Well this is just freakin' great

[westvirginia]

Now we'll never get rid of the welfare state

 

A Washington Times report underscores this shift. Last year, "for the first time since the Great Depression, Americans took more aid from the government than they paid in taxes," it has determined. Transfer payments unemployment, Social Security, food stamps, Medicaid, Medicare and other forms of government welfare grew $231 billion last year to just over $2.1 trillion. Meanwhile, individual taxes shrank $325 billion to $2.1 trillion, slightly less (before rounding) than transfer payments.

 

Let that sink in for a moment: We, as a people, are taking more in welfare than we're paying in taxes.

 

Is this the death knell for America? I tend to think not, since this happened during the great depression. But then we had a massive world war to boost us out of it. What will get us out of it this time?

[caddyman]

Now we'll never get rid of the welfare state

 

 

 

Is this the death knell for America? I tend to think not, since this happened during the great depression. But then we had a massive world war to boost us out of it. What will get us out of it this time?

It sure as hell is not more large entitlement programs and increased gubment spending...but that is what you are going to get. Then we can say we have to raise taxes on the producers of this country to pay for the entitled.

[borge007]

Now we'll never get rid of the welfare state

 

 

 

Is this the death knell for America? I tend to think not, since this happened during the great depression. But then we had a massive world war to boost us out of it. What will get us out of it this time?

 

It's all the Democrats fault!!

[Avernus]

World War III 2012...get your tickets while you can!

[Ursa Majoris]

Now we'll never get rid of the welfare state

 

 

 

Is this the death knell for America? I tend to think not, since this happened during the great depression. But then we had a massive world war to boost us out of it. What will get us out of it this time?

We are in the deepest slough since the Depression so this is hardly surprising.

 

Add on top an aging population that lives longer and this is even less surprising.

 

This is beyond party politics and merely drives home the need to address the SS / Medicare issues. If there is one thing I wish had happened before health care reform, it is addressing these two gigantic problems.

[The Mucca]

Don't worry, the Chinese language only looks hard to learn.

[evil_gop_liars]

Clearly what we need is another war and tax rebate checks.

[The Mucca]

Now we'll never get rid of the welfare state

 

 

 

Is this the death knell for America? I tend to think not, since this happened during the great depression. But then we had a massive world war to boost us out of it. What will get us out of it this time?

 

 

More spending of course. It got us this far.

[dmarc117]

World War III 2012...get your tickets while you can!

 

 

the only problem is wars are different these days. dont need as much due to technology. couple drones and whamo.

[Perchoutofwater]

We are in the deepest slough since the Depression so this is hardly surprising.

 

Add on top an aging population that lives longer and this is even less surprising.

 

This is beyond party politics and merely drives home the need to address the SS / Medicare issues. If there is one thing I wish had happened before health care reform, it is addressing these two gigantic problems.

 

I agree that Medicare and SS should have been fixed long before we just add more wood on to the fire that eventually going to burn this house down. I'd also ask you to look at the budget projections of Medicare and SS and then look at actual costs, the look at the budget projections of the current health care debacle that is about to be rammed down our throats. Can you honestly tell me you believe the budget for Obamacare?

 

As Ben Franklin said: When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

 

It appears as though that is about to come home to roost.

 

ETA: Who signed SS and Medicare into law? Is there any discernable pattern with SS, Medicare, and Obamacare?

Edited March 3, 2010 by Perchoutofwater

[bpwallace49]

Can you honestly tell me you believe the budget for Obamacare?

 

I seriously believe that a lot of what the CBO says is pretty sound advice . . no matter what policy gets passed.

 

Since the cutsie term for the health care bill is "ObamaCare" by the right, can a cool moniker be created for the Iraq War and shrub? GWB-Iraqigeddon? Suggestions are welcome . . .

[The Mucca]

I seriously believe that a lot of what the CBO says is pretty sound advice . . no matter what policy gets passed.

