Michael Vick's Property Raided again

[broncosn05]

I refuse to believe, based on Michael Vick's past, and the things I have read about this story, that he had absolutely no idea what was going on at his property. I could care less if he is charged or not, I already know how I feel about him. If that is wrong of me, then, so be it.

So why attack my stance?

[Bill Swerski]

Dude, even if he didn't know, it's his property and his responsibility.

 

Methinks that Vick is unfamiliar with the "R" word.

[broncosn05]

Methinks that Vick is unfamiliar with the "R" word.

Agreed. It's only with that unfortunate assumption that would allow me to think he really wouldn't have known.

[Bill Swerski]

Agreed. It's only with that unfortunate assumption that would allow me to think he really wouldn't have known.

 

I think that he definitely knew what was going on there. Where else would his cousin, who apparently couldn't afford his own place, get the money and the building permit for those "kennels" in the backyard?

 

As to whether or not he actively participated, I'm not sure.

[broncosn05]

I think that he definitely knew what was going on there. Where else would his cousin, who apparently couldn't afford his own place, get the money and the building permit for those "kennels" in the backyard?

 

As to whether or not he actively participated, I'm not sure.

We just don't know enough right now, which is what I've said the whole time....

[Ursa Majoris]

I think that he definitely knew what was going on there. Where else would his cousin, who apparently couldn't afford his own place, get the money and the building permit for those "kennels" in the backyard?

 

As to whether or not he actively participated, I'm not sure.

Indicators are he's a big-time better on the fights. Excellent point about the permits too - I would imagine the Feds are following that to it's conclusion.

[broncosn05]

Indicators are he's a big-time better on the fights. Excellent point about the permits too - I would imagine the Feds are following that to it's conclusion.

Is it hard to get a permit? Do they have people that check the property every year or so?

[WaterMan]

I think that he definitely knew what was going on there. Where else would his cousin, who apparently couldn't afford his own place, get the money and the building permit for those "kennels" in the backyard?

 

As to whether or not he actively participated, I'm not sure.

 

No one else has money or a job in the world but Vick. Now I understand.

[Bill Swerski]

We just don't know enough right now, which is what I've said the whole time....

 

Vick didn't have to have PARTICIPATED in the fights to be guilty here. I think it's pretty obvious that he not only knew about it, but paid for the facilities as well. Those suspiciously dark-colored buildings in the backyard didn't just spring up out of the ground.

[Bill Swerski]

No one else has money or a job in the world but Vick. Now I understand.

 

Yeah, I build on my cousin's property without his permission ALL of the time as well.

[Bill Swerski]

Is it hard to get a permit?

 

Um, the OWNER of the property is the only one who can apply for it.

[broncosn05]

Vick didn't have to have PARTICIPATED in the fights to be guilty here. I think it's pretty obvious that he not only knew about it, but paid for the facilities as well. Those suspiciously dark-colored buildings in the backyard didn't just spring up out of the ground.

But how can they prove that Vick knew they were being built. If there was such a direct corrolation we would know now don't you think?

[broncosn05]

Um, the OWNER of the property is the only one who can apply for it.

Who knows maybe the cousin took business into his own hands. We just don't know.

[WaterMan]

Who knows maybe the cousin took business into his own hands. We just don't know.

 

Except that Vick is a really fast runner.

[Bill Swerski]

Who knows maybe the cousin took business into his own hands.

 

So Vick's cousin picked up a bottle of White Out, erased Vick's name from the deed, and wrote in his own? Or are you saying that he built those buildings with his bare hands after the prospective contractors laughed at the doctored title?

 

We just don't know.

 

Then why are you going out of your way to defend a guy when all the evidence points to him being guilty as all hell?

[broncosn05]

So Vick's cousin picked up a bottle of White Out, erased Vick's name from the deed, and wrote in his own? Or are you saying that he built those buildings with his bare hands after the prospective contractors laughed at the doctored title?

 

Then why are you going out of your way to defend a guy when all the evidence points to him being guilty as all hell?

No. Vick isn't the only source of money in the world. The kid got the permit and saw a more profitable oppurtunity and took it. I'm sure they charged a price of admission and could've paid off a few cruddy shacks in the back yard. How they got their hands on so many dogs is my question.

 

What evidence do you have? Suspicion yes. But evidence?

[Bill Swerski]

No. Vick isn't the only source of money in the world. The kid got the permit and saw a more profitable oppurtunity and took it. I'm sure they charged a price of admission and could've paid off a few cruddy shacks in the back yard.

 

YOU CAN'T GET A PERMIT TO BUILD ON PROPERTY THAT YOU DON'T OWN!

 

What evidence do you have? Suspicion yes. But evidence?

 

Well, for starters, all of this animal abuse occurred on Vick's property. If somebody was caught cooking meth in a home that I owned - or better yet - in a series of small buildings erected in the backyard, wouldn't people be justified in assuming that I was somehow involved?

[Ursa Majoris]

Is it hard to get a permit? Do they have people that check the property every year or so?

You need to own a property to get a permit (or be an authorized contractor) but I guess that may vary from state to state. Certainly if you're installing business facilities (which is what these kennels would be) you'd need a permit.

[piratesownninjas]

YOU CAN'T GET A PERMIT TO BUILD ON PROPERTY THAT YOU DON'T OWN!

Just a question here... Was there a permit for the build? I've known of some situations where the owner builds something before they have a permit, or they don't intend on going through with getting one.

