warren buffet

[Ursa Majoris]

In his defense he had a tech bubble, 9/11, and war that were significant drains

How come he gets a pass for the bursting of the tech bubble but Obama doesn't get one for the bursting of the housing bubble? Just curious.

 

Also, the war excuse is a pretty tough sell since both were optional and only one, IMO, was justified.

 

9/11 I'll give you - that's a no-brainer.

[caddyman]

For all the right wing shills . . . quick question.

 

Do you think health care is absolutely fine the way it is with no changes? Not the bill, the current system? TIA . .

Is it possible for you to be more of an arrogant ass? I doubt it. Please show me where any of us shills said this. TIA...LIBERAL IDIOT.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Is it possible for you to be more of an arrogant ass? I doubt it. Please show me where any of us shills said this. TIA...LIBERAL IDIOT.

 

It's like rain, on your wedding day.

[Perchoutofwater]

How come he gets a pass for the bursting of the tech bubble but Obama doesn't get one for the bursting of the housing bubble? Just curious.

 

Also, the war excuse is a pretty tough sell since both were optional and only one, IMO, was justified.

 

9/11 I'll give you - that's a no-brainer.

 

I'm on record for not blaming Obama for housing bubble beyond his support of certain questionable lending practices and strong arm tactics against banks while he was a senator and community activist. There is plenty of blame to go around on the housing bubble, Bush and Clinton both share more blame than Obama in the housing bubble. My biggest complaint against your dear leader is the way he has mishandled things since he got into office. He should have focused more on the economy than on health car and carbon credits (taxes). He shouldn't have sold us a bill of goods on the stimulus saying it would keep unemployment under 8%. What happens if your company blows a bid by 25%? Somebody is getting fired right? He shouldn't have looked at this crisis as an opportunity to expand government. You know how I feel, and that I think if he'd have just promised to get out the way the free market would have already had us turned around in the right direction. You can say what you want to about the wars, but at the time they seemed justified based on the intel we had and the overwhelming bipartisan support of the use of force based on the votes in congress. Hindsight is 20/20. I wish we hadn't have gotten in to the wars, but I have a hard time faulting Bush on getting us into them particularly when pretty much everyone in congress at one time thought it was the right thing to do, and the intel supported it. I'll also say at some point the cost of the wars will be over, but that if health care is passed it is a perpetual cost similar to that of medicare and social security which we both agree are f'd up.

[bpwallace49]

Is it possible for you to be more of an arrogant ass? I doubt it. Please show me where any of us shills said this. TIA...LIBERAL IDIOT.

 

That is the point Zeke . . . it never would have come up, because the right never wanted it to come up. Main reason it was killed under Clinton.

 

But please answer the question . . do you think the health care system is just fine the way it is? I know it is hard for you, but try to remian cordial . . .

[bushwacked]

it's pretty amusing to see the left wing shills throwing up their arms

 

[TimC]

For all the right wing shills . . . quick question.

 

Do you think health care is absolutely fine the way it is with no changes? Not the bill, the current system? TIA . .

 

I wish we could put assisted suicide on the books. We give our pets a more humane death than our elderly relatives. My biggest fear is rotting away somewhere with someone changing my diaper while my lifetime savings is eaten up in a month and goodness knows how much healthcare money is spent keeping me alive in body only. I lived my life with what I like to think was honor and dignity and I'd prefer to be able to die that way. I'm unable to do that under current law for no other reason than some religious folk think I'll burn in Hell if I take an injection at the near end.

 

I've done it to my dogs and it's very peaceful. My pets never lived a day in pain and I did not want their last few days/weeks/months to be a painful agonizing long end anymore than I'd want that for myself. People know when the time has come and nature can take it's damn sweet brutal time.

[bpwallace49]

I wish we could put assisted suicide on the books. We give our pets a more humane death than our elderly relatives. My biggest fear is rotting away somewhere with someone changing my diaper while my lifetime savings is eaten up in a month and goodness knows how much healthcare money is spent keeping me alive in body only. I lived my life with what I like to think was honor and dignity and I'd prefer to be able to die that way. I'm unable to do that under current law for no other reason than some religious folk think I'll burn in Hell if I take an injection at the near end.

 

I've done it to my dogs and it's very peaceful. My pets never lived a day in pain and I did not want their last few days/weeks/months to be a painful agonizing long end anymore than I'd want that for myself. People know when the time has come and nature can take it's damn sweet brutal time.