 

Since the cutsie term for the health care bill is "ObamaCare" by the right, can a cool moniker be created for the Iraq War and shrub? GWB-Iraqigeddon? Suggestions are welcome . . .

 

How about Bushy draws down on mass murder maniac, not catchy, but works for me.

[cliaz]

We all know full well that for the past 20 years or so, our entire economy was based off of debt. Debt was bundled, packaged, and sold to others who in turn made money off of the debt. The US was about charging, taking out loans, and charging again. We all knew that was wrong yet we all continued, completely oblivious to the inevitable down falls. Where the Great Depression was based on an unregulated stock market bubble that burst, our Great Recession was based off of minimal regulated lending and inflated real estate pricing that allowed Joe Crackhead from MLK drive to buy a $700k house with two ARM loans.

 

The Great Depression was so impacting because globalization was not a factor at the time like our world is today. We will never see another Great Depression because all countries and bound together economically. So we really don't have to worry much about that. However, what we need to be keenly aware of is how our Federal Government continues to do the same thing now that led us to this Great Recession - borrow more and more money. I don't care if you are Democrat, Republican, Tea party, Independent, Green party, socialist, etc, as of right now our country as we know only exists as smoke and mirrors. The federal government has overstepped its authority and continues to do so by borrowing more and more money from foreign governments then dipping into social security to pay the interest on our national debt. Honestly, I'm surprised we have not done the old Soviet Swan Dive of 1989 yet. We're broke, our time has passed. The 19th century belong to Britain, the 20th century to us, now in the 21st century it will be in Asia.

 

We need to stop all of this political party bickering, revisit our Constitution and strip down the unconstitutional powers the current central government has in place, return power to the states, and begin paying down our national debt if this country is going to survive. I am all for a Federal government but ours is way out of control and having a prez in power who, instead of listening to voters and congress, is going to go against everything we hold dear and force some BS health insurance bill into law (among other things such as throwing money at problems just like he criticized Busy-pooh for during his run) is simply unacceptable. If this guy spent as much time focusing on our economical problems and international relationships as he does on this crap right now, we'd probably be a little better off.

 

Do you all really want to see stuff like this getting out of hand?

 

We need to take that 500 billion in gold at Fort Knox, put that towards our debt, develop a nuclear plant development program that other countries can pay to come in, set up, and maintain nuclear power plants to increase revenue streams for our government to pay down debt (not worried about other countries trying to convert it to a weapons programs since it is all but impossible to do unless you are a developed nation. nuclear power plant uranium is only about 3% enriched and it takes at least 90% enriched to create something useful for a bomb), begin shutting down stupid federal programs to cut the borrowing, and leverage universities to develop renewable technologies. We need to revisit salaries of political figures (honestly, people who are governors, house of rep, and senate members shouldn't receive the salaries they have right now, it's a public office that a person should be duty bound and obligated to perform regardless of salary - just like our fire fighters, police officers, teachers, and military).

 

I'm so tired of hearing right wing this, left wing that, liberal momo did this while conservative pole smoker did that. It's all BS, people. The problem is the same recycled liars and thieves we continue to allow to get into office.

 

Sums it up pretty nicely

 

::off soap box::

[bpwallace49]

How about Bushy draws down on mass murder maniac, not catchy, but works for me.

 

that dog wont hunt big fella . . and considering all the "other" mass murders we do nothing about, seems pretty dumb.

[bpwallace49]

We all know full well that for the past 20 years or so, our entire economy was based off of debt. Debt was bundled, packaged, and sold to others who in turn made money off of the debt. The US was about charging, taking out loans, and charging again. We all knew that was wrong yet we all continued, completely oblivious to the inevitable down falls. Where the Great Depression was based on an unregulated stock market bubble that burst, our Great Recession was based off of minimal regulated lending and inflated real estate pricing that allowed Joe Crackhead from MLK drive to buy a $700k house with two ARM loans.

