantra misleads on nearly every front.

 

College grads are often sent out into the world amid rapturous talk of limitless possibilities. But this talk is of no help to the central business of adulthood, finding serious things to tie yourself down to. The successful young adult is beginning to make sacred commitments — to a spouse, a community and calling — yet mostly hears about freedom and autonomy.

 

Today’s graduates are also told to find their passion and then pursue their dreams. The implication is that they should find themselves first and then go off and live their quest. But, of course, very few people at age 22 or 24 can take an inward journey and come out having discovered a developed self.

 

Most successful young people don’t look inside and then plan a life. They look outside and find a problem, which summons their life. A relative suffers from Alzheimer’s and a young woman feels called to help cure that disease. A young man works under a miserable boss and must develop management skills so his department can function. Another young woman finds herself confronted by an opportunity she never thought of in a job category she never imagined. This wasn’t in her plans, but this is where she can make her contribution.

 

Most people don’t form a self and then lead a life. They are called by a problem, and the self is constructed gradually by their calling.

 

that read also made me think of something else I read yesterday, speaking about another product of the boomer culture, the rise of "davos capitalism"....gets more toward my own political leanings, but it is apt:

 

In The Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith warned, "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." The shenanigans of business leaders over the last year, which led to a serious loss of faith in markets and a call for more government intervention, sadly proves Smith's point. Unfortunately, the problem runs deeper than Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Merrill Lynch, AIG or whatever company has grabbed the headlines of the day.

 

Smith, who published >his landmark work in 1776, warned of corporate collusion, but we're experiencing something much more insidious -- not just businesses, but business and government and a host of others all meeting, and colluding, at the posh Swiss resort town of Davos. It is Adam Smith's nightmare.

 

This isn't free market capitalism. It's Davos capitalism, a managerial capitalism run by an enlightened elite--politicians, business leaders, technology gurus, bureaucrats, academics, and celebrities--all gathered together trying to make the economic world smarter or more humane. It might even be, as Bill Gates famously said last year at Davos, a more "creative" capitalism.

 

The late Samuel Huntington coined the term Davos Man -- a soulless man, technocratic, nation-less, and cultureless, severed from reality. The modern economics that undergirded Davos capitalism is equally soulless, a managerial capitalism that reduces economics to mathematics and separates it from human action and human creativity.

 

And we looked up to Davos Man. Who wouldn't be impressed by the gatherings at the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum at Davos, a Swiss ski resort? Sharply dressed, eloquent, rich, famous, Republican, Democrat, Tory, Labour, Conservative, Socialist, highly connected, powerful and ever so bright.

 

Then, when the whole managerial economy collapsed, the managers and technocrats lost faith in markets. But they did not lose faith in themselves, and now they want us to entrust even more of the economy to them.

....

The goal of economic liberty is not a society of producers and consumers in equilibrium. Economic liberty is important because it creates space for people to live out their freedom, take care of their families, and fulfill their responsibilities. Economic freedom is necessary because it allows people to take risks and create material prosperity for a flourishing life. Economic liberty is needed because without it there can be no political liberty. Both require individual virtue and a moral culture for sustenance. Neither an adolescent culture following its whims, nor a soulless culture severed from its historical roots, from the sacrifices and struggles of our fathers whose spirit and dedication to freedom made it possible, is adequate.

 

Lord Acton wrote, "Liberty is the delicate fruit of a mature civilization." We must begin anew the work of rebuilding the moral culture -- one committed to truth, responsibility and a spiritual depth that the Davos Man cannot provide. Our liberty depends on it.

 

I do feel we have taken our moral culture for granted, and are bearing the fruits of that negligence. the entitlement mentality of the OWS generation is but one clear example.

 

lastly, generation x is sick of your bullchit (you will probably have to edit the link in your address bar from "bulltaco" to, you know..)

[BeeR]

Unfortunately, I can't blame this on entitlements and welfare. It seems that middle class kids, who used to prop up this country, have lost their drive. A lot of this has to do with standard of living. Where we see a lot of this malaise, Japan, as another person mentioned, is in relatively wealthy countries. Kids don't have the ambition to go out and produce as they once did, they are content to live at home and be provided for. We see this in Greece, 60 minutes has a segment a few years back where something like 60% of the 20 to 35 YO males lived at home which is quite a divergence from historical norms.

