Gas is $4 a gallon...and we are getting robbed even more...

[detlef]

Then don't take credit cards at all. Lots of businesses don't. Not businesses that I go to... but they exist.

 

Man, people are right about you. You complain about everything.

Read the thread. I'm not the one who's actually complaining. Puddy was bent that somebody was charging people less because they were not taking advantage of a luxury that costs the business money. You seem to be saying that it pisses you off that people get charged for taking money out a bank that isn't theirs. I'm simply challenging you guys to back up your claims. That's complaining?

 

Was there some policy change that I wasn't told about?

 

Is there some new rule that you can voice whatever opinion you want and nobody is allowed to challenges it, regardless of how poorly thought out it might be?

Edited July 9, 2008 by detlef

[Puddy]

Puddy was bent that somebody was charging people less because they were not taking advantage of a luxury that costs the business money.

Well, I'm not expecting something for free. But when you've been accepting credit cards forever and charged the exact same price as cash then all of sudden there's a difference, then yeah that sort of pisses me off. It just isn't good business sense. Price accordingly for all your costs then. Really stupid considering that gas has increased 40% this year.

 

 

Let me ask you this. If I order something off your menu but want you to 'hold' some of the ingredients, i.e. cheese, will you reduce my bill for that 'savings' for your place?

Edited July 9, 2008 by Puddy

[detlef]

Well, I'm not expecting something for free. But when you've been accepting credit cards forever and charged the exact same price as cash then all of sudden there's a difference, then yeah that sort of pisses me off. It just isn't good business sense. Price accordingly for all your costs then. Really stupid considering that gas has increased 40% this year.

 

 

Let me ask you this. If I order something off your menu but want you to 'hold' some of the ingredients, i.e. cheese, will you reduce my bill for that 'savings' for your place?

First off, It's highly debatable as to whether you've saved me any money depending on the dish and what is being held. It's usually not as simple as somebody not putting cheese on a sandwich. If it happens in the middle of a busy night, that might mean that, instead of the guy on salad station making 3 orders of the same salad at once and distributing them evenly among 3 plates to take care of a few tickets at once, he needs to grab another clean bowl (after all, if you don't want bacon in your spinach salad, you might not want it tossed in the same bowl others that had bacon were tossed in) and making that salad separately. So, it is rare that a restaurant is happy to see special orders.

 

None the less, it's still not the same thing. In that case you are initiating the deal, not taking advantage of an offer from the merchant to save some money. The merchant should be allowed to decide when they will offer discounts. Again, think about what you're complaining about. You're complaining about somebody being given a better price than you because they're prepared to pay in a manner that saves the business money. Many of my vendors offer a discount if you pay COD rather than terms. It's pretty straight up. If you're willing to pay right now, you get a better price. If a vendor who'd always given me 30 day terms came to me and said that they'd knock a few bucks off if I paid then and there, should I be pissed?

 

That is, after all, what we're talking about. The gas station is essentially giving you 30 day terms to pay for your gas. The cost of that luxury is being paid by them to the credit card company. Now they're offering a discount to give up that luxury. You can still pay with a card, or you can save some money. What's the big deal?

[detlef]

How about increasing prices and paying the wait staff more? Tell customers to not include a tip as it's taken care of?

Believe me, I would love that. But it quite simply is not going to happen. Anyone who tries is out of business in months. Waiters would hate them because there's no way they'd end up making as much. The irony is that the total cost to the consumer would likely be less but too many of them wouldn't be able to do the math and realize that and wouldn't be able to get past the fact that your prices seemed higher than everyone elses. Even if you kept the pricing the same and just auto-tipped, others would be irritated that you were forcing their hand despite the fact that they're almost never able to decide what service is worth in any other situation and in all those cases just pay up without a peep.

 

It's just the way it is.

[jaxfactor]

I think that's cuz most people think the waiter is looking at the tip amount.

