dmarc117 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 just wait for the EMP to go off. then we all skrewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 you let your anger get the best of you with some of those statements....I just told you what's going on in the world...the stuff that people try to ignore and you throw this hissyfit over it... Yea, well...I've spent all morning (more like the last two weeks) fighting the urge to call two people idiots here at work. Then I come back to my desk and find I have the urge to call you the same. At work, not a wise move. So you got both ends of it. Doesn't change my opinion, I just didn't need to say it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'm considered part of the younger generation (although I just turned 30 last Saturday so I'm starting to feel old) and I think the younger generation knows chit about financial discipline. People spend far more than they should. That is what I consider the real problem with every one of these crisis that occur when gas goes up a few dollars or their investments go down. Read The Millionaire Next Door. The majority of rich people work hard and produce a solid income. But what really makes them rich is that they are aggressive savers. They keep their lifestyles in check as their income increases. It has nothing to do with taxes, government programs, or who is in the oval office. People that bought houses they couldn't afford, people that live paycheck to paycheck and then get laid off, are what cause big problems. Saving money and not using debt to buy things you can't afford is the way to insulate yourself from economic ups and downs. I'm 30 and this Friday I'll be writing a down payment check for 50k on the house I plan on living in for 15+ years. I don't have car payments, I don't overspend, I've kept my lifestyle reasonable while my income has gone up. Dave Ramsey says 80 percent of money management is mental. Only 20 percent is calculator work. If you can get the person in the mirror to watch how much you spend and live below your income (something congress can't seem to grasp) then you'll accumulate wealth over time. If most of you took care of money the way your grandparents did (zero or little debt, doing a family budget, not-overpaying or overspending) the economy would be extremely strong. I'll admit that if everyone stopped spending on the same day it would cause a crash, but if people reduce or eliminated debt gradually over 5-10 years the economy would be much more stable. Maybe this is just an off topic rant, but THAT is how I would address this economic crisis. People need to look at themselves and figure out how to handle money. People that think its just some magically unfair game lack discipline. You can win. It's just not easy and I see many people around my age trying to buy stuff their first few years out of college that it took their parents decades to accumulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I second that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Obama is no Teddy Roosevelt. do we no for fact that he is not a ruff rider?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 do we no for fact that he is not a ruff rider?? He does look like he knows he way around a horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Yeah, that was a pretty good post. When my wife got cut back to part-time and my company got bought out recently, I was a bit concerned. We live WELL within our means (we spent <$1000 for the fam (me, wife, kid) to go visit some friends in Baltimore and that was a "splurge" in terms of using vacation time and spending money) and right now, we're looking better than we were when she was working full-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Do you like your community's parks and public library? Do you like that police officers and firemen show up whenever you call because you are in trouble or your house is on fire? Do you like the streets you drive on versus rutted two lane dirt trails? If you answered yes to any of those questions, you support property taxes because that is by far the chief income source for most municipalities and counties. the thing is...we can have a system where people have their job and do what they want to do and live on a non-currency based system... but we've lived under the monetary system for so long it's almost impossible for people to grasp how anything else would work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm considered part of the younger generation (although I just turned 30 last Saturday so I'm starting to feel old) and I think the younger generation knows chit about financial discipline. People spend far more than they should. That is what I consider the real problem with every one of these crisis that occur when gas goes up a few dollars or their investments go down. Read The Millionaire Next Door. The majority of rich people work hard and produce a solid income. But what really makes them rich is that they are aggressive savers. They keep their lifestyles in check as their income increases. It has nothing to do with taxes, government programs, or who is in the oval office. People that bought houses they couldn't afford, people that live paycheck to paycheck and then get laid off, are what cause big problems. Saving money and not using debt to buy things you can't afford is the way to insulate yourself from economic ups and downs. I'm 30 and this Friday I'll be writing a down payment check for 50k on the house I plan on living in for 15+ years. I don't have car payments, I don't overspend, I've kept my lifestyle reasonable while my income has gone up. Dave Ramsey says 80 percent of money management is mental. Only 20 percent is calculator work. If you can get the person in the mirror to watch how much you spend and live below your income (something congress can't seem to grasp) then