Ursa Majoris Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) :violin: Christ, Perch, stop it will ya? I'm all and everything. I won't sleep tonight thinking of all the company executives lying there in their cardboard boxes on Skid Row, waiting for a handout from the gubmint soup kitchen. Edited January 31, 2006 by Ursa Majoris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 :violin: Christ, Perch, stop it will ya? I'm all and everything. I won't sleep tonight thinking of all the company executives lying there in their cardboard boxes on Skid Row, waiting for a handout from the gubmint soup kitchen. 1298219[/snapback] the only people are the ninnies like lulu and atomic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Sorry Ursa, I was just trying to be about as idiotic ans Atomic is being, though while hyperbole most of what I said has merit. I guess being a business owner and knowing the headaches that it entails, and having to deal with regulation, the theat of litigation, and people always concerned with what "you" are making gives me a little bit different perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 the only people are the ninnies like lulu and atomic 1298231[/snapback] Not the oil executives, then? Phew, that's a relief. I was going to start a charity for them, since they've done so much for us and are now fallen on hard times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Not the oil executives, then? Phew, that's a relief. I was going to start a charity for them, since they've done so much for us and are now fallen on hard times. 1298236[/snapback] yup those 3 million dollor bonuses when laying off thousands and cutting pay are hard on those fellows... there only looking out for this country yah know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Defending the poor oil execs. I'll have to remember that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Seriously though, if some of you get your way and keep taxing, regulationg and litigating the hell our of us before long all the profit motive will be gone and allong with it all the entrepreneurs, leaving only the big corporations and the government as alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Sorry Ursa, I was just trying to be about as idiotic ans Atomic is being, though while hyperbole most of what I said has merit. I guess being a business owner and knowing the headaches that it entails, and having to deal with regulation, the theat of litigation, and people always concerned with what "you" are making gives me a little bit different perspective. 1298235[/snapback] Let me reiterate for the thousandth time that I work for a private company too, as you know. Our owner has a very upscale home here in Minneaplois and an even nicer one in Hawaii. He is a millionaire umpteen times over. I do not begrudge him a penny - he is the owner and he pays me well, is a good man, does a ton of charity stuff and shares the profits. I do however have a problem with executives that now "earn" 900 times the money the lowest paid of the employees earns when that ratio was 90, 150, 200 times as much a few short years ago. These "executives" are NOT owners (and therefore not the risktakers you rightly admire so much), they are just employees the same as the janitor. Their rewards are received whether or not the company does well, in large measure. Executive "pay" is one of the great scandals of our time. Check out Northwest Airlines and the way it has been run into the ground by a series of buffoons supposedly managing it. How many of those buffoons are now living by the side of the railroad tracks? None - while the regular workers take the fall for their failures, these leeches are feather bedded so that failure for them just means less millions - but it's still millions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 government imposed caps on gas prices REALLY worked well in the 70s, didn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) And one other thing - you've often said that the "shareholders" won't stand for it. Wrong - they're all insurance companies, mutual funds and other monoliths and they're all in the same game - grabbing as much for themselves as they can under the guise of executive benefits, including golden parachutes for those that make a monumental f*ck up of it. Edited January 31, 2006 by Ursa Majoris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I do however have a problem with executives that now "earn" 900 times the money the lowest paid of the employees earns when that ratio was 90, 150, 200 times as much a few short years ago. There you go folks, a true red to the bone communist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I do however have a problem with executives that now "earn" 900 times the money the lowest paid of the employees earns when that ratio was 90, 150, 200 times as much a few short years ago. 1298247[/snapback] what the f*ck gives you the right to "have a problem" with what ANY company pays any employee unless you own their stock? f'n commie assumptions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 There you go folks, a true red to the bone communist. 1298260[/snapback] There you go folks, a complete mug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 what the f*ck gives you the right to "have a problem" with what ANY company pays any employee unless you own their stock? f'n commie assumptions 1298261[/snapback] Own their stock? Who do you think owns the stock? Insurance companies, mutual funds and other very large investors, that's who. And all of them run by people who are in the exact same game of shaving more and more off for themselves. Hardly going to upset each other's applecarts are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 one thing...not sure if it was mentioned.... oil futures are traded on a free market system at the nymex....speculators, traders, and others buy or sell depending on opec, supply, world affairs.... i agree oil companies are making a ton of money...but they are not responsible for the price of oil!! we are based on capitalism, i dont see how taxing a company because it does well is very american...something needs to be done about the system, not the