 

And that may be the case, but it also could be a perception. I agree with Det that a restaurant would be stupid not to check for a signature. Hell, I got accused of being nosey once by a customer when in actuality all I am doing is making sure there were stamps on the letters/bills. If I want to be nosey, I can do that when I get back to my truck. People do forget to put stamps on mail. It happens all the time. I have worked in the restaurant business before and came across this very situation plenty of times. There really is no subtle way to check for a sig while the customer is still there. I used to just check after my thank yous while my back was turned.

 

 

The real issue is that the stations weren't advertising it properly.

 

They should be punched in the nuts.

 

Now this I agree with.

[Puddy]

That is, after all, what we're talking about. The gas station is essentially giving you 30 day terms to pay for your gas. The cost of that luxury is being paid by them to the credit card company. Now they're offering a discount to give up that luxury. You can still pay with a card, or you can save some money. What's the big deal?

I understand all of that. Why didn't they offer the discount until the last month or so. Decades of the same pricing magically changed.

 

Why doesn't Sax allow me to save 2% on the $150 pair of Lucky jeans my wife clamors for?

[detlef]

So, even on those occassions were the waiter gets screwed, they're still doing better off? They need to consider that they're small, individual businesses and those rare occassions are the cost of doing business.

 

However, I like the tipping system cuz I appreciate good service and wonder how much a non-tip system would degrade it?

I remind them of that every time they complain about a bad tip. Again, I'm sorry if my bit about how money gets exchanged in restaurants sounded like anyone was being screwed. Like you said, it is a cost of business, it's just a very strange way that is quite unique to that industry. No other industry shelters the consumer from the act of paying to the extent that it actually might cost them money.

 

Additionally, few others give the consumer the chance to name their price. When a guy comes out to install cabinets in your house, he doesn't hand you a bill and say, "Well, I have to charge you at least X, but in reality, it should cost about 15% more, you just go ahead and decide what it's worth." It's just strange, that's all.

 

I've gotten great service from repairmen and others who's compensation I had no control over. Why should I think that restaurants would be any different? Good waiters are good waiters because they care, just like any other job.

 

If waiters were paid otherwise, better restaurants that charged more would pay waiters more and the good ones would end up there. Which, of course, is pretty much how it works already. If you gave crappy service, you'd get fired. If you gave good service, you'd get raises or if tips were simply included, you'd get the better shifts where more money was to be made.

Edited July 9, 2008 by detlef

[detlef]

I understand all of that. Why didn't they offer the discount until the last month or so. Decades of the same pricing magically changed.

 

Why doesn't Sax allow me to save 2% on the $150 pair of Lucky jeans my wife clamors for?

Give 'em time. They're just a bit further down the chain in terms of rising costs due to fuel. I'm rather certain that we'll be seeing more and more money saving options being thrown out there.

 

None the less...You're not seriously comparing how a luxury based company who sells nearly exclusively to people with money to burn conducts business with somebody who sells a commodity to every walk of life, are you?

[i_am_the_swammi]

The gas station is essentially giving you 30 day terms to pay for your gas. The cost of that luxury is being paid by them to the credit card company. Now they're offering a discount to give up that luxury. You can still pay with a card, or you can save some money. What's the big deal?

 

Thats the nuts-n-bolts right there.

 

I, as an educated comsumer, have realized this for years, and taken advantage of it.

 

We bought our Sony LCD TV a few years back from Best Buy. Price on sale was $3200 (marked down from $3,900). I asked the sales guy "If I pay cash or write you a check instead of paying with my American Express credit card (which I knew charged its merchants 3%), will you knock another $75 off the price?". He smiled, got immediate confirmation from his manager, and charged me $3125.

 

No brainer. I saved $75, and they netted an extra $21 (since 3% of $3200 is $96, which is what they would have paid Amex).

 

Win-win.