you'll accumulate wealth over time. If most of you took care of money the way your grandparents did (zero or little debt, doing a family budget, not-overpaying or overspending) the economy would be extremely strong. I'll admit that if everyone stopped spending on the same day it would cause a crash, but if people reduce or eliminated debt gradually over 5-10 years the economy would be much more stable. Maybe this is just an off topic rant, but THAT is how I would address this economic crisis. People need to look at themselves and figure out how to handle money. People that think its just some magically unfair game lack discipline. You can win. It's just not easy and I see many people around my age trying to buy stuff their first few years out of college that it took their parents decades to accumulate. Great post other than the bolded part. There's plenty of evidence to the contrary there. Isn't the average college kid leaving school with almost $5k in credit card debt? My wife goes through the "insufficient funds" transactions for her bank brach every morning. She says "a lot" of this is kids - late teens to late 20s - trying to live like mom and dad without the means. I'm glad you have a solid financial plan, but this isn't a generational problem - it's a social one. IMO, each generation has gotten less financially careful than their folks starting with the Boomers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Great post other than the bolded part. There's plenty of evidence to the contrary there. Isn't the average college kid leaving school with almost $5k in credit card debt? My wife goes through the "insufficient funds" transactions for her bank brach every morning. She says "a lot" of this is kids - late teens to late 20s - trying to live like mom and dad without the means. I'm glad you have a solid financial plan, but this isn't a generational problem - it's a social one. IMO, each generation has gotten less financially careful than their folks starting with the Boomers. That's what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm considered part of the younger generation (although I just turned 30 last Saturday so I'm starting to feel old) and I think the younger generation knows chit about financial discipline. People spend far more than they should. That is what I consider the real problem with every one of these crisis that occur when gas goes up a few dollars or their investments go down. Read The Millionaire Next Door. The majority of rich people work hard and produce a solid income. But what really makes them rich is that they are aggressive savers. They keep their lifestyles in check as their income increases. It has nothing to do with taxes, government programs, or who is in the oval office. People that bought houses they couldn't afford, people that live paycheck to paycheck and then get laid off, are what cause big problems. Saving money and not using debt to buy things you can't afford is the way to insulate yourself from economic ups and downs. I'm 30 and this Friday I'll be writing a down payment check for 50k on the house I plan on living in for 15+ years. I don't have car payments, I don't overspend, I've kept my lifestyle reasonable while my income has gone up. Dave Ramsey says 80 percent of money management is mental. Only 20 percent is calculator work. If you can get the person in the mirror to watch how much you spend and live below your income (something congress can't seem to grasp) then you'll accumulate wealth over time. If most of you took care of money the way your grandparents did (zero or little debt, doing a family budget, not-overpaying or overspending) the economy would be extremely strong. I'll admit that if everyone stopped spending on the same day it would cause a crash, but if people reduce or eliminated debt gradually over 5-10 years the economy would be much more stable. Maybe this is just an off topic rant, but THAT is how I would address this economic crisis. People need to look at themselves and figure out how to handle money. People that think its just some magically unfair game lack discipline. You can win. It's just not easy and I see many people around my age trying to buy stuff their first few years out of college that it took their parents decades to accumulate. exactly...but previous generations were halted when they were overextending themselves... this generation which has people pretty much older than you selling the houses with people about our age giving out the loans have manipulated the system and were allowed to by people above them to allow others to overextend themselves and do you realize how fast technology has moved in the past 15 years alone?.....it's moved faster than it ever has and the whole system has people in a tailspin with all of these get rich quick schemes that others are exploiting....and now people are relying on it only to have it blow up in their face... and I also don't overextend myself....I've had a very good sense about how to manage my money since I've started working...day one... you have to realize how this generation is being marketed and the news that they are being fed as well is consisting of much more garbage than even my generation when I was in my later teens and lower 20's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Yea, well...I've spent all morning (more like the last two weeks) fighting the urge to call two people idiots here at work. Then I come back to my desk and find I have the urge to call you the same. At work, not a wise move. So you got both ends of it. Doesn't change my opinion, I just didn't need to say it that way. you're entitled to your opinion....I still keep my stance on this situation, but I don't let other people affect me....I wouldn't give them the satisfaction.