Crabtree

[STL Fan]

Really, though, what he's doing is not all that different from what the Mannings did. Their egotism during the draft process was off the charts. Telling teams not to draft them because they wouldn't sign there, manipulating it so they went where they wanted. The only difference here is that he's not as sought-after as the Mannings so the Niners aren't willing to give in.

[STL Fan]

But they did it in advance and were up front about it. If this kid did have any issues other than money, it would've been great for all involved that he said them many months ago.

 

I didn't say he wasn't stupid or that he wasn't getting bad advice, I just said that the Mannings did a similar thing and nobody seems to remember, much less be all upset about it. If Crabtree had come out before the draft and said all this stuff, he would have dropped even farther. That would probably not have been wise. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

[kickureface]

best case scenario

49ers draft crabtree with their round2 pick in 2010

[Jackass]

It's all Al Davis' fault for drafting Heyward -Bey at 7 and giving him a ridiculous contract.

[Randall]

It's all Al Davis' fault for drafting Heyward -Bey at 7 and giving him a ridiculous contract.

 

 

Yeah but then he'd say he was picked #1 in fantasy drafts so he deserves Stafford money.

[Chief]

I didn't say he wasn't stupid or that he wasn't getting bad advice, I just said that the Mannings did a similar thing and nobody seems to remember, much less be all upset about it. If Crabtree had come out before the draft and said all this stuff, he would have dropped even farther. That would probably not have been wise. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

 

 

I remember alot being upset about Eli's stunt, and I personally still think he's an ass. JMO

[STL Fan]

I remember alot being upset about Eli's stunt, and I personally still think he's an ass. JMO

 

If I recall correctly, Peyton did a similar thing back in the day . . .

[Cunning Runt]

Really? Where "should" it be. If we've learned anything about the NFL draft it's that the league has been unable to establish any truly reliable salary slotting. Winslow's agent pulled this stunt when he was a rookie. As long as the system remains as is and enough owners are unable to control themselves, this will continue.

 

That's the funny thing. The likelihood of most top 10 pick rookies ever providing a good return on investment is pretty slim. Even those that do pan out, take a few years to do so. Meanwhile, you've been paying them elite salaries the entire time. So, it's not the end of the world to just skip it entirely. My guess is that this entire mess is being driven by loud and uninformed fan bases being outraged at teams not bringing their shiny new toy into camp, so they cave and pay what the agents want. What they don't realize is that devoting so much cap space to an unproven is not just fiscally irresponsible but also not a good way to put a winning product on the field. We assume that Crabtree will be a playmaker but we honestly have no idea. Maybe he's Calvin Johnson, but maybe he's Mike Williams. With so many solid WRs in the league that didn't come from the top half of the draft, why not just bring 4 of them into camp for 1/2 what you're going to tie up on Crabtree and hope for the best?

 

None the less, I doubt that Furd is implying that this is a wise decision on the part of Crabtree, rather that he doesn't it owe it to anyone to sign and play. He can do whatever the hell he wants including risking a very lucrative contract in a ploy to win a bigger one. If this blows up in his face, that's his problem, but he doesn't owe the league or it's fans an apology.

 

A few things. To answer your first question of "where should it be"? I answered that in my initial post. It should be in between 9 and 11 money if you're the 10th pick. Does it HAVE to be? No, it doesn't. But there are accepted norms and he's going out of his way to buck them. To use an analogy, if there's a line outside the door to your restaurant and someone cuts in that line, is that ok? I mean, someone could and maybe get away with it, but it would stir the pot.

 

And I agree, he is not required to sign and make whatever decision he wants - just like he could choose not to eat at your restaurant if he didn't like his place in line.

 

I'm simply saying that a rookie, be it Crabtree or anyone else, is really making an effort to upset the apple cart by not accepting a deal that is very reasonably within the accepted norms (ie in between 9 and 11 money). And while I think there may be some validity to the argument that he really doesn't want to play for SF because he may not think that offense is a good fit for him (read: can't get his numbers), I also firmly believe that if he'd have gotten $1 more than Heyward-Bey, he'd have been in camp and playing by now.

 

FWIW, I agree with the 49ers stance on this. They offered a fair deal and he doesn't want it. Well within his rights. Not saying at all he owes anyone an apology, but he IS going against the grain of accepted norms. And it IS different than a free agent where there is a true bidding war for that FA's services.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Cunning Runt

[detlef]

A few things. To answer your first question of "where should it be"? I answered that in my initial post. It should be in between 9 and 11 money if you're the 10th pick. Does it HAVE to be? No, it doesn't. But there are accepted norms and he's going out of his way to buck them. To use an analogy, if there's a line outside the door to your restaurant and someone cuts in that line, is that ok? I mean, someone could and maybe get away with it, but it would stir the pot.

