whomper Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I swear this pisses me off the more I hear it. The pats defense wouldnt have anything to do with the success the past 4 yrs. I suppose Trent Dilfer is also a better QB than Marino because he has a title, and Marino doesnt. When i think of Tom Brady I think of the weakest link on the team, who happens to play QB. Brady gets all the props for the win, when without that defense, Brady would be just another journeyman QB, imo. 834918[/snapback] Comparing Marino to Dilfer is not the same as comparing Marino to Brady..3 rings 2 superbowl MVPs. How can anyone deny that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd4Hire Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Troy Aikman is better at soccer than Peyton Manning 834857[/snapback] Yes but I bet Kurt Rambis looks better in goggles and Tom Brady. Even Brady couldn't do justice to Rambo's shades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Yes but I bet Kurt Rambis looks better in goggles and Tom Brady. Even Brady couldn't do justice to Rambo's shades. 835023[/snapback] I was just gonna say that..Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I suppose Trent Dilfer is also a better QB than Marino because he has a title, and Marino doesnt. 834918[/snapback] I don't know about that, but I would like to see Chris Collinsworth make that suggestion next year on the air with Marino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Comparing Marino to Dilfer is not the same as comparing Marino to Brady..3 rings 2 superbowl MVPs. How can anyone deny that ? 834963[/snapback] Denied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I agree whomper.You are very wise and I bow to you. 835107[/snapback] Thats not neccesary but Thanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 8, 2005 Author Share Posted June 8, 2005 Troy Aikman is better at soccer than Peyton Manning 834857[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I swear this pisses me off the more I hear it. The pats defense wouldnt have anything to do with the success the past 4 yrs. 834918[/snapback] Apparently some people still don't understand the concept of "team." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Are you kidding me??? What did he win before he got to Detroit? As far as AI is concerned anyone in the NBA can average 30-points a game when you put up 30-shots a game (at least you should be able to). Even mentioning Billups name with the likes of Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Oscar Robertson, Jason Kidd, Isiah Thomas is a joke. 834824[/snapback] and Kidd has done what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 IF the Pistons win the NBA finals, and perhaps Chauncey Billups is named the MVP again, is he the best point guard in the NBA? Is he one of the best point guards in NBA history? Or is he just a good field general on a great team? Kinda like Tom Brady? Something to think about. 834509[/snapback] And, hey, we all know that Scott Brosius is a better third baseman than A-Rod because he has three rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stimer Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Brady - 3 SB Rings Marino - Laces were in I'll take Brady, thanks. 834902[/snapback] The only difference between Brady and Marino is that Marino would have put up better stats in Brady's situation and at the end of Brady's career the only stats he will have that surpass Marino's are Post-season stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men In Tights Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 and Kidd has done what? 835742[/snapback] I know this could turn into a debate just like who is better Brady or Manning. Kidd did lead the Nets to the conference Finals 2-years in a row and lost to superior teams in SA and Lakers. Billups is not a better PG than Kidd just because he won 1-title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATL|Falc0n Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 You guys, you guys...forgetting Horry's FIVE rings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 us new englanders will continue to praise and defend our quarterback...and you guys in indy can do the same,while blaming every colt on the roster in the last 6 years for their playoff shortcomings, except peyton....and well both go our happy seperate ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 ??? Manning blew the AFC Championship in 2003. I've said it before and I'll say it again. My point is that there is a lot more that makes New England tick than Brady. He is good. But he is not the sole reason they've won 3 SB's. And having 3 SB rings does not make him the best QB in the league, just as it does not make Matt Light the best left tackle, or Troy Brown the best WR. They are just a darn good T E A M. By the way FIDTML, what do you think about Seymour's hold-out? Marcus Stroud doesn't do that. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 ??? Manning blew the AFC Championship in 2003. I've said it before and I'll say it again. 