Chavez Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What is asinine is not calling anyone on being a hypocrite. Feel free to call out anyone on the left. If they're truly being a hypocrite, they should take heat. What we shouldn't do is just shrug our shoulders and ignore it. Assuming you are correct. Assuming every candidate is a hypocrite in some fashion. Rather than just assuming they all cancel each other out, wouldn't it be wise to determine to what degree they are? And in what capacity? In football, offsetting penalties don't have to be equal to cancel each other out. This isn't football. Not saying that Newt's deal here is any worse than whatever you want to point out about Obama. Just saying that we shouldn't just ignore it when one or the other is caught in this manner and assume it's going to be canceled out by a similar indiscretion on the other side of the isle. Well said. As others have said above, I don't really have too big of an issue with Gingrich apparently being a tuurrrbllle husband (there's probably an argument to be made that an unprincipled failure of a human being could be a VERY effective legislator), and to be perfectly honest I have no idea where he stands on gay marriage. But to not even bring Gingrich's principles and/or platform into it, HIS PARTY is ALWAYS trumpeting the sancitity of marriage. But then they trot out this guy, and start whitewashing his trainwreck of a marital record? I guess it speaks to the principles of the GOP - "these are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 More than one God ? no offense but dont think i can answer back with much if you believe this I will say that Morality is based on love and respect ...trule love and true respect ...so in your example , I may not agree with homosexuality but i wont condemn homesexuals nor judge them for sure . I will respect them as human beings created same as me by 1 God ( my belief is there is only 1 God ) That's sort of my point. Not everyone is in the same church as you. There are good and morel people who don't believe in any god. There are good and moral people whose vision of god is different than yours. And I've seen enough of your posts both here and on FB to believe that you're a good an moral man. But let's not pretend that there aren't plenty. And by plenty, I mean enough to create legislation and be a topic in presidential debates, that are more than happy to stand between two consenting adults in the name of god and commit, what I believe, to be a sin. That being, telling two people who they may and may not love or, at very least, tell them they are less than the rest of us for loving the person they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I guess it speaks to the principles of the GOP - "these are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others." or "if you pay me enough i will change my principles" this with a fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Are you HAPPY Obama has ties with Ayers? Who is Ayers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Who is Ayers? A m00slim Kenyan communist that makes fake birth certificates. You wouldnt know him. . . . i hope. Edited January 23, 2012 by bpwallace49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 We only get one chance at life on this earth....it is entirely up to ourselves to make the choices we feel will bring us happiness and fulfilment. People will judge you every day of your life for almost every decision you will make...it's up to us on how we choose to react to judgement. My thought is that people are entirely selfish and will do whatever it takes to better their situation...and if that means divorcing your sick spouse because you feel it will better your life, then who are we to say that is immoral? I don't think that would be the decision I would make, but I have to realize that it's possible for others to feel that way. Morality is an entirely subjective concept. I disagree... While it is indeed a subjective concept, I think that acting selflessly (even if it does bring the actor some satisfaction, is still noble) is at the root of morality.... I mean, if you're looking for a good moral commish, what is the #1 requirement: that they be as objective as possible, and leave their own self-interest out of their ruling... Since I can now see that this thread is most likely about Gingrich, then I'd say that a man running for a position far more consequential than our FF commissioners, should indeed show integrity that he's going to act on the best interest of the American people, and not in one's own self-interest... So not only does that draw into question the integrity he didn't show in his marital affairs, it's even more damning in my mind the Freedie/Fannie "position" and on-job ethical concerns... The marital stuff only puts an exclamation point on that (particularly when you run on "family values") To those who like Gingrich . . . . how happy are you that he has been in the pocket of Freddie and Fannie as an "advisor"? Who likes Gingrich? Even republicans by and large don't, but it's clear they're currently in "Anyone but Obama (as long as it's not Paul)" mode, and are just looking for the candidate least likely to collapse (who will still lose to Obama anyway, since all of those candidates draw swing-voters like I do supermodels) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Who is Ayers? Really? Ayers is a self described communist and the co-founder of the Weather Underground which was a far left terrorist organization responsible for several domestic bombings. He and his wife were the leaders of this violent organization. He was also the guy that held a fund raiser for Obama that launched his political career that made big news when Robert Gibbs flat out denied it. Ayers just recently actually confirmed this himself. Obama ran from him in the last campaign when the news broke but he personally knows him from his Chicago days. Ayers has written a book or two and has never really shown any remorse. He is but one character Obama and his minions ran away from last campaign and for