 

Which is exactly what the gas stations are offering their customers in a roundabout way.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Why doesn't Sax allow me to save 2% on the $150 pair of Lucky jeans my wife clamors for?

 

Likely because your wife never asked, or the manager is not empowered to give you the discount.

[Puddy]

Likely because your wife never asked, or the manager is not empowered to give you the discount.

I am going to give your theory a try one of these days. I'm slightly intrigued....slightly.

[Puddy]

We bought our Sony LCD TV a few years back from Best Buy. Price on sale was $3200 (marked down from $3,900). I asked the sales guy "If I pay cash or write you a check instead of paying with my American Express credit card (which I knew charged its merchants 3%), will you knock another $75 off the price?". He smiled, got immediate confirmation from his manager, and charged me $3125.

 

No brainer. I saved $75, and they netted an extra $21 (since 3% of $3200 is $96, which is what they would have paid Amex).

 

Win-win.

Well, I'd buy your theory easier if you pulled this off on normal purchases (food, clothing, etc.) but when you tell me you did this on an expensive electronic item or furniture, I'm not so sure. It may be the case that you think you saved on CC fees when in fact you could have negotiated that price on the TV by just making the offer without mention of paying with cash.

 

Go to Kroger on the way home, and spend $100 on groceries. Let me know if they are willing to cut a similar deal. Not trying to be a smartass (that comes naturally), but I'm curious if it works on normal day-to-day purchases. In theory it should as they are saving money in that situation. My guess is they will say no.

[detlef]

Well, I'd buy your theory easier if you pulled this off on normal purchases (food, clothing, etc.) but when you tell me you did this on an expensive electronic item or furniture, I'm not so sure. It may be the case that you think you saved on CC fees when in fact you could have negotiated that price on the TV by just making the offer without mention of paying with cash.

 

Go to Kroger on the way home, and spend $100 on groceries. Let me know if they are willing to cut a similar deal. Not trying to be a smartass (that comes naturally), but I'm curious if it works on normal day-to-day purchases. In theory it should as they are saving money in that situation. My guess is they will say no.

OK, but this isn't about asking the clerk at Kroger to cut you a deal. This is about the management at Kroger deciding to offer discounts to those who pay cash. Big, big difference.

 

So, you still haven't why you hate America.

[detlef]

I appreciate what you're saying, but it is most certainly not "in a roundabout way" -- what they're doing is bait-and-switch fraud, it's illegal, and they deserve a falcon punch.

Well, I'll certainly give you this. If they're not making it clear on the sign that the advertised price is for cash, that's BS.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Go to Kroger on the way home, and spend $100 on groceries. Let me know if they are willing to cut a similar deal. Not trying to be a smartass (that comes naturally), but I'm curious if it works on normal day-to-day purchases. In theory it should as they are saving money in that situation. My guess is they will say no.

 

I too think they would say no. I doubt the benefit of making you a "happy camper" to save $2 is worth the headache for their cashiers/managers to approve the request in the first place.

 

But your theory is sound in that it could/should be enacted at this level of retail. Imagine if all retailers came out with a policy that stated "you will earn 2% cash-back bonus on all purchases made via cash".

 

Imagine if Kroger enacted this policy....Giant/Acme/Publix would certainly be soon to follow.I spend $500/month on food for my family, give or take. If I could save 2% ($10), multiplied by 12 months....an extra $120 in my pocket versus giving it to the cc company. Thats real money. It would certianly change the way I shop.

 

I wouldn't even have to bring cash...I could buy a 25 cent pack of Wrigley gum on my debit card, get $100 cash back, pay for my groceries, and get a $2 discount.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I appreciate what you're saying, but it is most certainly not "in a roundabout way" -- what they're doing is bait-and-switch fraud, it's illegal, and they deserve a falcon punch.

 

agreed...it needs to be patrolled and advertised effectively and morally.

[detlef]

I too think they would say no. I doubt the benefit of making you a "happy camper" to save $2 is worth the headache for their cashiers/managers to approve the request in the first place.