839455[/snapback] Agreed, although the way the refs allowed NE's D to manhandle Indy's WRs and TEs didn't help either. But, yes, Peyton panicked and tried to do too much after his defense got run over on the first drive. Then again, when Manning played intelligently and conservatively this past January, Stokley, Clark, Mungro, and most of their offensive line played terribly. I don't see how any team that's built around the pass and has a below-average defense is going to survive a game against Belichik's defense in a snowstorm. The Colts simply aren't built to win in that type of environment. The only way that they're going to get to the SB is to keep home-field advantage throughout the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 ??? Manning blew the AFC Championship in 2003. I've said it before and I'll say it again. My point is that there is a lot more that makes New England tick than Brady. He is good. But he is not the sole reason they've won 3 SB's. And having 3 SB rings does not make him the best QB in the league, just as it does not make Matt Light the best left tackle, or Troy Brown the best WR. They are just a darn good T E A M. By the way FIDTML, what do you think about Seymour's hold-out? Marcus Stroud doesn't do that. . . 839455[/snapback] well i didnt say he blew the 03 afc title game..im just saying..his loyal supporters seem to point the blame everywhere else...just as you accuse many pats fans as giving tom too much credit nationally...people either love him and say hes in peytons league or they call him a product of the patriots brand of football..while certainly im not going to tell you that every patriots, at their respective positions, are the best in the league...brady and richard seymour are top level talents...and sometimes that whole "patriots" notion blinds people to that fact as far as big sey...hes making a little statement.. come time for camp..hell be there....he wants to be here...hes not really in the same position as tom..tom knows the money will be coming long after football...but theres something said for being a legend in the new england area, and richard has at least a shot of being a hall of famer so when is marcus stroud going to display some versatility and play end in the 3-4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 14, 2005 Author Share Posted June 14, 2005 (edited) as far as big sey...hes making a little statement.. come time for camp..hell be there....he wants to be here...hes not really in the same position as tom..tom knows the money will be coming long after football...but theres something said for being a legend in the new england area, and richard has at least a shot of being a hall of famer so when is marcus stroud going to display some versatility and play end in the 3-4? 840093[/snapback] No need, since the Jags don't run a 3-4, and he has been dominant at his position. Plus, he doesn't hold out making "statements". I also find it interesting that the Pats didn't miss a beat with such a dominant player in street clothes with a knee injury. That says even more about the Pats system. Edited June 14, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stimer Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 No need, since the Jags don't run a 3-4, and he has been dominant at his position. Plus, he doesn't hold out making "statements". I also find it interesting that the Pats didn't miss a beat with such a dominant player in street clothes with a knee injury. That says even more about the Pats system. 840717[/snapback] Oh come on Hook ... you know its gotta be all Brady. Just like ATL Falcon so validly backed it up with the NBA argument of why the Spurs are winning the series so far ... Robert Horry. The team concept didn't have anything to do with it ... so they didn't have their star DB, so they had a WR playing DB, so they had some guys playing DB who were hardly known before, so they have one of the best coaches (if not the best) coach in the league, so they finally got a decent RB this year, so they had a solid LB core ... isn't Brady awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 No need, since the Jags don't run a 3-4, and he has been dominant at his position. Plus, he doesn't hold out making "statements". I also find it interesting that the Pats didn't miss a beat with such a dominant player in street clothes with a knee injury. That says even more about the Pats system. 840717[/snapback] yeah the pats didnt miss a beat with big sey on the sidelines...i guess hes not really valuable..i guess hes not a premier defensive lineman...i figure he went to the pro bowl 3 out of his first 4 years in the league off reputation hook, i think you tend to forget that seymour played nose his rookie year..and was a force..he made the pro bowl playing defensive tackle in a 4-3 base... do you really think they moved seymour out in the 3-4 because he cant dominant inside? cant dominate like marcus stroud? cmon stroud already has a deal worth 5-6 mil a year..and thats seymours gripe..seymour has been producing since 2001...stroud came finally came into his own in 03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 15, 2005 Author Share Posted June 15, 2005 (edited) hook, i think you tend to forget that seymour played nose his rookie year..and was a force..he made the pro bowl playing defensive tackle in a 4-3 base... 841606[/snapback] He didn't make the Pro