Bill Swerski Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I am asking you the same question that I asked Sarge here. Can you show me where the league admitted making a mistake in this game? Because if you can't then it's irrelevant to this discussion. Specifically what I asked is, does the league admitting that they botched a call that led to a Colts TD and changed the outcome of the game change the way people feel about the victory. Ty Law came on ESPN radio after the '03 AFC Championship Game and admitted that Belichick instructed them to hold the Colts WRs (and there's plenty of visual evidence that they carried out his orders). Hell, the league basically "admitted" that their refs were ignoring blatant instances of PI and illegal contact with their increased "emphasis" on those penalties the following season. So, given that, my answer is "no." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 3rd and 7 from the 20 isn't unequivocally different from first and 10 on the 1? that's now what you said dumbass, you said it "unequivocally changed the outcome of the game". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 that's now what you said dumbass, you said it "unequivocally changed the outcome of the game". No I didn't, you frickin' moran. I said it would unequivocally have a game changing outcome. That means that the game, as in the plays that happened in the game that led to whatever outcome. When you want to quote someone, try to use the correct quote. Sometimes the order in which words appear change what they mean when you string them together. Ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ty Law came on ESPN radio after the '03 AFC Championship Game and admitted that Belichick instructed them to hold the Colts WRs (and there's plenty of visual evidence that they carried out his orders). Hell, the league basically "admitted" that their refs were ignoring blatant instances of PI and illegal contact with their increased "emphasis" on those penalties the following season. So, given that, my answer is "no." Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 No I didn't, you frickin' moran. I said it would unequivocally have a game changing outcome. That means that the game, as in the plays that happened in the game that led to whatever outcome. When you want to quote someone, try to use the correct quote. Sometimes the order in which words appear change what they mean when you string them together. Ass. well by that definition even the most minute ruling at every point in the game has a "game changing outcome"...."unequivocally", as it were. even if the ball is spotted a half yard short on a 4th and 15...that has an unequivocal effect on the "sequence of plays that led to whatever outcome". but i assumed you meant something not quite so retarded and obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 (edited) well by that definition even the most minute ruling at every point in the game has a "game changing outcome"...."unequivocally", as it were. even if the ball is spotted a half yard short on a 4th and 15...that has an unequivocal effect on the "sequence of plays that led to whatever outcome". but i assumed you meant something not quite so retarded and obvious. Why would you think that? EDIT: Seriously, though...basically gifting a team a TD is pretty big in terms of how a game plays out. That's not trying to say the Colts wouldn't still have won. The Pats were gassed at the end of that game. Edited January 26, 2007 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 basically gifting a team a TD ... that assumes the colts would not have scored there but for the call. given the way the second half played out, i do not think that is a sound assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 that assumes the colts would not have scored there but for the call. given the way the second half played out, i do not think that is a sound assumption. It assumes that in order to score that TD otherwise that more time would have been spent. Or that a FG would have been scored As the Colts took the lead with roughly 1 minute to play, that could have become a big factor. They might have had to settle for a FG in that situation to tie because of time considerations. I'm just saying that it makes the game very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerMurf Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 +1 Mistakes happen all the time in the NFL in regards to penalties. Sometimes they can cause a possible change in the dynamics of a game, and sometimes they don't seem to change much at all. But the fact is the winner of the game is just that -- the winner. If the Colts win the Super Bowl, then their SB victory is not tainted. I'm pretty sure we can go back and review the last 20 years of playoff runs and Super Bowl victories and be able to point out 'game changing' bad calls in over half of the last 20 years. At least we can be glad that any 'arguable call' during the Colts/Patriots playoff matchup didn't make the game boring. Last years Super Bowl was a bore-fest because of one arguable call after another, and I am praying to the football gods that they don't let the refs interfere with this years Super Bowl. Just remember, bad calls happen on occasion, but if they are not repeatedly dictating the "momentum" a team has throughout the game then we shouldn't really be considering a win as "tainted." I'm still crying about the Seahawks blowing the Superbowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 You have no idea how sweet it is seeing Pats fans cry about missed calls in a play-off game. Almost as good as getting the win. Almost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxfactor Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 3rd and 7 from the 20 isn't unequivocally different from first and 10 on the 1? I'd love to see that happen to the Broncos and hear your tune then. It's an irrefutable fact that, whatever the final score might have been, the route to get to that final score would be changed tremendously by that difference. And I am not complaining. I am asking a simple question. We have all talked about that being a very bad call that could have had impact on the outcome of the game. Does the league admitting that they botched it change the way people feel about it? Simple question. I agree that 1st and goal from the 1 is HUGH, but I think what Az was trying to point out that if it wasn't called it would have been 3rd and 7 from the 20. Maybe the Colts pick up the first down anyway and eventually score anyway. How are we to know? Maybe they kick a FG and they're down 21-16. Still a game at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Anyone notice that this is two years in a row with the Pats fans complaining about calls in a play-off loss? Funny how that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerMurf Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 You have no idea how sweet it is seeing Pats fans cry about missed calls in a play-off game. Almost as good as getting the win. Almost. Wonder if they will still be crying 11 months from now? Nah, they have a little bit of man in them Pats fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 You have no idea how sweet it is seeing Pats fans cry about missed calls in a play-off game. Almost as good as getting the win. Almost. Anyone notice that this is two years in a row with the Pats fans complaining about calls in a play-off loss? Funny how that works. Yer not that smart, are you? I am not crying. I couldn't admit in any more ways that the Colts deserved the win. What I am asking here is if the NFL's admission of this mistake changes other people's viewpoint on the game. And it's relevant. There were, like, a billion people on here last year that harped on and on about how the Steelers didn't deserve their superbowl because of the calls by the officials 'helping them'. This is some of the same, so I wanted to see what the reaction would be. I have yet to hear a single Pats fan say "We would have won if they didn't make that call". Truth be told, I have only seen us Pats fans congratulate the Colts fans and admit that our team lost. And you Colts fans are starting to look like bad winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I have yet to hear a single Pats fan say "We would have won if they didn't make that call". Check out some Pats message boards. Especially on boston.com . