whoopazz Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) I know there are folks here in the know (CD, FBJ, etc.) My house has two electric heat pumps (Carriers) that are about 20 years old. Although they are still functional, I'm guessing they're nearing the end of use, and I'm sure not up to par on the performance and efficiency of newer systems. I'm thinking I should start researching and saving. The downstairs unit serves about 1000 sq ft, and the upstairs about 1300. Being in NC, they work pretty hard all summer for cooling, and in Jan and Feb for heat. What say ye experts? Any favorites or ballpark estimates? TIA Edited November 15, 2009 by whoopazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I have to defer on Heat Pumps. Although I did take some courses on them about 25 yrs ago to understand how they work I have never actually worked on them. I am (was) a boiler guy and plumber. I am sure the technology has changed as well. I would get at least 3 estimates on the same brand and like you said do some research on the top brands. Wish you well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 PM sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Sounds like you probably need a 2 1/2 Ton unit for down stairs and a 3 ton unit for upstairs. Of course the number and age of your windows and doors could have an affect that might cause you to need to bump that up a little bit. You really need to have someone take a look at your house, so they can crunch real numbers taking int to consideration heat loads. The standard rule of thumb is about 1 Ton for every 450 square feet. If you have a newer home with high end windows and great insulation you can probably trim some off that, but if you have an old drafty home with single pane windows or even cheap insulated windows you may need to bump it up. Have several guys come out and look at it. They should tell you the tonnage they are quoting for each space. When comparing the bids if the low one shows a different tonnage, they maybe just dong the rule of thumb thing I did, and not looking at actual conditions. I just replaced 2 units on my house and added a third. I told my buddy who is an HVAC guy that I wanted him to figure the equipment on a 10 year payout, that I wasn't necessarily interested int he lowest up front cost. He did the math for me and we decided to go with 15 SEER units. According to him anything over that was really just throwing money away because they manufacturers start really jacking the price up. You also have to remember that the equipment you currently have is the exception, most of it will not last 20 years. Typically you are looking at 12-15 years. I was really thinking when I got started on this, I was going to go with 21 SEER units, but my buddy talked me out of it. BTW, just because I have buddy in the business doesn't mean I only asked him. I ended up getting 4 quotes, my buddy just happened to give me the buddy deal. With regard to manufacturers I'm sure you would probably be fine with any of the major manufacturers. I don' know much about residential equipment, but on 90% of the commercial jobs around here Trane is specified, though Carrier is often accepted as a substitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Great thread. My heating element in my furnace just went. House was built in '96 so it's 13 years old. I'm trying to decide if I should just get it fixed for $1k to $1,5K or look at replacing. If I replace it, looks like it's going to run 4-5K. That along with a transmission that just went is exactly what I need just before the holidays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Great thread. My heating element in my furnace just went. House was built in '96 so it's 13 years old. I'm trying to decide if I should just get it fixed for $1k to $1,5K or look at replacing. If I replace it, looks like it's going to run 4-5K. That along with a transmission that just went is exactly what I need just before the holidays! Let me know what they are proposing and I can give you some advice on equipment, pricing, etc. I would NOT put $1000+ into a 13 year old furnace. And 4-5000 seems REAL high to me for a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Sounds like you probably need a 2 1/2 Ton unit for down stairs and a 3 ton unit for upstairs. Of course the number and age of your windows and doors could have an affect that might cause you to need to bump that up a little bit. You really need to have someone take a look at your house, so they can crunch real numbers taking int to consideration heat loads. The standard rule of thumb is about 1 Ton for every 450 square feet. If you have a newer home with high end windows and great insulation you can probably trim some off that, but if you have an old drafty home with single pane windows or even cheap insulated windows you may need to bump it up. Have several guys come out and look at it. They should tell you the tonnage they are quoting for each space. When comparing the bids if the low one shows a different tonnage, they maybe just dong the rule of thumb thing I did, and not looking at actual conditions. I just replaced 2 units on my house and added a third. I told my buddy who is an HVAC guy that I wanted him to figure the equipment on a 10 year payout, that I wasn't necessarily interested int he lowest up front cost. He did the math for me and we decided to go with 15 SEER units. According to him anything over that was really just throwing