 

The Great Depression was so impacting because globalization was not a factor at the time like our world is today. We will never see another Great Depression because all countries and bound together economically. So we really don't have to worry much about that. However, what we need to be keenly aware of is how our Federal Government continues to do the same thing now that led us to this Great Recession - borrow more and more money. I don't care if you are Democrat, Republican, Tea party, Independent, Green party, socialist, etc, as of right now our country as we know only exists as smoke and mirrors. The federal government has overstepped its authority and continues to do so by borrowing more and more money from foreign governments then dipping into social security to pay the interest on our national debt. Honestly, I'm surprised we have not done the old Soviet Swan Dive of 1989 yet. We're broke, our time has passed. The 19th century belong to Britain, the 20th century to us, now in the 21st century it will be in Asia.

 

We need to stop all of this political party bickering, revisit our Constitution and strip down the unconstitutional powers the current central government has in place, return power to the states, and begin paying down our national debt if this country is going to survive. I am all for a Federal government but ours is way out of control and having a prez in power who, instead of listening to voters and congress, is going to go against everything we hold dear and force some BS health insurance bill into law (among other things such as throwing money at problems just like he criticized Busy-pooh for during his run) is simply unacceptable. If this guy spent as much time focusing on our economical problems and international relationships as he does on this crap right now, we'd probably be a little better off.

 

Do you all really want to see stuff like this getting out of hand?

 

We need to take that 500 billion in gold at Fort Knox, put that towards our debt, develop a nuclear plant development program that other countries can pay to come in, set up, and maintain nuclear power plants to increase revenue streams for our government to pay down debt (not worried about other countries trying to convert it to a weapons programs since it is all but impossible to do unless you are a developed nation. nuclear power plant uranium is only about 3% enriched and it takes at least 90% enriched to create something useful for a bomb), begin shutting down stupid federal programs to cut the borrowing, and leverage universities to develop renewable technologies. We need to revisit salaries of political figures (honestly, people who are governors, house of rep, and senate members shouldn't receive the salaries they have right now, it's a public office that a person should be duty bound and obligated to perform regardless of salary - just like our fire fighters, police officers, teachers, and military).

 

I'm so tired of hearing right wing this, left wing that, liberal momo did this while conservative pole smoker did that. It's all BS, people. The problem is the same recycled liars and thieves we continue to allow to get into office.

 

Sums it up pretty nicely

 

::off soap box::

 

You are WAY tpp megative . . .

 

. .yet very correct as well . . .

[The Mucca]

That about sums it up.

[Perchoutofwater]

I seriously believe that a lot of what the CBO says is pretty sound advice . . no matter what policy gets passed.

 

I believe the CBO does a good job with the data they are given, and the assumptions they are told to make. Unfortunately to make this massive mistake of a bill look even close to palatable some very strange directives were given and assumptions made. In order to get it into what the CBO now says it will cost, you have to take in 10 years of taxes for 6 years of coverage. After that what happens? Do we have to raise taxes again? Also the CBO was told that in 2018 (I admittedly may be off a year) that cuts to medicare will have to be made, in order to reach the numbers the CBO says. What is the likelihood of medicare being cut then? I don't question the CBO, I question the directives and assumptions the CBO was given.

[Perchoutofwater]

We all know full well that for the past 20 years or so, our entire economy was based off of debt. Debt was bundled, packaged, and sold to others who in turn made money off of the debt. The US was about charging, taking out loans, and charging again. We all knew that was wrong yet we all continued, completely oblivious to the inevitable down falls. Where the Great Depression was based on an unregulated stock market bubble that burst, our Great Recession was based off of minimal regulated lending and inflated real estate pricing that allowed Joe Crackhead from MLK drive to buy a $700k house with two ARM loans.