 

Good stuff here Tim . . . you have my vote. End of life care is the biggest anchor around the neck of health care in terms of spending . .

[Perchoutofwater]

For all the right wing shills . . . quick question.

 

Do you think health care is absolutely fine the way it is with no changes? Not the bill, the current system? TIA . .

 

I don't know if I qualify for a right wing shill or not, but I do support some health care reform, but I vehemently oppose the current bill. Of course you know that or should if you took the time to read what other people post instead of going off half cocked. I haven't seen anyone on this board who says nothing needs to be done, I think that is a talking point you've picked up form Madcow or Olberman. I know a lot of us think that nothing is preferable to the current crappy legislation being proposed, but that doesn't mean we want nothing done.

 

Here's a few suggestions:

1. Expand medicaid, and fund the expansion by a sales tax. Use a sin tax on alcohol, tobacco, fast foods, etc....

2. Break the relationship between employer and insurance. (Starting next year employers can no long provide health insurance to employees, but they have to provide raises to employees for the same amount as health insurance cost them. Said raise has to remain in effect for two years.)

3. Give a 100% tax credit for the amount each individual pays in health care premiums up to $XX.XX, after that provide a 50% tax credit on the additional coverage.

3. Allow private insurance companies to travel across state lines / get rid of state regulations on insurance companies. (not sure this is constitutional)

3. Tort reform (I know it's not a silver bullet but every little bit helps)

4. Immigration reform has to be coupled with health care reform, as illegals are a major drain on border states, and also bring illness across the border with them.

5. Get rid of stupid regulations, In the past I've listed examples of these.

6. Any hospital loses it's non-profit status if if's building is valued at overs XXX.XX per square foot, adjusted for location.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Perchoutofwater

[Ursa Majoris]

I wish we could put assisted suicide on the books. We give our pets a more humane death than our elderly relatives. My biggest fear is rotting away somewhere with someone changing my diaper while my lifetime savings is eaten up in a month and goodness knows how much healthcare money is spent keeping me alive in body only. I lived my life with what I like to think was honor and dignity and I'd prefer to be able to die that way. I'm unable to do that under current law for no other reason than some religious folk think I'll burn in Hell if I take an injection at the near end.

 

I've done it to my dogs and it's very peaceful. My pets never lived a day in pain and I did not want their last few days/weeks/months to be a painful agonizing long end anymore than I'd want that for myself. People know when the time has come and nature can take it's damn sweet brutal time.

I completely agree.

 

The one caveat I have is that safeguards against grasping relatives and standards to be met need to be put in place. Possibly the latter could be selected / stated by the person themselves.

[Perchoutofwater]

I wish we could put assisted suicide on the books. We give our pets a more humane death than our elderly relatives. My biggest fear is rotting away somewhere with someone changing my diaper while my lifetime savings is eaten up in a month and goodness knows how much healthcare money is spent keeping me alive in body only. I lived my life with what I like to think was honor and dignity and I'd prefer to be able to die that way. I'm unable to do that under current law for no other reason than some religious folk think I'll burn in Hell if I take an injection at the near end.

 

I've done it to my dogs and it's very peaceful. My pets never lived a day in pain and I did not want their last few days/weeks/months to be a painful agonizing long end anymore than I'd want that for myself. People know when the time has come and nature can take it's damn sweet brutal time.

 

I have no problem with this as long as it is the patients choice, and if the patient is not able to voice their choice that they have living will.

[caddyman]

That is the point Zeke . . . it never would have come up, because the right never wanted it to come up. Main reason it was killed under Clinton.

 

But please answer the question . . do you think the health care system is just fine the way it is? I know it is hard for you, but try to remian cordial . . .

First of all you are anything but cordial. You are arrogant in nearly all of your posts.

 

Secondly, sure the system could use some adjustments. Is healthcare the number one problem in America today...no way in hell.

 

And for the Zeke thing...you act like you are busting me. I have lost that login and would still use the name. It is pretty queer to drop that name. Especiallly when you were not even here and have no clue.

[Square]

I don't know if I qualify for a right wing shill or not,

Um, I don't read many of these politico threads but I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're a pretty entrenched conservative. I don't know what it takes to qualify as a "shill" but I thought you mentioned reading Glenn Beck's book (How to Argue with Idiots or something like that). Sounds pretty one sided to me.