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 That's what he said. My bad. Where he wrote chit - I would have used jack chit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) the thing is...we can have a system where people have their job and do what they want to do and live on a non-currency based system... but we've lived under the monetary system for so long it's almost impossible for people to grasp how anything else would work... Maybe, I'm a little slow but am having a hard time grasping how anything other than some sort of currency would work. 99% of the work I do as an engineer is working for municipalities on water, wastewater, and stormwater systems. Under your non-currency based system: 1) How are the system users going to pay their respective water and sewer bills to these municipalities? 2) In turn, how are the muncipalities going to pay the engineering and construction fees on multi-million dollar infrastructure projects required to maintain these systems? I really am looking forward to your response because I don't know of any contractors that would want a couple million dollars worth of produce. Edited March 25, 2009 by wirehairman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Maybe, I'm a little slow but am having a hard time grasping how anything other than some sort of currency would work. 99% of the work I do as an engineer is working for municipalities on water, wastewater, and stormwater systems. Under your non-currency based system: 1) How are the system users going to pay their respective water and sewer bills to these municipalities? 2) In turn, how are the muncipalities going to pay the engineering and construction fees on multi-million dollar infrastructure projects required to maintain these systems? I really am looking forward to your response because I don't know of any contractors that would want a couple million dollars worth of produce. you're talking about paying for something that nobody really owns....it's a natural resource.... you should be entitled to these things from day one and naturally work....the reason behind layoffs is because of the lack of money... but if people just worked and received the necessities for life among other things because of the fact that they work like you're supposed to then it would minimize greed altogether....because companies wouldn't have to ration workers under the amount of money they are limited by... currency only limits us and gives people who are in power a cut-throat mentality because of the fear they have in losing what they have.... I don't understand how we pay for things in life that we should be entitled to.....but I understand that this concept is hard to grasp since we've been under the same BS philosophy for the past however many years that the monetary system has been in place...... the monetary system was put in place so that people who have power can keep it and keep the people who they decide is qualified enough to be in power in the loop...but again, it's hard to grasp because we've been taught a certain way since when we were in kindergarten finger-painting about what we want to be because it's what we see around us..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 you're talking about paying for something that nobody really owns....it's a natural resource.... you should be entitled to these things from day one and naturally work....the reason behind layoffs is because of the lack of money... but if people just worked and received the necessities for life among other things because of the fact that they work like you're supposed to then it would minimize greed altogether....because companies wouldn't have to ration workers under the amount of money they are limited by... currency only limits us and gives people who are in power a cut-throat mentality because of the fear they have in losing what they have.... I don't understand how we pay for things in life that we should be entitled to.....but I understand that this concept is hard to grasp since we've been under the same BS philosophy for the past however many years that the monetary system has been in place...... the monetary system was put in place so that people who have power can keep it and keep the people who they decide is qualified enough to be in power in the loop...but again, it's hard to grasp because we've been taught a certain way since when we were in kindergarten finger-painting about what we want to be because it's what we see around us..... Now, I'm really confused. How can a multi-million dollar wastewater treatment plant that treats municipal waste to protect our natural resources be considered a "natural resource" itself that we "should be entitled to from day one"? Water may be a natural resource, but the wells, booster stations, treatment plants, storage tanks, and distribution sytems required to make it flow out of your kitchen tap sure the heck are not. How are these things going to be paid for under a non-currency system or are you proposing we go back to hauling water with a bucket from a stream polluted with the waste of communities upstream and throwing our waste into the streets and streams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Now, I'm really confused. How can a multi-million dollar wastewater treatment plant that treats municipal waste to protect our natural resources be considered a "natural resource" itself that we "should be entitled to from day one"? Water may be a natural resource, but the wells, booster stations, treatment plants, storage tanks, and distribution sytems required to make it flow out of your kitchen tap sure the heck are not. How are these things going to be paid for under a non-currency system or are you proposing we go back to hauling water with a bucket from a stream polluted with the waste of communities upstream and throwing our waste into the streets and streams? I don't understand how you don't get the concept...water is a natural resource and people working ...not for money, but