muck Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 What happens if the US Government decides to default on their debt? On the plus side: 1) We don't pay the $$s to the Chinese and Saudi Arabians that they lent to us. 2) Possibly, a big tax cut as huge line items are eliminated from the budget. 3) Social Security and Medicaid are more likely to be solvent. 4) On the down side: 1) The US pension funds that have invested in US government securities get blown up. 2) We lose our AAA credit rating. 3) We are no longer the default currency of choice for international transactions. 4) We lose our biggest (and largely unspoken of) club in terms of global politics ... "you don't play nice, and we may not repay you" ... 5) The US is in some sort of a 'penalty box" as it regards international trade for a few years. 6) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 What happens if the US Government decides to default on their debt? On the plus side: 1) We don't pay the $$s to the Chinese and Saudi Arabians that they lent to us. 2) Possibly, a big tax cut as huge line items are eliminated from the budget. 3) Social Security and Medicaid are more likely to be solvent. 4) On the down side: 1) The US pension funds that have invested in US government securities get blown up. 2) We lose our AAA credit rating. 3) We are no longer the default currency of choice for international transactions. 4) We lose our biggest (and largely unspoken of) club in terms of global politics ... "you don't play nice, and we may not repay you" ... 5) The US is in some sort of a 'penalty box" as it regards international trade for a few years. 6) Once Congress has a dollar in hand, they NEVER give it back. They would just find something else to spend waste it on. However, the remifications of defaulting on our debt are just prohibitive, the worst of which you have already detailed. However, it would be our children that would pay the price for that decision, not necessarily us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 (edited) Defaulting is too scary to consider. This ain't Sid Meier's Civ IV where we can test theories and revert to save Best game ever Edited July 22, 2008 by MrTed46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tboogs Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Once Congress has a dollar in hand, they NEVER give it back. They would just find something else to spend waste it on. However, the remifications of defaulting on our debt are just prohibitive, the worst of which you have already detailed. However, it would be our children that would pay the price for that decision, not necessarily us. Print mo' money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 If I had time (ha), I'd suggest an online huddler tournament. I will have a man crush on you if we can pull that off.... but again time is hard for me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I will have a man crush on you if we can pull that off.... but again time is hard for me as well. That may be something to think about after the ffl season is over but something I'd be interested in. Question: Anyone ever beaten it on anything higher than Prince level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Good idea! +1 I will need to brush up on my playing...I havnt fired it up in months. I tried playing the new one Civ Revolutions on the XBOX 360 but to me its just a WATERED down version of civ 4 so I couldnt get into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 We had some Huddler Age of Empires games (truly THE best game) where I defaulted on Soup's dolla bill, yo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 And since our currency will fall below the value of the Iraqi Dinar, bread will be 20 bucks a loaf.....you will have massive inflation. People would still be working, because our trade deficit should actually get better...since foreign markets would be able to buy US made products at like an 80% discount when currency is exchanged....possible. But the one actual certainty....we learn the Chinese National Anthem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 But the one actual certainty....we learn the Chinese National Anthem Never Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Never C'mon..sing it with me. "Me Chinese, me play joke Me put pee pee in yer Coke." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 C'mon..sing it with me. "Me Chinese, me play joke Me put pee pee in yer Coke." Commy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 C'mon..sing it with me. "Me Chinese, me play joke Me put pee pee in yer Coke." "Bite the wax tadpole" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 ...this seemed like an interesting thought excercise that nobody else is willing to play with me on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Muck - I've thought about this as well. What are the other countries gonna do? They flat out cannot live without us. Period. End of sentence. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 You need to elaborate on that. No. I really don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Ok, you could just say that you're pulling nonsense out of nowhere. That'd be easier. If you say so. Seriously. I honestly and I mean honestly believe we could pull it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Muck - I've thought about this as well. What are the other countries gonna do? They flat out cannot live without us. Period. End of sentence. Seriously. The US Economy is not the power house it once was...so I really have doubts about your statement. The problem is that alot of people keep saying that and that statement was true a few years back but not true any longer. Those days will never come again unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 The US Economy is not the power house it once was...so I really have doubts about your statement. The problem is that alot of people keep saying that and that statement was true a few years back but not true any longer. Those days will never come again unfortunately. Two things: 1. The USA may not be the powerhouse it once was from an export standpoint, but we are still a huge consumer of goods so countries could not afford not to trade with us on terms we could live with and 2. We can still kick anybody's ass militarily Doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Pulling it off is not the same as "They flat out cannot live without us." Did you mean something else? I mean their economies could not survive without us. I certainly did not mean their citizens would curl up in the fetal position and die. Methinks you read my comment a bit too literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 And those terms are give it to us or else? Umm.. no. We wipe the slate clean and agree to trade on an equal basis going forward. In terms of tariffs, etc.. for fair market value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I thought you meant their economies... Why would they do that? Because of the demand that we artificially generated at the expense of third-world labor? Not sure what exactly you mean by your 2nd comment. Artificial demand at the expense of third world labor? Not sure how this is relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 You're saying that "they" can't live without our demand, correct? We buy goods and services around the world much less than we would because of our position of strength economically. If we told them to lower their prices even more, why would they do it? Cuz they're already producing it? Why wouldn't they just sell it all off to South America or Europe for the same price that we would demand or maybe even a little. Why would they accept US dollars that would significantly drop in value and no longer be respected? Would we give them our gold reserves? Would we produce something that they would be willing to exchange for? I am saying that yes- their economies cannot survive withour our demand. And are you serious - sell it SA or Europe? Like that would even come close to the demand we generate. Look, I could be way off the mark, I understand that, but I do strongly believe we could pull it off without the doom and gloom some of you seem to think would befall us. For my part, I choose to believe what I believe and my part of the debate has concluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 For anyone else... if we defaulted, what could we offer the world that they'd want? Are we producing any good or service in substantial enough quantities that they'd accept in lieu of our collapsed dollar? We would sell off our gold for Euros? We could give them Alaska and Hawaii? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Seriously back on point ... yippee ... China (and others) are financing their climb out of the dark ages by giving cheap loans to the US consumers who buy the crap that they make. At some point, my hope is that these people will start to buy stuff made in or serviced by people in the US in greater numbers than we buy their crap so that we can repay the debts owed to them ... but ... if that day never comes, then, I believe that at some point we (the USA) will be forced to chose (i) pay our federal debts, including interest ... or ... (ii) fund medicare/medicaid/SS ... or ... (iii) pay all of both items but not really much of anything else ... or ... (iv) nationalize some huge and very profitable businesses ... or ... (v) limp along until we eventually implode economically. Personally, I believe that we will solve the problems as they become raging fires and will never proactively look to deal with any of these problems before they are gigantic issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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