 

And I agree, he is not required to sign and make whatever decision he wants - just like he could choose not to eat at your restaurant if he didn't like his place in line.

 

I'm simply saying that a rookie, be it Crabtree or anyone else, is really making an effort to upset the apple cart by not accepting a deal that is very reasonably within the accepted norms (ie in between 9 and 11 money). And while I think there may be some validity to the argument that he really doesn't want to play for SF because he may not think that offense is a good fit for him (read: can't get his numbers), I also firmly believe that if he'd have gotten $1 more than Heyward-Bey, he'd have been in camp and playing by now.

 

FWIW, I agree with the 49ers stance on this. They offered a fair deal and he doesn't want it. Well within his rights. Not saying at all he owes anyone an apology, but he IS going against the grain of accepted norms. And it IS different than a free agent where there is a true bidding war for that FA's services.

A few problems with your post. First off, if I understand Furd correctly, he's simply pointing out that we shouldn't place any moral judgments on what Crabtree is doing. That, whether or not you think it's a wise ploy to earn more money, he's not obligated to sign a contract for anything less than he wants to. You apparently found issue with that because you said that was only true if he was a FA. Do you imply that, had he gone undrafted and then demanded top 5 pick money, that would be fine? But it's not because now there's a vague notion of how much he should accept based on who got picked before and after him? How do you explain the fact that QBs, regardless of where they get picked, get more?

 

The other problem is your analogy to waiting in line. Each of us in society enters an unwritten contract with one another. If there's a line for something, you wait your turn. If you cut, that's "cheating" and you are trying to unfairly improve your status at the expense of everyone around you. How is this the same thing? Who is Crabtree cheating here? Certainly not the game at large, as has been implied by so many here. He's making a calculated wager that he can get more money if he holds out. Personally, I think it's a stupid idea, but even as a Niner fan, I don't really care that much either way because, as I've mentioned many times before, I don't think top 10 picks are a very good gamble considering how much they cost.

[Furd]

First off, if I understand Furd correctly, he's simply pointing out that we shouldn't place any moral judgments on what Crabtree is doing.

 

That's kinda right, and I agree with many of detlef's points.

 

Alls I'm saying is this: calling Crabtree a piece of sh*t, or wishing him harm, or injury, or a crummy career or exhibiting some other outrage because Crabtree cannot agree on contract terms with the Niners is juvenile and ridiculous.

 

You can go on all that you want about his draft position and what you think is a reasonable amount of a contract for somebody drafted in that slot. You can look at the contracts from the picks before and after he was picked and extrapolate however you like. The bottom line is that he is a potential employee. If he doesn't like a potential employer or the terms offered by that potential employer, he shouldn't sign a contract. Crabtree should act in what he believes to be his own best interest.

 

I know that I'm not going to sign a contract, or expect you to sign one, because of what may happen to the "apple cart." In any event, I'm pretty sure that the NFL is going to do just fine, no matter what Crabtree does or doesn't do.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Furd

[Cunning Runt]

That's kinda right, and I agree with many of detlef's points.

 

Alls I'm saying is this: calling Crabtree a piece of sh*t, or wishing him harm, or injury, or a crummy career or exhibiting some other outrage because Crabtree cannot agree on contract terms with the Niners is juvenile and ridiculous.

 

You can go on all that you want about his draft position and what you think is a reasonable amount of a contract for somebody drafted in that slot. You can look at the contracts from the picks before and after he was picked and extrapolate however you like. The bottom line is that he is a potential employee. If he doesn't like a potential employer or the terms offered by that potential employer, he shouldn't sign a contract. Crabtree should act in what he believes to be his own best interest.

 

I know that I'm not going to sign a contract, or expect you to sign one, because of what may happen to the "apple cart." In any event, I'm pretty sure that the NFL is going to do just fine, no matter what Crabtree does or doesn't do.

 

For the record, I'm not disagreeing with anything you just said. It's probably one of those situations where our opinions are not mutually exclusive and can in fact, both co-exist and be valid at the same time because I think we're speaking to different aspects of the situation.