the most part the press look past this interesting character in Obama's recent past. Even Clinton tried to bring him up so it wasn't just the right calling into Obama's Character and his far left associations. Bernardine Dohrn is his wife and was the principle signatory in the Undergrounds Declaration of War against the United States. Ayers and Dohrn used Christine Louise Douglas and Anthony J. Lee as aliases in the past. Plenty of information on Bill Ayers out there. Weather Underground Edited January 24, 2012 by Ice1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojanmojo Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Really? Ayers is a self described communist and the co-founder of the Weather Underground which was a far left terrorist organization responsible for several domestic bombings. He and his wife were the leaders of this violent organization. He was also the guy that held a fund raiser for Obama that launched his political career that made big news when Robert Gibbs flat out denied it. Ayers just recently actually confirmed this himself. Obama ran from him in the last campaign when the news broke but he personally knows him from his Chicago days. Ayers has written a book or two and has never really shown any remorse. He is but one character Obama and his minions ran away from last campaign and for the most part the press look past this interesting character in Obama's recent past. Even Clinton tried to bring him up so it wasn't just the right calling into Obama's Character and his far left associations. Bernardine Dohrn is his wife and was the principle signatory in the Undergrounds Declaration of War against the United States. Ayers and Dohrn used Christine Louise Douglas and Anthony J. Lee as aliases in the past. Plenty of information on Bill Ayers out there. Weather Underground There's really nothing there with Ayers..and no, Obama knew Ayers professionally but in terms of knowing him personally? Not so - Snopes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 There's really nothing there with Ayers..and no, Obama knew Ayers professionally but in terms of knowing him personally? Not so - Snopes I suppose you think it's clever, pointing out yet another pack of talk radio lies. Well, it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) There's really nothing there with Ayers..and no, Obama knew Ayers professionally but in terms of knowing him personally? Not so - Snopes As stated, Ayers himself just recently confirmed the event and I am sure you could find it with a Google search in his own words, so forgive me if I don't comment much on a Snopes report last updated in 2008 as your proof source. They were correct that "the some guy in the neighborhood" also served on the same "Board of Directors" with Obama. BTW, I never claimed they were friends and was simply answering who he was for the one that asked the question. Edited January 24, 2012 by Ice1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I suppose you think it's clever, pointing out yet another pack of talk radio lies. Well, it's not. Well here is a fairly in depth CNN interview. Does CNN somehow count as a pack of talk radio lies? Edit to include actual CNN Link Edited January 24, 2012 by Ice1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) There's really nothing there with Ayers..and no, Obama knew Ayers professionally but in terms of knowing him personally? Not so - Snopes We will be hearing a bunch of Have to agree here socialism propaganda here again soon if people are still gullible enough to believe this crap. Edited January 24, 2012 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 And what about that birth certificate?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 from today: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 And what about that birth certificate?? Probably filed away Like Gingrich's divorce decree. All these immoral people, getting divorced, hanging with old terrorists at meetings and blaming everyone else all the time. Lets not vote based on moral grounds....President....we don't need no stinking President. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 from today: Yup, that pretty much says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yup, that pretty much says it all. Sad, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Really? Ayers is a self described communist and the co-founder of the Weather Underground which was a far left terrorist organization responsible for several domestic bombings. He and his wife were the leaders of this violent organization. He was also the guy that held a fund raiser for Obama that launched his political career that made big news when Robert Gibbs flat out denied it. Ayers just recently actually confirmed this himself. Obama ran from him in the last campaign when the news broke but he personally knows him from his Chicago days. Ayers has written a book or two and has never really shown any remorse. He is but one character Obama and his minions ran away from last campaign and for the most part the press look past this interesting character in Obama's recent past. Even Clinton tried to bring him up so it wasn't just the right calling into Obama's Character and his far left associations. Bernardine Dohrn is his wife and was the principle signatory in the Undergrounds Declaration of War against the United States. Ayers and Dohrn used Christine Louise Douglas and Anthony J. Lee as aliases in the past. Plenty of information on Bill Ayers out there. Weather Underground So, from a moralists perspective, how do you tie Ayers into this conversation, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 So, from a moralists perspective, how do you tie Ayers into this conversation, exactly? swift boat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) So, from a moralists perspective, how do you tie Ayers into this conversation, exactly? 1) The only reason I even brought him was because you didn't know who he was and asked a question, which I answered. Obviously, those on the left immediately jumped in with some defense of Obama. 