 

But your theory is sound in that it could/should be enacted at this level of retail. Imagine if all retailers came out with a policy that stated "you will earn 2% cash-back bonus on all purchases made via cash".

 

Imagine if Kroger enacted this policy....Giant/Acme/Publix would certainly be soon to follow.I spend $500/month on food for my family, give or take. If I could save 2% ($10), multiplied by 12 months....an extra $120 in my pocket versus giving it to the cc company. Thats real money. It would certianly change the way I shop.

 

I wouldn't even have to bring cash...I could buy a 25 cent pack of Wrigley gum on my debit card, get $100 cash back, pay for my groceries, and get a $2 discount.

Which is precisely why the CC companies are one step ahead of them by offering you rewards on your purchases.

[keggerz]

yeah but I understand the incentive of wanting to get the customers into the store, so that they hopefully pick up a drink or a snack, etc. You don't really have that dynamic with most other businesses. I can totally see offering a cash discount just to get people to step inside. But being sneaky about it will get your ass in a sling these days.

if stations want people in their stores then they don't HAVE to have the CC option at their pumps....simply put they want your cake my cake and everyone elses cake and icing too!!!!

 

Did you think it was BS when they charged full service or self service prices? What, exactly, do you expect? Using a CC at the pump is a convenience. One that costs the gas station over 2% off the top. Why is it so wrong of him to ask you to help shoulder the load. That mother isn't being forced to leave her baby behind, rather, the gas station isn't volunteering to pay for the fact that her choice to have a child makes it hard to go in and pay cash.

 

It's sort of funny, whenever merchants try to mitigate the costs associated with having someone scoop 2% of their total revenue off the top (which could amount to about 20% of their profit), everyone gets all pissy. Not at the dudes in Wilmington Delaware who are actually levying a tax on nearly all commerce in this country, but the poor schmuck running the business.

 

When I opened my first restaurant, I was in my late 20s and had two partners. We opened that thing on nothing and lived on scraps. Amex wanted us to accept their cards but were going to charge 3.5%. I told my partners. Considering that the industry standard for profit margins in restaurants is 10%, that means Amex is taking a bigger cut of everything we sell that gets charged on their card than any of us who spend 80+ hours per week working in this place. So we said, screw it. Mastercard and Visa were less than 2%. I'm sure at least a few people got pissy at the nerve of us not taking Amex. The same people, I'd imagine, that would get pissy about making it cheaper for people who are willing to pay cash.

 

10..9..8..7...

I just knew you would be chiming in and as much as I want to to I know there is NO getting thru to you on this matter

 

Did you not read the entire thread? I am well aware of the increased cost to the business owner. Do you have a separate menu if I want to pay cash? No. You are smart enough to factor the CC cost just like any cost of running your business and make sure you price your food accordingly.

 

When your cost of borrowing goes up because the Fed increases the bank rate do you add a surcharge for interest to every bill? No. You consider interest expense when setting your price.

 

It's foolish for the gas stations to pick this one part of their business to isolate and charge separately for. If they just considered it as another of their many costs and based their pricing on that, nobody would be up in arms about it. Stupid PR move.

Puddy equals a wise man.....if its a business cost them build it into your frickin price

 

 

 

Well, unfortunately for me, I sell a more optional product than gas and part of that product is tied very closely to the quality of the experience. Gas is not that way. If you need it, you need it.

 

See, I'm over a barrel because I'm in the only retail situation out there with weird taboo issues with the transfer of money. In most others, you walk to a counter, they tell you how much and you just pay them right then and there. In mine, some people get bent if the waiter has the nerve to even quickly look in the bill folder to make sure you left a signed copy of your CC slip.

 

Of course, it's all a matter of perspective isn't it. You see it as getting charged more for using your CC. I see it as getting a break for paying cash.