 

The Great Depression was so impacting because globalization was not a factor at the time like our world is today. We will never see another Great Depression because all countries and bound together economically. So we really don't have to worry much about that. However, what we need to be keenly aware of is how our Federal Government continues to do the same thing now that led us to this Great Recession - borrow more and more money. I don't care if you are Democrat, Republican, Tea party, Independent, Green party, socialist, etc, as of right now our country as we know only exists as smoke and mirrors. The federal government has overstepped its authority and continues to do so by borrowing more and more money from foreign governments then dipping into social security to pay the interest on our national debt. Honestly, I'm surprised we have not done the old Soviet Swan Dive of 1989 yet. We're broke, our time has passed. The 19th century belong to Britain, the 20th century to us, now in the 21st century it will be in Asia.

 

We need to stop all of this political party bickering, revisit our Constitution and strip down the unconstitutional powers the current central government has in place, return power to the states, and begin paying down our national debt if this country is going to survive. I am all for a Federal government but ours is way out of control and having a prez in power who, instead of listening to voters and congress, is going to go against everything we hold dear and force some BS health insurance bill into law (among other things such as throwing money at problems just like he criticized Busy-pooh for during his run) is simply unacceptable. If this guy spent as much time focusing on our economical problems and international relationships as he does on this crap right now, we'd probably be a little better off.

 

Do you all really want to see stuff like this getting out of hand?

 

We need to take that 500 billion in gold at Fort Knox, put that towards our debt, develop a nuclear plant development program that other countries can pay to come in, set up, and maintain nuclear power plants to increase revenue streams for our government to pay down debt (not worried about other countries trying to convert it to a weapons programs since it is all but impossible to do unless you are a developed nation. nuclear power plant uranium is only about 3% enriched and it takes at least 90% enriched to create something useful for a bomb), begin shutting down stupid federal programs to cut the borrowing, and leverage universities to develop renewable technologies. We need to revisit salaries of political figures (honestly, people who are governors, house of rep, and senate members shouldn't receive the salaries they have right now, it's a public office that a person should be duty bound and obligated to perform regardless of salary - just like our fire fighters, police officers, teachers, and military).

 

I'm so tired of hearing right wing this, left wing that, liberal momo did this while conservative pole smoker did that. It's all BS, people. The problem is the same recycled liars and thieves we continue to allow to get into office.

 

Sums it up pretty nicely

 

::off soap box::

 

[westvirginia]

We all know full well that for the past 20 years or so, our entire economy was based off of debt. Debt was bundled, packaged, and sold to others who in turn made money off of the debt. The US was about charging, taking out loans, and charging again. We all knew that was wrong yet we all continued, completely oblivious to the inevitable down falls. Where the Great Depression was based on an unregulated stock market bubble that burst, our Great Recession was based off of minimal regulated lending and inflated real estate pricing that allowed Joe Crackhead from MLK drive to buy a $700k house with two ARM loans.

 

The Great Depression was so impacting because globalization was not a factor at the time like our world is today. We will never see another Great Depression because all countries and bound together economically. So we really don't have to worry much about that. However, what we need to be keenly aware of is how our Federal Government continues to do the same thing now that led us to this Great Recession - borrow more and more money. I don't care if you are Democrat, Republican, Tea party, Independent, Green party, socialist, etc, as of right now our country as we know only exists as smoke and mirrors. The federal government has overstepped its authority and continues to do so by borrowing more and more money from foreign governments then dipping into social security to pay the interest on our national debt. Honestly, I'm surprised we have not done the old Soviet Swan Dive of 1989 yet. We're broke, our time has passed. The 19th century belong to Britain, the 20th century to us, now in the 21st century it will be in Asia.

 

We need to stop all of this political party bickering, revisit our Constitution and strip down the unconstitutional powers the current central government has in place, return power to the states, and begin paying down our national debt if this country is going to survive. I am all for a Federal government but ours is way out of control and having a prez in power who, instead of listening to voters and congress, is going to go against everything we hold dear and force some BS health insurance bill into law (among other things such as throwing money at problems just like he criticized Busy-pooh for during his run) is simply unacceptable. If this guy spent as much time focusing on our economical problems and international relationships as he does on this crap right now, we'd probably be a little better off.

