Being fined/jailed for not having health insurance is the same as not carrying automotive insurance

[Sox]

Since the WSJ is being used,here's another op ed that is relevant.

 

Why an individual mandate could be struck down by the courts.

 

The mandate's real justifications are far more cynical and political. Making healthy young adults pay billions of dollars in premiums into the national health-care market is the only way to fund universal coverage without raising substantial new taxes. In effect, this mandate would be one more giant, cross-generational subsidy—imposed on generations who are already stuck with the bill for the federal government's prior spending sprees.

[wiegie]

do you care to dance?

I do.

 

$100 says that the unemployment rate (BLS Series LNS14000000) is below 10.0% for December 2011.

 

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutp..._id=LNS14000000

[Azazello1313]

I don't think I'd bet on it being over 10%. but I wouldn't bet on it being under 8% (about what it was when obama took the oath of office), either.

[bpwallace49]

I don't think I'd bet on it being over 10%. but I wouldn't bet on it being under 8% (about what it was when obama took the oath of office), either.

 

Soooo you are not betting and straddling the fence then?

[The Mucca]

So whats next, if you don't own a car, therefore need no insurance, You should be mandated to carry

insurance so that the cost of auto insurance will be lower for us that do.

[Azazello1313]

Soooo you are not betting and straddling the fence then?

 

well I'm not really interested in betting on such stuff regardless, but if I were, I would think the unemployment rate when he took office would be a pretty fair measuring stick....and I personally doubt very seriously we'll be under it two years from now.

[Ursa Majoris]

So whats next, if you don't own a car, therefore need no insurance, You should be mandated to carry

insurance so that the cost of auto insurance will be lower for us that do.

Are you sure you want to use this analogy?

[Avernus]

with the way things look now, there's no way of telling what the unemployment rate will be in 2 years....

 

I'm more interested in what sort of value the USD will have rather than the unemployment rate...

 

I wouldn't be shocked that in 3 years, the unemployment rate would be around 5% or less....but the USD will have nowhere near the same value it currently holds...

 

there are several variations and it seems like the government wants an extremely cheap dollar so our debts are easier to pay off....but I'd still like to see what plays out over the next 3-6 months or so to possibly get a better idea as to where our economy is headed and what unemplyment rates will look like...

[wiegie]

I wouldn't be shocked that in 3 years, the unemployment rate would be around 5% or less

I would.

[bpwallace49]

Are you sure you want to use this analogy?

 

I cant wait to hear how he DOES justify it . . .

[bpwallace49]

well I'm not really interested in betting on such stuff regardless, but if I were, I would think the unemployment rate when he took office would be a pretty fair measuring stick....and I personally doubt very seriously we'll be under it two years from now.

 

To be fair, the unemployment rate went up precipitously as I remember just a couple months before he took office. I really dont know what the next "bubble" will be that will drive increased employment domestically.

 

To me it aslo depends on what "measuring stick" is being used. According to some sources, the "ral" rate is around 16-18% due to part-time work. If THAT is the barometer, then no way will we be under 9%. If we use the 10% + factor then i can see 6-7% being best case absent any other factors . .

[AtomicCEO]

Are you sure you want to use this analogy?

 

I think his analogy works if you believe that there are "Unbreakable" (a la Bruce Willis) people out there who will never require medical treatment. And hell yes, I do.

[Avernus]

I would.

 

my point being (and I'm extremely bearish on our economy/currency outlook) is that nothing surprises me anymore...

 

things change so fast around here, but having said that....I said back in the Spring that I expected the current crisis the continue and get worse between now and 2014.....

 

at the time I was saying around a little over 5 years.....which would be sometime in 2014....and I stick by that...

 

but I have recently come to the conclusion that one of the problems we have will improve drastically while the others fall terribly...

 

and from my point of view...the USD is in poor shape and now when I look at how the dollar is doing against gold....gold has recently started doing it's own thing regardless of what the dollar is doing....

 

I've never seen this happen before where gold and the USD detatched from one another in value...

 

but back to unemployment - as much as I wouldn't be shocked if the numbers went down....I still have no idea how Obama and his clan plans to create more jobs other than this green movement they have planned...

[The Mucca]

I cant wait to hear how he DOES justify it . . .

 

Justify what?