[Bill Swerski]

Just a question here... Was there a permit for the build? I've known of some situations where the owner builds something before they have a permit, or they don't intend on going through with getting one.

 

That's possible, although (1) the work looks semi-professional and (2) there would be no reason to do it themselves with Vick's pocketbook at their disposal.

[broncosn05]

YOU CAN'T GET A PERMIT TO BUILD ON PROPERTY THAT YOU DON'T OWN!

 

Well, for starters, all of this animal abuse occurred on Vick's property. If somebody was caught cooking meth in a home that I owned - or better yet - in a series of small buildings erected in the backyard, wouldn't people be justified in assuming that I was somehow involved?

I thought we were talking about the dog breeding permit? But point made. Do you need a builder's permit to put in a shack that you buy at Home Depot? And could they have illegally put them in if so? I have no idea.

 

Why would you be cooking meth when you're making 10 million a year?

 

You need to own a property to get a permit (or be an authorized contractor) but I guess that may vary from state to state. Certainly if you're installing business facilities (which is what these kennels would be) you'd need a permit.

Thanks ursa.

[kingfish247]

YOU CAN'T GET A PERMIT TO BUILD ON PROPERTY THAT YOU DON'T OWN!

Surely you don't expect anyone who's intention is to build a dog fighting and training facility to walk into a city/county government building department and apply for a permit to build said facility? Also, you do not have to be the owner of the property to pull building permits... that's what a contractor is for.

 

Anyways... it's my understanding that this Newport News place isn't exactly Del Boca Vista, full of retirees a la Seinfeld's parents with a stringent homeowners committee on the lookout for overgrown yards and code violations.

[McBoog]

Sorry guys. One of my "long ones".

 

Some of you are trying to apply what is known in the asset forfeiture world as the “innocent owner” defense.

 

This type of defense only sticks when you have truly an absentee owner who never is on the property and is renting/leasing to people s/he has no real connection to. There has to be no plausible way that the owner could have / should have known what was going on. An example of this is renting a house to a guy that is selling drugs out of it. The house is far enough away that regular contact with the property is absent and the tenant pays rent and never has any issues requiring the owner’s attention. Even in this case, an owner may get away with it once, but that owner is then put on notice and future illegal activity on that property could result in forfeiture of that property.

 

A thingy known as “implied knowledge” can make the owner of a property guilty as a co-conspirator to a crime. If the owner knew and turned a blind eye to the activity… Guilty! The owner of the property has a legal responsibility to report violations of this magnitude to the authorities. Failure to report these crimes and allow them to continue can range from criminal charges to forfeiture of the property in a civil arena, known as a facilitating property (assuming they can bring appropriate laws, know as SUAs or Specified Unlawful Acts, that apply to forfeiture, which could ALSO result in other liquid assets being seized/forfeited as well from the proceeds of these activities).

 

The parents of a kid selling dope out of his bedroom and not doing anything to stop it, could be subject to having a portion of the net equity of the home, and possibly the entire home seized and forfeited to the “people”.

 

This all applies to the Vick deal. He is known to have gambled on the fights, he has been seen buying supplies at local pet supply companies. Betting on any fights that may have been staged at his property would imply him directly in the violation. Independent of if he actually bred, planned, trained, housed or cared for any of these animals directly. A prudent and rational property owner would see these buildings on his property and want to know why they were constructed, especially if there was illegal activity occurring on the property in the first place.

 

Vick keeps trying to use the “plausible deniability” defense (not a real legal term). Saying “I didn’t know” and “they took advantage of my generosity” is not going to be good enough. Do we let the guy who bankrolls a major coke importation go because he had nothing to do with the actual smuggling or distribution? NO! Vick at the very least was the money behind this and HAD to have knowledge at some level about what was happening. Just because he chose to turn a blind eye to the extent, does not make him any less guilty.

 

Now, if organized gambling on the property occurred, or was resultant of activity that occurred on his property, with one or more co-conspirators, you are potentially looking at RICO (organized crime) violations as well as money laundering of any proceeds derived from the illegal activity.

 

I can’t tell you if he will do jail time, I think he very likely will. I think he is in BIG trouble, and not JUST because of the dog fighting. It is all the other violations that are more serious that can be heaped onto this situation that will take him down.

 

If you don’t know he is “guilty” of something at this point, you are being disingenuous and naive.

[Bill Swerski]

Surely you don't expect anyone who's intention is to build a dog fighting and training facility to walk into a city/county government building department and apply for a permit to build said facility?

 

Surely, you don't suppose that they could've legitimately asked to build with the purpose of creating a kennel, as many other people across the country have done?

 

Also, you do not have to be the owner of the property to pull building permits... that's what a contractor is for.

 

And you don't need the property owner to sign off on the permit? Great, I'll have my contractor get to work on that meth lab in your backyard.

 

Anyways... it's my understanding that this Newport News place isn't exactly Del Boca Vista, full of retirees a la Seinfeld's parents with a stringent homeowners committee on the lookout for overgrown yards and code violations.

 

The property is in rural Surry County, far away from Newport News.

Edited July 9, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[Menudo]

So why attack my stance?

 

Because it's constant. Every time he has screwed up, you run to his aid. It's time to see things for what they are, the guy is a punk. Unless, of course, you think that all of these problems are just following him around. What a shame. Such an innocent man, and all these bad people are out to get him. I never really had a major problem with Vick, and actually found him exciting to watch on the field, but, that has since changed. The guy is a scumbag, and ALMOST everyone knows that now, regardless of whether he gets convicted or not.