2) I never once said Obama liked him in anyway and only said he ran from him in the last campaign which was quite smart given he had known and worked with him for years. As for Morality, I give it about as much credence as those who somehow think that because Gingrich divorced and remarried, he is not moral. The reality is no one knows what kind of relationship Gingrich had with his wives, only that they obviously were not compatible and split. By the same token, Obama knew who Ayers was, yet kept on working with him. Neither instance has anything to do with morality and neither instance was illegal. Do I think, both made bad choices, yes. Does either instance make them not qualified to be President; no. What I do see in this thread is people blasting a guy for failed relationships somehow equating this to a party as if only the GOP believes in the sanctity of marriage even though we see a marriage failure rate upwards of 50% then come to defense of a President that associated with an individual that was the co-founder of a group that bombed government buildings and went as far as declaring war on our Country and those same individuals coming to his defense using time as a defense. Problem here is people are somehow equating Moral arguments as opposed to Judgement arguments. Did both show bad judgment? Yes. Are either immoral? No. (That is my view) As far as who I would vote for, and hopefully most Americans, that choice would and should be based on policy because in the end, who someone slept with or someone hung around with is not as important as their political philosophy. No doubt time changes people and in both cases we see have seen change. Bottom line, some people will not vote for Gingrich because he was divorced and had marriage issues and people won't vote for Obama because he had questionable relationships with Ayers and Wright who through actions and words have condemned America. In my view, both are pretty stupid arguments and neither really have anything to do with morality. I will leave it you to decide which situation may have more impact on political philosophy. BTW, neither are pro Gay Marriage. Both are pro civil unions. Neither has a shot at a constitutional amendment on either side of the issue. I could care less on this as it is a religious / state issue, not a federal issue. On a side note, how in the hell did you not know who Ayers was? Clinton and Palin were blasting Obama last cycle. Edited January 24, 2012 by Ice1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 As far as who I would vote for, and hopefully most Americans, that choice would and should be based on policy because in the end, who someone slept with or someone hung around with is not as important as their political philosophy. Good God, the sky is falling. This is the second time I've agreed with you in less than 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) As for Morality, I give it about as much credence as those who somehow think that because Gingrich divorced and remarried, he is not moral. The reality is no one knows what kind of relationship Gingrich had with his wives, only that they obviously were not compatible and split. By the same token, Obama knew who Ayers was, yet kept on working with him. If it were jsut about the marriages themselves, it wouldn't be as big of a deal (although leaving one wife when she had cancer, and then leaving the next one when she had MS and refused an open marriage, certainly doesn't look good)... But it contributes to a pattern, when Gingrich is employed by Freddie-Mac to a position he can't even state what he actually did for them, in a clear conflict of interest. And no, it doesn't make someone any less qualified to be president, but we've sure had enough "qualified" folks who abuse their policitcal position for kick-backs from passing pork and BS bills for their cronies... In that respect, the fact that he was getting millions from Freddie and Fannie at the time he was supposed to be legislating them, is far more damning towards his "morality" or lack thereof... The marital affairs only put an exclamation point on the evidence that he puts himself first, not America first, which is absolutely not what we need right now. The corporate cronyism is a big part of what's gotten us into this wasteful mess.... Edited January 24, 2012 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 . The corporate cronyism is a big part of what's gotten us into this wasteful mess.... bingo!!! but at least corporations are now people !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 In that respect, the fact that he was getting millions from Freddie and Fannie at the time he was supposed to be legislating them In fairness to Gingrich, that isn't true, so far as I know, He worked for FM Squared after he left the House. Of course, there's the accusation that while he was ranting about Washington insiders, he was one. Nevertheless, I am pretty sure he wasn't getting paid by them while he was Speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 In fairness to Gingrich, that isn't true, so far as I know, He worked for FM Squared after he left the House. Of course, there's the accusation that while he was ranting about Washington insiders, he was one. Nevertheless, I am pretty sure he wasn't getting paid by them while he was Speaker. My mistake. I thought it started while he was still a speaker, but appears to be right after his resignation... So I guess I'll just revert to the point that this, along with the marriages and many ethics charges while he was speaker, paint a pretty clear picture that Newt is the poster boy for the corrupt "establishment" that he now claims to be running against... Romney doesn't get a free pass on this either. He's received plenty of contributions from Freddy and Fanny himself, but at least that's no worse than most politicians... I have serious reservations about saying the same about Gingrich... To me, everything just points to him being a scummy scummy individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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