[mitpdub]

http://www.dailytoreador.com/sports/locker...bol-1.1879256#5

 

Interesting article from Texas Tech school paper? They're actually bashing him and devaluing many of his stats due to their system

 

 

Locker: Crabtree turning into negative sports symbol

By Landry Locker

 

Sports Columnist

 

Print this article

Share this article Published: Tuesday, September 15, 2009

 

Updated: Tuesday, September 15, 2009

 

We are just one week into the 2009 NFL season and former Texas Tech record-setting wide receiver Michael Crabtree already is setting records for the San Francisco 49ers.

 

Last week Crabtree set a 49ers team record, becoming the longest rookie holdout in team history.

 

ESPN reported Crabtree is willing to sit out the entire NFL season and re-enter next year’s Draft if the 49ers don’t meet his demands.

 

Prior to the Draft, ESPN Draft analyst Mel Kiper ranked Crabtree as the best player available on his big board, but the reality is that Crabtree was selected with the 10th overall selection by San Francisco.

 

Unfortunately for Crabtree, your market value is determined by where you are selected, not where you are projected to be picked.

 

Randy Moss didn’t get paid like a top 10 pick when he slid all the way to the No. 21 selection to the Minnesota Vikings in 1998.

 

Why would Crabtree be any different?

 

Usually when someone does something unintelligent, they have an opportunity to make the situation better, but Crabtree has dug himself into a hole so deep he won’t be able to dig himself out.

 

If he signs with the 49ers, there is no way that his teammates — who just upset the NFC Champion Arizona Cardinals without him — are going to welcome a guy into the locker room who sat out the entire training camp over a petty, unreasonable contract dispute.

 

If he sits out for the entire season and re-enters the Draft, as he has threatened, there is no way that he will be drafted in the top 10 again.

 

Additionally, sitting out an entire football season isn’t something that has worked in recent history. Just ask Maurice Clarett and Mike Williams how that worked out for them.

 

Crabtree should be thankful he was selected when he was in the Draft.

 

Every year NFL prospects are overanalyzed by their workouts and the systems they come from, but somehow Crabtree slipped through the cracks.

 

Crabtree didn’t even workout for scouts, was coming off a foot injury that requiredsurgery and came from an offense that inflated his statistics even more than his head.

 

Crabtree was a great college receiver, the most productive in the history of the Big 12 Conference, but Mike Leach’s stat-friendly passing system had a lot to do with his statistical production.

 

The Big 12 isn’t known for it’s great defenses to begin with, but a large chunk of Crabtree’s production came in non-conference games against mediocre competition.

 

During his two years in Lubbock, Crabtree had 231 receptions, 3,127 yards and 41 touchdowns. However 1,140 of those yards, 75 of those receptions and 17 of those touchdowns came in his eight non-conference games against teams that would be lucky to win a Texas 5A state title.

 

Furthermore, 12 of Crabtree’s 41 touchdowns came less than five-yards away from the end zone and seven were less than 10 yards away from the end zone. That’s nearly half of Crabtree’s 41 career touchdowns.

 

Scouts already have begun calling Tim Tebow a product of Urban Meyer’s system — a fair assessment. But is it possible that Crabtree was a product of Tech’s system?

He should feel fortunate that the scouts didn’t ask these questions before the Draft, but if he re-enters the Draft then the scouts are going to dissect him more than a science project.

 

I understand contract disputes are as much of a part of the NFL as touchdown celebrations, but usually the player involved in the dispute actually has some leverage. At this point Crabtree has none.

 

Since Crabtree slid to the 49ers in the Draft he has shown immaturity, ignorance, arrogance and any other adjectives that can be used to describe Crabtree’s lost touch with reality.

 

The 49ers already have shown they can win without him and re-entering the Draft, next season will put him in an even worse situation than he is already in.

 

For two years Michael Crabtree was arguably the face of the Tech football program.

 

Now eight months removed from his Tech career, there is no debate Crabtree has become the face of everything wrong with sports

Edited September 16, 2009 by mitpdub

[Randall]

If he signs with the 49ers, there is no way that his teammates — who just upset the NFC Champion Arizona Cardinals without him — are going to welcome a guy into the locker room who sat out the entire training camp over a petty, unreasonable contract dispute.

 

 

I doubt this happens. I think NFL history has shown players don't hold business decisions against players even when they should.

[Randall]

If I recall correctly, Peyton did a similar thing back in the day . . .

 

 

He did? What did he do?

[STL Fan]

He did? What did he do?

 

IIRC, part of his decision to return to college for his senior year was based on the fact that his family approached the NFL team that was likely to draft him and told them he would not sign there and told them not to draft him, much like they did for Eli at SD. The team indicated that they still planned to draft Peyton and that factored in his decision to return to college.