companies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 (edited) Ursa, I can actually agree with you to a point on the execs, however anything you do punatively to the companies, like you said will not really affect the execs, but it will affect the share holders. Who do you think owns the mutual funds, have you looked at your 401K lately. Unfortunately good execs are hard to find and expensive. I think their wages are inflated, but I also believe in supply and demand, and if there is that much demand there must be a short supply of qualified people. That is probably why you don't see execs staying at one place for very long. Unfortunately people look and see that exec Joe Blow worked for a company bigger than theirs, so he must be able to work for them, and they pay them more than they are worth, which in a sense artificially raises the wages of all execs. I don't know what the answer for this is, but I seriously doubt it is regulation. Edited January 31, 2006 by Perchoutofwater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I can actually agree with you to a point on the execs, however anything you do punatively to the companies, like you said will not really affect the execs, but it will affect the share holders. Who do you think owns the mutual funds, have you looked at your 401K lately. Unfortunately good execs are hard to find and expensive. I think their wages are inflated, but I also believe in supply and demand, and if there is that much demand there must be a short supply of qualified people. That is probably why you don't see execs staying at one place for very long. Unfortunately people look and see that exec Joe Blow worked for a company bigger than theirs, so he must be able to work for them, and they pay them more than they are worth, which in a sense artificially raises the wages of all execs. I don't know what the answer for this is, but I seriously doubt it is regulation. 1298267[/snapback] I'm not suggesting regulation. I am suggesting the thing is a shell game. That's why they keep switching from job to job like so many NBA athletes. There's a signing bonus, a 'chute if it all goes to hell in a handcart, stock options (at low, low prices) and all the rest. Sure my 401k is packed with mutual funds, but that has no effect on the funds turning a blind eye to executive excess since the mutual funds execs are doing exactly the same thing. Bottom line - if CEO pay has increased from 200 times the janitor's wage to 900 times the janitor's wage - and I believe you'll find that's pretty accurate, certainly in principle - why is there more bleating than ever before about the tax burden on the rich? Why isn't it the janitor making the most noise, since CEOs pay went up four and a half times more than janitors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Bottom line - if CEO pay has increased from 200 times the janitor's wage to 900 times the janitor's wage - and I believe you'll find that's pretty accurate, certainly in principle - why is there more bleating than ever before about the tax burden on the rich? Why isn't it the janitor making the most noise, since CEOs pay went up four and a half times more than janitors? 1298277[/snapback] Because the janitor hasn't made a dime for Exxon, but the executive has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I support the Middle East making as much money off us as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Own their stock? Who do you think owns the stock? Insurance companies, mutual funds and other very large investors, that's who. And all of them run by people who are in the exact same game of shaving more and more off for themselves. Hardly going to upset each other's applecarts are they? 1298264[/snapback] it's not good business to pay someone more than their worth, and it's bad business more than anything that will "upset each other's applecarts". you're dam right investors, fund managers and the like care whether a company is paying far more for talent than it needs to. CEO salaries are ridiculous because of pervading myths and assumptions within the business world...if those assumptions are wrong, then that's an opportunity for someone else to come along and do things more efficiently and take their business. and i still don't see why you think you have a right to "have a problem" with what any company pays its people. i don't think you do, at least not any more than rick santorum has a right to "have a problem" with dudes cornholing each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Face Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 one thing...not sure if it was mentioned.... oil futures are traded on a free market system at the nymex....speculators, traders, and others buy or sell depending on opec, supply, world affairs.... i agree oil companies are making a ton of money...but they are not responsible for the price of oil!! we are based on capitalism, i dont see how taxing a company because it does well is very american...something needs to be done about the system, not the companies 1298266[/snapback] um, EXACTLY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I support the Middle East making as much money off us as possible. 1298283[/snapback] Don't you have some where else to be waterboy? The adults are having a discussion, go to the corner store and buy some ice cream or a blow pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Because the janitor hasn't made a dime for Exxon, but the executive has? 1298281[/snapback] So you get a tax break for making money for Exxon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Don't you have some where else to be waterboy? The adults are having a discussion, go to the corner store and buy some ice cream or a blow pop. 1298288[/snapback] I can't. Cheney and the Muslims took all my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 So you get a tax break for making money for Exxon? 1298289[/snapback] You get a tax break because everyone got a tax break, however your tax break is a smaller percentage of your income because pinko commies think you should pay more for less government services than what the janitor gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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