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 What I am asking here is if the NFL's admission of this mistake changes other people's viewpoint on the game. The NFL has not said the call was a mistake. Read the story again. It's a second-hand story from some guy that works for the NFL. It says that Dean Blandino from the league office confirmed that "face-guarding" was legal. He was in the booth at the game, and felt the wrong call had been made. That to me is not the NFL admitting they blew the call. Even though in my mind they did. Those kind of plays happen all the time in the middle of a game. To say it changed the game, while technically accurate, is also pretty weak. Like I said, they also missed two face-masking calls on kick-offs against the Pats, and several illegal contacts, all of which would have changed the game. Truth be told, I have only seen us Pats fans congratulate the Colts fans and admit that our team lost. And you Colts fans are starting to look like bad winners. Or the pats fans like sore losers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Yer not that smart, are you? I am not crying. I couldn't admit in any more ways that the Colts deserved the win. What I am asking here is if the NFL's admission of this mistake changes other people's viewpoint on the game. And it's relevant. There were, like, a billion people on here last year that harped on and on about how the Steelers didn't deserve their superbowl because of the calls by the officials 'helping them'. This is some of the same, so I wanted to see what the reaction would be. I have yet to hear a single Pats fan say "We would have won if they didn't make that call". Truth be told, I have only seen us Pats fans congratulate the Colts fans and admit that our team lost. And you Colts fans are starting to look like bad winners. You asked for an outside opinion, so, here it goes. I don't think Colts fans are being bad winners at all. I also think, for the most part, Pats fans are handling the loss very admirably. However, what you are doing here, in my mind, is whining about the officiating, but, trying to do so in an underhanded way. You basically are complaining with this post, but, every time you hear yourself doing it, you then add on that, you think the Colts deserved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 FWIW, there is no such thing as a perfectly called game, even with instant replay. Some you win, some you lose. Where there are humans, there will also be error. I guess I should have let Mr Cliche post this but it's true nevertheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 It doesn't taint their win in any way. Every game has these calls. Refs. are human and see things in real time. It's easy to second guess a call when you're looking at it at 1/25th. the speed it actually happened. I think Instant replay is a good thing to have but, as previously stated, if we're going to have it then expand it's use. If we're going to second guess the refs. on calls why not do it in all situations. I know it slows down the game and so-forth but keep the same amount of challenges and expand on what you can challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 Check out some Pats message boards. Especially on boston.com . I am talking about Pats fans here. If you want to go throw that in the face of Pats fans on Boston.com, be my guest. As fot most of the Huddle pats fans (and you know which ones aren;t included in most ), I think we have accepted that it's at least mostly our team's fault for not performing, and that far outweighs any external factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 You asked for an outside opinion, so, here it goes. I don't think Colts fans are being bad winners at all. I also think, for the most part, Pats fans are handling the loss very admirably. However, what you are doing here, in my mind, is whining about the officiating, but, trying to do so in an underhanded way. You basically are complaining with this post, but, every time you hear yourself doing it, you then add on that, you think the Colts deserved it. How did I know that mentioning the Steelers in that post would get you into the thread You can have that opinion. Funny thing is that, if you noice the little discussion with Bill S, he gave an opinion, and I think my response was "fair enough". I am curious as to how acknowlegement from the NFL affects people's perceptions. If the NFL came out and admitted to 5-6 majorly botched calls that went in favor of the Steelers on the way to their SB victory last year, you don't think there would be an opinion uproar? There's one without that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 It doesn't taint their win in any way. Every game has these calls. Refs. are human and see things in real time. It's easy to second guess a call when you're looking at it at 1/25th. the speed it actually happened. I think Instant replay is a good thing to have but, as previously stated, if we're going to have it then expand it's use. If we're going to second guess the refs. on calls why not do it in all situations. I know it slows down the game and so-forth but keep the same amount of challenges and expand on what you can challenge. A real opinion! Someone gets it! Thanks JG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 the NFL does better when players like Manning and Tomlinson don't win the SB... this gives them a chance to market the elite players....and also the players who win the superbowl... the last explosive team to win the SB was the Rams.... the rest were all won mainly due to defense...at least since 1999...however, the Rams had a top 3 defense in 99...and the Broncos had a very good defense in their wins.. I think we're starting to see the blueprint to winning the superbowl... and the way the last 6 or 7 superbowls have gone...I'd expect the Bears to win because their defense is superior.... teams with a pretty-good defense and great offense don't win it all anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I am not crying. sure coulda fooled me, mr. unequivocal-game-changing-outcome-without-unequivocally-changing-the-outcome-of-the-game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) You can have that opinion. Funny thing is that, if you noice the little discussion with Bill S, he gave an opinion, and I think my response was "fair enough". I'm happy that we were able to discuss this issue in a civil manner, but I have to agree with Menudo that your "Does this tarnish the Colts win?" question was meant to ruffle feathers. I don't even understand why a Pats fan would ask that, given what happened in the '03 AFC Championship Game and the ensuing Point of Emphasis (where the league basically admitted that the refs blew SEVERAL calls that game). I can understand why you would be upset about those calls last Sunday, but you're coming off as a sore loser here. Edited January 27, 2007 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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