I bet you that when that station Puddy is talking about implemented its CASH/CC pricing that they left their price as is on Cash and raised the CC price

 

Read the thread. I'm not the one who's actually complaining. Puddy was bent that somebody was charging people less because they were not taking advantage of a luxury that costs the business money. You seem to be saying that it pisses you off that people get charged for taking money out a bank that isn't theirs. I'm simply challenging you guys to back up your claims. That's complaining?

 

Was there some policy change that I wasn't told about?

 

Is there some new rule that you can voice whatever opinion you want and nobody is allowed to challenges it, regardless of how poorly thought out it might be?

Luxury? are you really referring to accepting CC's as a luxury for a business?

and fwiw, you are challenging anything because you have a closed stance/view on CC charges.

 

like i have said before in another thread, I am surprised that stations are charging by the 1/2 gallon yet.

[AtomicCEO]

Read the thread. I'm not the one who's actually complaining.

 

I disagree.

[Clubfoothead]

Incredible.

 

It's not as bad as a pit bull attack or giving your 13 year old a sex change for his birthday but something has to be done.

[detlef]

Luxury? are you really referring to accepting CC's as a luxury for a business?

and fwiw, you are challenging anything because you have a closed stance/view on CC charges.

Um, that would be no and no.

 

The luxury is one that the consumer is exercising. The luxury of not having to go in the station. The luxury of not having to pay for a month. Thanks for playing though.

 

As for the second, I think I've made myself rather clear.

 

Let's also make another thing clear. I'm not supporting the bait and switch mentioned in the OP's link. I joined when Puddy started taking up for the poor mothers who couldn't take advantage of lower prices for those who paid cash because they couldn't leave their kids in the car. My stance all along is that I have no problem with discounts for cash payments.

[keggerz]

Um, that would be no and no.

 

The luxury is one that the consumer is exercising. The luxury of not having to go in the station. The luxury of not having to pay for a month. Thanks for playing though.

 

As for the second, I think I've made myself rather clear.

 

Let's also make another thing clear. I'm not supporting the bait and switch mentioned in the OP's link. I joined when Puddy started taking up for the poor mothers who couldn't take advantage of lower prices for those who paid cash because they couldn't leave their kids in the car. My stance all along is that I have no problem with discounts for cash payments.

if you think you are getting a DISCOUNT you are kidding yourself....if that makes it easier for you to swallow then so be it....but come on you are smart enough to know that this isn't about a discount but is nothing more then a surcharge

[detlef]

if you think you are getting a DISCOUNT you are kidding yourself....if that makes it easier for you to swallow then so be it....but come on you are smart enough to know that this isn't about a discount but is nothing more then a surcharge

So when they just "build it into the cost" as everyone suggests it's just part of doing business but when they give you the option to pay less if you use cash it's somehow tied to a surcharge?

 

So either everyone pays more or only those who pay with CC pay more but it's one or the other.

[KSUChiefsTarheelFan]

Man, people are right about you. You complain about everything.

 

So is there some sort of secret club here in the huddle, where everyone talks about who they think complains a lot?

 

Then, after you give him your credit card and it gets run, he needs to leave it on your table until you are gone and out of sight? Once again, risking the fact that you're going to forget to sign or take both copies? You do realize that the waiter is out the tip if you do that.

 

At my restaurant, it is policy to get the check as soon as they get done signing it. It protects us as FOH staff, AND the restaurant. Four diamond restaurant, and this is an okay practice.

[The Irish Doggy]

Fact of the matter is, paying with cash is an inconvenience. You pay with a credit card and you save trips to the ATM, worries about having enough cash to pay a bill, time spent in line, time waiting for the dropout slow behind the counter to make change, etc. Combining two credit card cash-back programs, I'm getting a minimum of 1.25% back on everything I buy, including 4% on gas. Under these circumstances, I can't imagine speaking to a manager at every store to take 2% off the price for cash.

 

Handling cash is a pain in the arse anymore.