 

Beer also made a good point with regard to the break down of the family unit/parenting. It was uncommon in the early to mid 20thcentury to have both parents working. This allowed people to focus on parenting, life wasn't a rush packed into the first two hours you get home. The wife, typically, had things prepared; dinner ready, the house clean, clothes clean and was able to help with homework after little johnny got home from school at 3:00 (she could supervise his activities, as well.) Nowdays we have to do things in a mad rush and basic parenting gets overlooked. Though, we think we have done a good job because we cart Johnny off to school in his Polo shirts, Abercrombie jeans and his new i-phone securely plugged into his ears via a new set of $170 ear phones. The only way, it seems, that we can express our love to our children now is through materials and instead of disciplining them when they do wrong we nurture the wrong doer by blaming external forces. THe reason we do so is because we do have so little time with them that we want said time to be pleasant rather than compromised by conflict and instruction... We want them to have fun, we want them to enjoy childhood more than we did. It seems that we treat our relationships with our children more as a friendship rather than as a parental relationship.

 

It is not an easy question to answer, how do we get personal responsibility reinstilled... If I had the answer to that I'd be a millionaire. But, what I plan on doing with regard to my kids, is to make them work for what they have, set schedules and invade their privacy. My daughter is only two-and-a-half, but we have dinner every night at 6:30/6:45. The television goes off and we talk to her, ask her how her day was, etc... Yeah, the conversations at this point are a little one sided as she does not have a full gasp of the English language, but I want this type of interaction and setting to seem normal and for her to anticipate that every night, until she moves out, that this type of interaction will occur. My child's room will not be a cave into which she can descend to get away from mommy and daddy. I plan to not put a TV in her room, ever. No computer in her room, ever. I will strictly limit the amount of time that she spends on her cell phone while at home. I plan on her working when she gets of age. She will have designated house chores. She will participate in extra-curricular activities of her choosing. We will be in touch with her teachers and I will know who her friends are. Let's just say, I will be involved in my child's life as her parent.

 

Will I coddle her a bit, sure, you can't throw an 8, 10, 12 YO to the wolves, but you can explain causal relationships to them (you act up in school, there are repercussions... you destroy someone's property, you replace it... you get thrown in jail for shoplifting, I kill you.) You can make them work for what they have and you can expect that they perform chores in order to have the right to live under your roof. You can also teach them to respect those around them as well as authority figures. You don't have to tell them that everyone else is right and they are wrong, but you do have to expose them to the reality that they aren't always right.

 

Overall, I don't think we are headed the way of Greece. We do however need to change our course and get back to building "parental" relationships with our kids rather than being their BFF...

:applause:

 

Parents like you are very much an endangered species SEC but again nice to know you're not extinct just yet. What you said should be a 1+1=2 level of common sense but it's amazing how many don't get it or insist much of what you said is wrong. No TV or PC in the room? Make them do chores? Can't "hide out" in their room all day? Set high standards for your kids vs a "whatever" attitude? Be a parent instead of a buddy? gasp. I esp applaud working on the kid as young as possible. The earlier one starts the easier it is to instill a proper attitude and values.

 

I don't have to be a parent to know it's the toughest job on the planet and even the best make mistakes. But it is also by far the most bungled in the most severely idiotic and disgusting of ways, including people who unwisely decided to even become one in the first place (or again).

 

 

 

lastly, generation x is sick of your bullchit (you will probably have to edit the link in your address bar from "bulltaco" to, you know..)

I think/hope that's a sarcastic/tongue-in-cheek piece.

Edited November 17, 2011 by BeeR

[The Irish Doggy]

lastly, generation x is sick of your bullchit (you will probably have to edit the link in your address bar from "bulltaco" to, you know..)

 

Great article.