 

So, instead of getting drafted by someone he didn't want to, he decided to take his chances with another year in college and try again next year. Of course he did have the ego thing going on and he still wnated to beat Florida and such as well, so there were other factors as well obviously.

 

The memory ain't exactly what it used to be, but I recall reading that being drafted by the "right team" was a factor in playing another year in college. Does anyone else remember that?

[Cunning Runt]

IIRC, part of his decision to return to college for his senior year was based on the fact that his family approached the NFL team that was likely to draft him and told them he would not sign there and told them not to draft him, much like they did for Eli at SD. The team indicated that they still planned to draft Peyton and that factored in his decision to return to college.

 

So, instead of getting drafted by someone he didn't want to, he decided to take his chances with another year in college and try again next year. Of course he did have the ego thing going on and he still wnated to beat Florida and such as well, so there were other factors as well obviously.

 

The memory ain't exactly what it used to be, but I recall reading that being drafted by the "right team" was a factor in playing another year in college. Does anyone else remember that?

 

A little different here though 'cause didn't Crabtree actually come out early in search of the big payday?

[cdrudge]

He did? What did he do?

I bet he is thinking of John Elway and not Peyton Manning. Manning was drafted #1 by the Colts and obviously he didn't force the Colts to trade him. Elway was drafted #1 in '83 to the then Baltimore Colts but forced Irsay to trade him along the same likes to how Eli got his trade out of San Diego, by refusing to play.

[STL Fan]

A little different here though 'cause didn't Crabtree actually come out early in search of the big payday?

 

Yeah, clearly a little different there, the similarity is is trying to manipulate the draft process for your own advantage instead of getting drafted and signing a contract and going to work like everyone else does.

 

On the baseball side, JD Drew comes to mind. Remember that fiasco?

[cdrudge]

Yeah, clearly a little different there, the similarity is is trying to manipulate the draft process for your own advantage instead of getting drafted and signing a contract and going to work like everyone else does.

Presuming what you say is true that he did stay in school because he didn't like who would have drafted him, I disagree in the similarity because it didn't cost or potentially cost a NFL team a pick. Had Eli Manning not been traded to the Giants he presumably would have sat out and not played much the same way Crabtree is doing now, wasting the pick.

[detlef]

IIRC, part of his decision to return to college for his senior year was based on the fact that his family approached the NFL team that was likely to draft him and told them he would not sign there and told them not to draft him, much like they did for Eli at SD. The team indicated that they still planned to draft Peyton and that factored in his decision to return to college.

 

So, instead of getting drafted by someone he didn't want to, he decided to take his chances with another year in college and try again next year. Of course he did have the ego thing going on and he still wnated to beat Florida and such as well, so there were other factors as well obviously.

 

The memory ain't exactly what it used to be, but I recall reading that being drafted by the "right team" was a factor in playing another year in college. Does anyone else remember that?

Actually, the only thing I recall was that he genuinely loved college and didn't need the jack. And FWIW, I'm a bit of a Vols fan, so was following the story somewhat closely.

[Randall]

My dream of seeing Crabtree sit out season after season until the right team picks him is still alive.

 

Adam Schefter, of ESPN, reports there has been no progress in contract talks between the San Francisco 49ers and first-round draft pick WR Michael Crabtree and that Crabtree will re-enter the NFL Draft in 2010.

 

Our view: Whoever is advising Crabtree is making a huge mistake here. If Crabtree does re-enter the draft he wouldn't be selected in the top 10 overall, perhaps not even in the top 20 - or even in the first-round at all! Is he still going to want top 5 money if he's a late first, early second round pick? According to Schefter there is no sign of the 49ers or Crabtree giving an inch in this situation.

[Skilly]

I say the situation is a wash for the 49ers. They can just look at it like the player was a 1st round bust (common enough) but that they didn't have to pay him a dime. He obviously doesn't want to be there.....I'd redo the offer to whatever a 7th round draft pick got and let him take that or sit out.

[mitpdub]

Wow, Rodney Harrison, not afraid to speak his mind blasts Crabtree on radio espn radio

[Caveman_Nick]

Wow, Rodney Harrison, not afraid to speak his mind blasts Crabtree on radio espn radio

 

[Jackass]

Wow, Rodney Harrison, not afraid to speak his mind blasts Crabtree on radio espn radio

 

That was incredibly spot on.

 

I have to say that i'm doing my best to see Crabtree's side in this, but i just can't do it. He has to be either retarded or the most stubborn person on earth.