 

Do you all really want to see stuff like this getting out of hand?

 

We need to take that 500 billion in gold at Fort Knox, put that towards our debt, develop a nuclear plant development program that other countries can pay to come in, set up, and maintain nuclear power plants to increase revenue streams for our government to pay down debt (not worried about other countries trying to convert it to a weapons programs since it is all but impossible to do unless you are a developed nation. nuclear power plant uranium is only about 3% enriched and it takes at least 90% enriched to create something useful for a bomb), begin shutting down stupid federal programs to cut the borrowing, and leverage universities to develop renewable technologies. We need to revisit salaries of political figures (honestly, people who are governors, house of rep, and senate members shouldn't receive the salaries they have right now, it's a public office that a person should be duty bound and obligated to perform regardless of salary - just like our fire fighters, police officers, teachers, and military).

 

I'm so tired of hearing right wing this, left wing that, liberal momo did this while conservative pole smoker did that. It's all BS, people. The problem is the same recycled liars and thieves we continue to allow to get into office.

 

Sums it up pretty nicely

 

::off soap box::

 

I <3 cliaz...

[The Holy Roller]

I <3 cliaz...

 

I'll just watch.

[bpwallace49]

I believe the CBO does a good job with the data they are given, and the assumptions they are told to make. Unfortunately to make this massive mistake of a bill look even close to palatable some very strange directives were given and assumptions made. In order to get it into what the CBO now says it will cost, you have to take in 10 years of taxes for 6 years of coverage. After that what happens? Do we have to raise taxes again? Also the CBO was told that in 2018 (I admittedly may be off a year) that cuts to medicare will have to be made, in order to reach the numbers the CBO says. What is the likelihood of medicare being cut then? I don't question the CBO, I question the directives and assumptions the CBO was given.

 

-sigh-

 

So you like the CBO, but feel there is a conspiracy to twist the numbers by that evil ol socialist Obama, perch?

 

What has the CBO said about paul Ryan's plan for health care? Or is that also a conspiracy? TIA . . .

[dmarc117]

the problem with globalization is that everyone will experience the great depression now, not just one country. we are all intertwined. the usa was the worlds consumer and we are broke now. good times ahead.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Now we'll never get rid of the welfare state

 

 

 

Is this the death knell for America? I tend to think not, since this happened during the great depression. But then we had a massive world war to boost us out of it. What will get us out of it this time?

 

Hey, Imadinnerjacket is working as fast as he can building his nukes to light the powder keg. The 21st century crusades will begin momentarily.

[Perchoutofwater]

-sigh-

 

So you like the CBO, but feel there is a conspiracy to twist the numbers by that evil ol socialist Obama, perch?

 

What has the CBO said about paul Ryan's plan for health care? Or is that also a conspiracy? TIA . . .

 

Is that how Madcow has instructed her followers to do? Try to paint any conservative as a conspiracy theorist. Well I guess that is better than a racist like we were being called. Are you not smart enough to realized that there are 10 years of taxes for 6 years of benefits? What happens at the end of 10 years?

[bpwallace49]

Is that how Madcow has instructed her followers to do? Try to paint any conservative as a conspiracy theorist. Well I guess that is better than a racist like we were being called. Are you not smart enough to realized that there are 10 years of taxes for 6 years of benefits? What happens at the end of 10 years?

 

Perch . . . why do you still cling to the notion that everything the left does is wrong and evil? Even when the CBO releases info, you paint it as being twisted. Paul Ryans proposl;a hinges on wholesale changes to the tax code. How likely is that?

 

Both sides are corrupt . . and I have little faith that either of them, or both together can come up with anything positive . .