Bowl his rookie year. A force? He wasn't even on the All Rookie Team. Corey Simon and Chris Hovan were. I'm not saying he's not a good player. I just find it interesting that the Patriots didn't even miss a beat without him. Stroud had more solo tackles and sacks in '02. Stroud had more tackles in '03 and '04. Stroud has never missed a game. Seymour has missed 5 games. In his career, Stroud has more tackles. He only has 6 less sacks, despite playing tackle almost exclusively. Seymour got moved to end because the Pats drafted Wilfork. Edited June 15, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 He didn't make the Pro Bowl his rookie year. A force? He wasn't even on the All Rookie Team. Corey Simon and Chris Hovan were. I'm not saying he's not a good player. I just find it interesting that the Patriots didn't even miss a beat without him. Stroud had more solo tackles and sacks in '02. Stroud had more tackles in '03 and '04. Stroud has never missed a game. Seymour has missed 5 games. In his career, Stroud has more tackles. He only has 6 less sacks, despite playing tackle almost exclusively. Seymour got moved to end because the Pats drafted Wilfork. 841964[/snapback] hook, seymour was voted on the pro football weekly all rookie team..so his efforts did not go unnoticed yeah the patriots didnt miss a beat without him..they didnt miss a beat without ty law..they won like 7 games witout deion branch in 04...the eagles didnt really miss a beat w/out terrell owens either...i dont think the pats winning without big sey says anything about his level of talent again...i dont really value sheer stats when evaluating defensive lineman...seymour isnt a prototypical end..in the pats scheme..hes there to take on lineman..the pats 3-4 scheme is really geared towards the linebackers getting at the quarterback when they switched to 4-3 in superbowl 39..he moved back inside...registered a sack..batted down 2 passes and bloodied mcnabbs chin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stimer Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 hook, seymour was voted on the pro football weekly all rookie team..so his efforts did not go unnoticed yeah the patriots didnt miss a beat without him..they didnt miss a beat without ty law..they won like 7 games witout deion branch in 04...the eagles didnt really miss a beat w/out terrell owens either...i dont think the pats winning without big sey says anything about his level of talent again...i dont really value sheer stats when evaluating defensive lineman...seymour isnt a prototypical end..in the pats scheme..hes there to take on lineman..the pats 3-4 scheme is really geared towards the linebackers getting at the quarterback when they switched to 4-3 in superbowl 39..he moved back inside...registered a sack..batted down 2 passes and bloodied mcnabbs chin 842073[/snapback] How did the Pats get so lucky to get both the best QB ever and the best inside/outside DE ever??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 (edited) How did the Pats get so lucky to get both the best QB ever and the best inside/outside DE ever??? 842243[/snapback] haha you people still amaze me...richard seymour is easily one of the top 3 defensive lineman in the game..i would rank him on top..i didnt say he was the "greatest" or the "best" ever.......tom brady is one of the top 2 qbs in the game..where you wanna put him is up to you, i dont care just get over it people..yes the patriots are the best coached "team" in the game...that doesnt mean they are incapable of having a premier player or two on their roster..jesus christ..get that through your skull see the difference is..when im arguing with captain hook..im arguing that seymour is more polished and a more versatile defensive lineman than marcus stroud...thus making him more valuable...but i understand that captain hook has an appreciation for big seys talent when arguing with someone like 1st timer...im talking to an idiot so clueless that he cant fathom any patriot player could be a top tier player, because he buys so much into the patriots 'team' notion Edited June 15, 2005 by forever in debt to mo lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stimer Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 (edited) that doesnt mean they are incapable of having a premier player or two on their roster842295[/snapback] A "premier player" isn't necessarily a "great" player ... ie - Corey Dillon ... everyone knew he was a good RB, however, if he would have been playing for the Patsies for the last five years or so then people would say he is "great" ... WRONG ... A "GREAT" RB is someone like Barry Sanders who played on an absolutely pitiful team yet struck fear in every defense that had to face him. What if Barry Sanders had been on a team that won 3 SB's would anyone ever say he wasn't the better RB ever? I doubt it. This whole argument about Brady being the best is crap and that is why I have been using sarcasm. As far as Seymour goes ... he is good, sure, but when people start singing his praises who aren't Patsies fans then other people will pay attention. Edited June 15, 2005 by 1stimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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