because it is what they want to do out of a field of options that best suit their traits.... you work and are entitled to water, food or whatever.....and any other services would be a job....you acquire certain things over time because of the fact that you work....it's a trickle-down effect... the fact that you can't see things working without a currency already makes me because it shows how far gone off people are that they can't even fathom things working any other way... you're asking how we eliminate the monetary system and then contradicting it by bringing up a "multi-million dollar" wastewater treatment plant....you're basing it off their worth in dollars when the dollar is nothing more than a frickin coupon.... so that "multi-million dollar" wastewater treatment plant you speak of is already worthless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I don't understand how you don't get the concept...water is a natural resource and people working ...not for money, but because it is what they want to do out of a field of options that best suit their traits.... you work and are entitled to water, food or whatever.....and any other services would be a job....you acquire certain things over time because of the fact that you work....it's a trickle-down effect... the fact that you can't see things working without a currency already makes me because it shows how far gone off people are that they can't even fathom things working any other way... you're asking how we eliminate the monetary system and then contradicting it by bringing up a "multi-million dollar" wastewater treatment plant....you're basing it off their worth in dollars when the dollar is nothing more than a frickin coupon.... so that "multi-million dollar" wastewater treatment plant you speak of is already worthless... Regardless of the dollar or no dollar figure put on a wastewater treatment plant, it is not worthless IMO. Treating muncipal waste is a huge issue that takes a ton of materials, labor, and effort. What will motivate individuals to build, operate, and maintain these facilities under your non-currency system? As much as you feel you're entitled to it, water does not show up at your house and your poopy does not flow away from your house by magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Someone give Avernus his free bucket so he can go down to the creek and get his free water he's entitled too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 the dollar is nothing more than a frickin coupon.... That's exactly what it is and it has no intrinsic value except as a coupon to obtain stuff or services. Any system you replace it with is also a coupon, even if it's credits on bartering. There will still always be credit and debt even in the Utopia you describe. Getting rid of what we know as money serves no purpose - all money is is an all-embracing method of assigning value. And clearly the man from Montana is absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Someone give Avernus his free bucket so he can go down to the creek and get his free water he's entitled too. Obama gonna buy me a bucket!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 That's what he said. I thought that was what I was saying. Could a social problem that is getting worse with every generation be called a generational problem? I guess I'm getting older but mentally I'm not far from the beer pong table in college most of the time. So I don't consider myself an "old soul" or anything. I just see a lot of young people doing stupid with money. They are going to figure out that they've paid quite a bit of "stupid tax" if they ever figure out how to run a calculator and a budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Regardless of the dollar or no dollar figure put on a wastewater treatment plant, it is not worthless IMO. Treating muncipal waste is a huge issue that takes a ton of materials, labor, and effort. What will motivate individuals to build, operate, and maintain these facilities under your non-currency system? As much as you feel you're entitled to it, water does not show up at your house and your poopy does not flow away from your house by magic. I think we're finding out how worthless the dollar is....and people have to serve the community one way or another... there should be people working a system where the poopy and water flows where you don't have to have money or something that creates the need for someone to try and steal whatever currency something is from another person.... once you do that...jealousy and green becomes greatly minimized and you keep people out of jail.... and once again...you're thinking within the limits of the dollar or any currency period and you're missing the point....which I'm under the impression that you either don't get or refuse to get.... either way I'm done re-explaining this to you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Someone give Avernus his free bucket so he can go down to the creek and get his free water he's entitled too. looks like someone is having another tough day at work.... you give'em hell....hell I tell ya!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The 5 top threads. I'm and I'd bet people and countries around the world still believe in our abilities. Don't underestimate the USA. Let the Economy Die 123 hallelujah 72 Avernus 706 Today, 3:04 PM Last post by: Avernus its starting....no one wants our worthless money anymore 15 dmarc117 114 Today, 3:03 PM Last post by: TimC Dear AIG 12 I quit! 26 CaP'N GRuNGe 232 Today, 2:58 PM Last post by: yo mama Will Obama Kill Charity? 12 46 Perchoutofwater 398 Today, 2:52 PM Last post by: dmarc117 CBO: Obama's budget = $1 trillion deficits for 10+ years 1234 95 Azazello1313 884 Today, 2:49 PM Last post by: Perchoutofwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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