Ursa Majoris Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 I was just agreeing with one of your liberal brotheren, that our tax dollars shouldn't be paying for pensions. So you think any company should be able to renege on it's workers and the workers in question have no safety net at all? You do know that the system doesn't pick up anywhere near the full tab, right, so nobody wins except the scum in the boardroom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 So you think any company should be able to renege on it's workers and the workers in question have no safety net at all? You do know that the system doesn't pick up anywhere near the full tab, right, so nobody wins except the scum in the boardroom? I'm pretty sure Perch is performing an angry little liberal Jihad right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Typical Republicans kitchen!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 kitchen!!!!!!!!!!! I have no further questions for this witness. The Plaintiff rests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 I agree, we should just do away with Delta, and screw the people who had pensions. Who should "do away" with Delta? That makes no sense. If Delta had to come up with a plan to remain profitable, or go out of business, I bet they'd figure out a way to do it. Smaller airlines are profitable. Delta has purposely underfunded this pension because they knew the government would cover it. Lets not pretend that Delta couldn't be profitable if it suited their purposes to do so. The people making these decisions are far from bankrupt they are rich as hell. They are making their company bankrupt because it is profitable to them personally to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 (edited) I can't make up my mind which of these new TRs is stupider. TR's?????????? F'n newbie. So, let me get this straight. You advocate that all the people that were promised pensions as part of the agreement to work for the company for years on end should be ratted on by that same company. You further advocate that the government should offer no assistance to these people. In the meantime, you're cool with the company execs that were notionally in charge of the company keeping all their bennies and continuing to draw seven figure salaries and all the usual corrupt stock options, blah blah. Did you work for Enron, Perch? If not, you probably should have because you are so far detached from the reality of life for real people, you're a caricature. So you think any company should be able to renege on it's workers and the workers in question have no safety net at all? You do know that the system doesn't pick up anywhere near the full tab, right, so nobody wins except the scum in the boardroom? Yes. It is not the federal government's job to prop up the private industry. Well, that is the way I think it should be, but obviously there are systems in place that take care of pensions such as what is happening with Delta. The government's responsibility is becoming too large in focus. Once you start relying on the federal government, well,...you know history and what kind of power that gives government and where that can lead. Why is it up to my tax dollars to pay for someone else's retirement? You ask Perch these questions about who should be responsible...well, the corporation for one. The way to deal with this type of reneging is to have legal recourse by the workers, not a payout from the government. If a company needs that type of bailout, the penalty is the absolvement of your business. Extreme suggestion, but sometimes the consequences of an action need to be extreme for any real change to take place. Edited June 18, 2006 by I Like Soup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 I don't have a ton of experience with unions, but I know that within my company they have performed very poorly. We had manufacturing and distribution facilities in NJ a few years ago. Without exception, these facilites ranked dead last in every KPI (kind of a score card) we keep as a company. They did receive the highest wages, but that did not equate to quality work. We pulled out of NJ a few years ago and now are union free. Unions certainly had their purpose at one point in time, but I think they cause more harm than good now. They have burdened the airline and auto industries to the point that they may not recover. The teachers union here in Utah is a complete joke effectively killing the average quality of our teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 (edited) Why is it up to my tax dollars to pay for someone else's retirement? You ask Perch these questions about who should be responsible...well, the corporation for one. The way to deal with this type of reneging is to have legal recourse by the workers, not a payout from the government. If a company needs that type of bailout, the penalty is the absolvement of your business. Extreme suggestion, but sometimes the consequences of an action need to be extreme for any real change to take place. Yeah, right. What legal recourse? Yer like a naive little girl being offered a lollipop and a ride in a van. Edited June 18, 2006 by skins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 (edited) I don't have a ton of experience with unions, but I know that within my company they have performed very poorly. We had manufacturing and distribution facilities in NJ a few years ago. Without exception, these facilites ranked dead last in every KPI (kind of a score card) we keep as a company. They did receive the highest wages, but that did not equate to quality work. We pulled out of NJ a few years ago and now are union free. Unions certainly had their purpose at one point in time, but I think they cause more harm than good now. They have burdened the airline and auto industries to the point that they may not recover. The teachers union here in Utah is a complete joke effectively killing the average quality of our teachers. I can't speak for any union other than the ones I have been in. In general though, they still serve a purpose. Unions have declined almost 50% since 1983. Less than 13% of wage and salary workers are unionized today. I guess that's a big threat. Everyone talks about the UAW. True the workers wanted more in the late 1970's early 1980's, but GM, Ford, etc. gave out million dollar bonuses to the execs when the industry was failing badly! Who could blame the Union? They wanted their piece of the pie before it was gone! http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm Teacher Unions: I've was a member of IEA/NEA and AFT. Collectively for more than 27 years (add several more for a Gov. Union and IAM). I never was on a strike, but Mrs. RR was on 4 (31+ years in IEA). All 4 were necessary, but extremely depressing for the Mrs.. They got little to compensate for the strikes! In the late 1970's early 1980's when inflation was in double digits and Admins were getting decent raises (double digit), we were told 12% (over a 4 year contract) is all we can afford, but when things stabilize you'll get your's. We got it....right in the ! If anything I've seen the Union enhance education. Yes......we do police our own. I myself was a major influence in getting rid of bad teachers several times! Don't believe what you hear about tenure. It ain't the Mr. Chips scenario! I challenge anyone here to define tenure in a general sense! Hell, most teachers don't understand it, granted it's def. changes from state to state. Pensions: I paid in 9+% of my salary out of pocket! The school put in another 9+%. (Yup....that was my $$$ also! Believe me, when negotiations came around, the Board reminded us of that!)) The state has failed big time, but regardless, our pensions are pretty solvent. It weren't a free pension on our poor taxpayers folks! I PAID and PAID DEARLY! See how your retirement would be w/ an 18% input, compounded over 30+ YEARS! My Dad & Mom got screwed BIG TIME on a corporate pension that was sold out in ~1969. My Dad died in 1972, and my Mom has had to make a living off of SoSo Security since ~1985! He worked for them for 35+ years and all he got was a ! M'FR's! No..........sorry........Unions are MORE necessary today than ever! Someone has to watch Admins & Corporate leaders.............HELL, the government isn't! And yes we tax payers will pay the freight for bad Corporate management. UNION!!!! Till the day I die! Edited June 19, 2006 by rocknrobn26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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