money away because they manufacturers start really jacking the price up. You also have to remember that the equipment you currently have is the exception, most of it will not last 20 years. Typically you are looking at 12-15 years. I was really thinking when I got started on this, I was going to go with 21 SEER units, but my buddy talked me out of it. BTW, just because I have buddy in the business doesn't mean I only asked him. I ended up getting 4 quotes, my buddy just happened to give me the buddy deal. With regard to manufacturers I'm sure you would probably be fine with any of the major manufacturers. I don' know much about residential equipment, but on 90% of the commercial jobs around here Trane is specified, though Carrier is often accepted as a substitution. The first question I always ask is: How long will you be in your house. Perch is pretty spot on with his info. The sizing is always the key. I would demand the companies who are estimating to do a Manual J load calculation. If they will not do it, or refuse to do it, or tell you "I've been doing this 20 years....I don't need to", then run away. The load tells you exactly how much heating and cooling you need based on many factors: 1. Orientation of the house 2. Ceiling heights 3. Measurements of windows and doors 4. Square footage 5. Whether the house is on a crawlspace, basement or slab Equipment is not nearly as important as installation. Poor installation ruins more equipment than anything. And Perch is exactly right on Seer rating. You typically will not recoup the cost difference over about 14 Seer. You CAN, however, gain some comfort in the 16 Seer and up range because they use a 2-stage compressor. Basically a 3 ton unit will run at about 1.5 tons in first stage. This for humidity control. And in your climate, this may make some sense. You have to remember, AC is sized for the hottest days of the year. When you have a day that is 80 degrees with 80% humidity, your system doesn't run enough to pull more humidity out of a house. The 2-stage compressor helps that tremendously. Of course, that will start to cost some bucks. However, right now is a good time to be looking with the tax credits and rebates available. Edited November 16, 2009 by Chief Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoopazz Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) The first question I always ask is: How long will you be in your house. Probably at least 10 more years. Perch is pretty spot on with his info. The sizing is always the key. I would demand the companies who are estimating to do a Manual J load calculation. If they will not do it, or refuse to do it, or tell you "I've been doing this 20 years....I don't need to", then run away. The load tells you exactly how much heating and cooling you need based on many factors: 1. Orientation of the house 2. Ceiling heights 3. Measurements of windows and doors 4. Square footage 5. Whether the house is on a crawlspace, basement or slab Equipment is not nearly as important as installation. Poor installation ruins more equipment than anything. And Perch is exactly right on Seer rating. You typically will not recoup the cost difference over about 14 Seer. You CAN, however, gain some comfort in the 16 Seer and up range because they use a 2-stage compressor. Basically a 3 ton unit will run at about 1.5 tons in first stage. This for humidity control. And in your climate, this may make some sense. I do have humidity issues, in summer I can see it in the hardwood floors (cupping). You have to remember, AC is sized for the hottest days of the year. When you have a day that is 80 degrees with 80% humidity, your system doesn't run enough to pull more humidity out of a house. The 2-stage compressor helps that tremendously. Of course, that will start to cost some bucks. However, right now is a good time to be looking with the tax credits and rebates available. Can you elaborate on this or provide a link? Added some comments for thought. I'm assuming the tax incentives are state specific?? Thanks for the great advice fellas. ETA, I am also detecting a faint trace of "dirty sock syndrome" here in the kitchen. Edited November 17, 2009 by whoopazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Added some comments for thought. I'm assuming the tax incentives are state specific?? Thanks for the great advice fellas. ETA, I am also detecting a faint trace of "dirty sock syndrome" here in the kitchen. The tax credit is a federal tax credit. You can take a tax credit of 30% of the cost of qualifying equipment up to a $1500 cap. Meaning, with 2 systems, you will get $1500 back on your taxes in the form of a tax credit. Are you all electric now, or do you have a gas furnace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Let me know what they are proposing and I can give you some advice on equipment, pricing, etc. I would NOT put $1000+ into a 13 year old furnace. And 4-5000 seems REAL high to me for a replacement. hmmm... Good advice. 4-5K is for a Carrier. I'll get the information and send it to you. I've got a couple more individuals coming by this week to give some estimates. I was leaning toward just getting it fixed, (mostly because we just had to replace a transmission in our f'ing Acura MDX) but I'm guessing your saying don't because there are many other parts that could go at any moment since it's pretty old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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