Everyone needs to pay, share the wealth, why should my auto premiums be higher because

there is no mandate for every adult to carry insurance.

Why should we just stop at health insurance. Let's get more Mandates out there to keep cost

down. Auto, health, life, mandate them all.

Lets mandate food, every adult pays X amount for food each month. Can't pay, your fined.

Share the wealth. Just because some don't drive, other people do, you need to help them pay for

it.

[bushwacked]

Are you sure you want to use this analogy?

 

Yea, I wondered how long it was going to take.

[AtomicCEO]

Justify what?

Everyone needs to pay, share the wealth, why should my auto premiums be higher because

there is no mandate for every adult to carry insurance.

Why should we just stop at health insurance. Let's get more Mandates out there to keep cost

down. Auto, health, life, mandate them all.

Lets mandate food, every adult pays X amount for food each month. Can't pay, your fined.

Share the wealth. Just because some don't drive, other people do, you need to help them pay for

it.

 

I wonder why more people aren't making this analogy. It's almost like you're missing something obvious.

[Clubfoothead]

So you are you pissed that people are being punished too severly or not severly enough for gaming the system? I can't tell.

 

It would seem to me that maintaining some form of health insurance is being a responsible citizen. No matter what system is in-place, there will be ways to game it.

[Sox]

So since you're required to carry car insurance,you should also have to carry health in insurance...isn't that the comparison Obama made?

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

Maybe some one can help me here.I've looked and looked,and I can't find ANY federal law requiring you to carry car insurance.

[bushwacked]

All Obama was claiming was that when the Gubbment, regardless of jurisdiction, requires people to have auto insurance to legally operate vehicles; people don't think of that as a tax.

 

If you want to get Have to agree here'd out about the intellectual dishonesty of comparing that rather valid point to proposed health-care insurance requirements on a federal level; I think you're reaching and listening to too much AM radio.

 

If you want to use his comparison to insinuate he meant auto industry = health care industry, then you've really jumped the shark.

[WaterMan]

I'm still too scared about the death panels to care about going to jail.

[Sox]

If you want to use his comparison to insinuate he meant auto industry = health care industry, then you've really jumped the shark.

 

 

 

I didn't make the comparison;he did.He equated one with the other.How you would be required to get health care just like you are required to get car insurance.Would you like to see the video of the interview with him where he did?

[Sox]

All Obama was claiming was that when the Gubbment, regardless of jurisdiction, requires people to have auto insurance to legally operate vehicles; people don't think of that as a tax.

 

I just watched the interview again.I didn't see that anywhere.Where did you get this?Here is the interview.He said nothing that I have quoted from you.He talks about it at the 14:00 minute mark.He stated(inexact quote)"People would be required to get health insurance just like they would car insurance."There was nary a mention of jurisdiction,or that people didn't consider auto insurance a tax.

 

Full Obama Interview

 

If I didn't know better,I'd think you were just making things up to support your argument.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Sox

[bushwacked]

Where did you get this?

 

This:

 

"What it's saying is ... that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you any more than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance," he said. "Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that, if you hit my car, that I'm not covering all the costs."

 

Asked again about critics calling the requirement to pay for health insurance a tax increase, Obama said: "My critics say everything is a tax increase."

 

 

I see nothing wrong with this point, nor has he said anything, that I'm aware of, claiming every facet of regulating the auto insurance industry should be directly applied to the health-care insurance industry (or that the magnitude for need of regulation is even remotely similar). I realize the talking heads are in exploitation mode to falsely push he meant that latter. I call BS.

Edited November 12, 2009 by bushwacked

[dmarc117]

I do.

 

$100 says that the unemployment rate (BLS Series LNS14000000) is below 10.0% for December 2011.

 

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutp..._id=LNS14000000

 

 

sounds good.

[dmarc117]

with the way things look now, there's no way of telling what the unemployment rate will be in 2 years....

 

I'm more interested in what sort of value the USD will have rather than the unemployment rate...

 

I wouldn't be shocked that in 3 years, the unemployment rate would be around 5% or less....but the USD will have nowhere near the same value it currently holds...

 

there are several variations and it seems like the government wants an extremely cheap dollar so our debts are easier to pay off....but I'd still like to see what plays out over the next 3-6 months or so to possibly get a better idea as to where our economy is headed and what unemplyment rates will look like...

 

 

the new normal is 10%