[Pope Flick]

I don't think it's fair to cite the 20 year olds for lack of leadership. I'm 42, and who in our generation was a spokeperson 20 years ago? At this point it's OUR generation that should be taking on the mantle of leadership, and we're only at the point where they're beginning to step forward: Obama's a touch old to be in 'my generation' and the politicians my age are still rising on the federal level.

 

Frankly, it's the lack of forsight from the last 15-20 years on both sides that's gotten us to where we are today. But both of 'those sides' in charge have mainly been the boomers by and large.

 

There are EXACTLY 4 US Senators that are in my generation, and another half dozen close. So, we're not even able to pull the strings on anything more than a local level, which is generally what none of us debate here, it's national stuff. And on that, the Boomers are still large and in charge, there's no debate.

[Yukon Cornelius]

the Boomers are still large and in charge, there's no debate.

yup

[Pope Flick]

I do feel we have taken our moral culture for granted, and are bearing the fruits of that negligence. the entitlement mentality of the OWS generation is but one clear example.

 

lastly, generation x is sick of your bullchit (you will probably have to edit the link in your address bar from "bulltaco" to, you know..)

 

 

"Its parents were too busy fulfilling their own personal ambitions to notice any of its trophies-which were admittedly few and far between because they were only awarded for victories, not participation."

 

 

Nice.

[Boilerduff]

:applause:

 

Parents like you are very much an endangered species SEC but again nice to know you're not extinct just yet. What you said should be a 1+1=2 level of common sense but it's amazing how many don't get it or insist much of what you said is wrong. No TV or PC in the room? Make them do chores? Can't "hide out" in their room all day? Set high standards for your kids vs a "whatever" attitude? Be a parent instead of a buddy? gasp. I esp applaud working on the kid as young as possible. The earlier one starts the easier it is to instill a proper attitude and values.

 

I don't have to be a parent to know it's the toughest job on the planet and even the best make mistakes. But it is also by far the most bungled in the most severely idiotic and disgusting of ways, including people who unwisely decided to even become one in the first place (or again).

 

 

+1000 I sometimes wonder if I am being to hard on my daughter, but then realize I just sound exactly like my parents did. i turned out ok, she should too. Scary stuff though, being responsible for setting the direction of another human being. Just gotta do your best and hope it all sticks!

 

Good luck to us all!

[billay]

lastly, generation x is sick of your bullchit (you will probably have to edit the link in your address bar from "bulltaco" to, you know..)

[Rovers]

Kids in my neighborhood address me by my first name. No MR. or Mrs. anymore. Their parents (many of them) curse like sailors, and so do their kids. Cops show up for domestic disputes at alarming frequency.

 

Things are VERY changed since my childhood. The parents buy them cars while they are still in high school, new cars... I bought my old clunker on money I made washing dishes.

 

These kids have a very high sense of entitlement. It's one thing to want a child to have more than a parent did, but it's swung way too far over IMO. I see these young people at OWC, and wonder, just what is their complaint? Not enough entitlements?

[detlef]

I think the "kids these days" shtick is a total cop-out. I blame it on the "grandparents these days". My parents generation. That was the generation that was too busy to raise their kids and it set this whole thing in motion. That was the generation that seemed to ramp up the speed at which we started using crap up. That was the last generation to have a higher quality of life than the previous. And it's not because they tried harder than us, it's that they were the last generation who had the luxury of having something left for them by the previous one. That was the generation that ruined beer in America, ours is the one that revived it. That was the generation that ruined food in America, ours is the one that may save it.

 

From there, you've got people who raised themselves either disillusioned with the entire notion of family and not having kids or people who have no idea how to do it lacking proper role models from the previous generation. And now you've some combo of people trying too hard and over parenting or just going through the motions because that's basically how it was for them.

 

I remember thinking what a crock "respect your elders" was once I looked at who my "elders" were. They were too busy jerking off to do much to give me anything to respect. (Disclosure: My grandparents seemed like really great people but the last of them died when I was six, so I don't have much to go on. However, I do remember meeting many impressive people of that generation).

 

However, Most of the people who are older than me whom I've ever been at all impressed with were maybe 10-15 years older than me so they're not exactly the generation before me.