[bpwallace49]

Is it possible for you to be more of an arrogant ass? I doubt it. Please show me where any of us shills said this. TIA...LIBERAL IDIOT.

 

You are a joke that routinely fails to provide any real positives to any conversation. You should really learn from WV, Perch and AZ that provide intellectual discourse. Childish name calling should win you BIG points Zeke . . . it really makes you look smart.

[Perchoutofwater]

You are a joke that routinely fails to provide any real positives to any conversation. You should really learn from WV, Perch and AZ that provide intellectual discourse. Childish name calling should win you BIG points Zeke . . . it really makes you look smart.

 

Shill, conspiracy theorist, Zeke...what was that you were saying about name calling?

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Shill, conspiracy theorist, Zeke...what was that you were saying about name calling?

 

Zeke was just one of his many usernames that he went through when he was banned time and again for his behaviour here.

[Perchoutofwater]

Zeke was just one of his many usernames that he went through when he was banned time and again for his behaviour here.

 

Well before bp got here, and he is using like a derogatory name, no?

[bpwallace49]

Well before bp got here, and he is using like a derogatory name, no?

 

That was his sig that others have called him?

 

Perch, how about I call you an "idiot conservative" like zeke's post? Is that cordial?

[bpwallace49]

it's pretty amusing to see the left wing shills .

 

the shills was in counter to this Perch . . amazing how selective your reading can be at times . . . (and I am just as guilty of it from time to time too . .)

[Jimmy Neutron]

Has anyone considered that if this bill was so good, why couldn't it be passed when the Dems has a super majority? If this bill is so good, why do Reid, Pelosi and Obama have to buy the votes of member of their own party ala the Louisiana Purchase, the Corn Husker Kickback, and the Beehive Buyout? If this is legislation is so good, why do the majority of American citizens want it to fail?

 

This is just a prime example of how the dems are an epic FAIL in "getting" government and politics. If they had pushed hard the first 6 months of Obama's administration, they could have passed a much stronger (in their view) HC bill, including a public option. Instead, they candy-assed around while the tea partier movement gained momentum, unemployment rose and the mid-term elections drew closer - all serious blunders.

 

I think more and more people are against this beause of economic uncertainty. The math is fuzzy - we're going to spend a trillion dollars to save $220 billion? Yes, it is more complicated than that, but to many it isn't. Lots of folks are hurting economically right now and many others are being very cautious, even if they have not been personally touched by the recession. There are not many people running out to buy fancy gizmos with all the options because it is not sensible to do so right now. That mentality spills over into what people think the government should be doing.

 

There is also the issue of cost, which this bill (in its various forms) does little to address. This is the primary reason I am personally against the bill. It's morphed into a health insurance bill, not a health care bill. I think the net effect of legislation like this will be more expensive, poorer quality health care for all - pretty much like everything else the government tries to do. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[bpwallace49]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

This sums up the entire health care debate quite nicely.

[Jimmy Neutron]

Watched Sebelius on a political show this monrning. Clueless regurgitation of talking points. You'd almost swear she had no access to what the host was saying.

 

Another interesting point - Graham and Bayh were on another show talking about getting a bipartisan senate luncheon organized once a month. Bayh said that in 14(?) years in the senate, the senators have all been together twice. Everything else is done in caucus, reinforcing politics over progress. Kinda hard to negiotiate and compromise when you never talk to each other except during formal on the senate floor. Depressing.

[Jimmy Neutron]

Another intersting tidbit - the current senate bill does not increase taxes on premium insurance policies until 2018.

[Ursa Majoris]

Sarah Palin on health care.

 

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin -- who has gone to great lengths to hype the supposed dangers of a big government takeover of American health care -- admitted over the weekend that she used to get her treatment in Canada's single-payer system.

 

"We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada," Palin said in her first Canadian appearance since stepping down as governor of Alaska. "And I think now, isn't that ironic?"

 

The irony, one guesses, is that Palin now views Canada's health care system as revolting: with its government-run administration and 'death-panel'-like rationing. Clearly, however, she and her family once found it more alluring than, at the very least, the coverage available in rural Alaska. Up to the age of six, Palin lived in a remote town near the closest Canadian city, Whitehorse.

 

Officials at several hospitals in that area declined to give out information on patient visits.

[bpwallace49]

Sarah Palin on health care.

 

Wow . . Palin slams the current attempt and coins the term "death panels" yet was happy to try and take advantages of the same system she is trying to demonize . . .

 

yay politics . . . .