Pick a side

[SEC=UGA]

Good point. But considering that 90% of the guns are from the US . . I am playing the odds . . .

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4695848&page=1

 

Your article states that they are being bought here and smuggled into Mexico, I thought the argument was about the US exporting weapons to other countries.

 

On a side note, these rogue gun dealers should be dealt with in the same manner as a drug smuggler is in Thailand.

[bpwallace49]

Your article states that they are being bought here and smuggled into Mexico, I thought the argument was about the US exporting weapons to other countries.

 

On a side note, these rogue gun dealers should be dealt with in the same manner as a drug smuggler is in Thailand.

 

SEC . . please see my post on the constant manufacturing of these weapons. TIA. (hint: perch started talking about screwdrivers) You are right on the fact that it is our own patriotic gun store owning americans that are happily selling guns to cartel members.

 

Is there really such a huge LEGAL market for some of these weapons?

[SEC=UGA]

SEC . . please see my post on the constant manufacturing of these weapons. TIA. (hint: perch started talking about screwdrivers) You are right on the fact that it is our own patriotic gun store owning americans that are happily selling guns to cartel members. :tup:

 

Is there really such a huge LEGAL market for some of these weapons?

 

I was in a gun store not too long ago trying to buy up as much ammo as possible. The guy in the line next to me was purchasing three tactical 12 gauge semi-autos, a sig .556 assault rifle, a bushmaster AR-15, and he had 3 or 4 pistol cases lined up behind that (didn't get to see what they were as I was checked out and leaving). I was like , but yes there are people that buy in bulk and keep that many weapons. It's kinda like tats, once you get one, you become addicted to them and have to get more.

 

On the ride home, I began to get jealous of the dude, getting that many neat firearms at one time...

[bpwallace49]

Assault weapons made in China and Eastern Europe, resembling the AK-47, have become widely and cheaply available in the U.S. since Congress and the Bush administration refused to extend a ban on such weapons in 2004.

 

Under federal gun laws, gun dealers are not required to report multiple purchases of such weapons because they are classified as rifles.

 

"If you were to go into a gun store and buy 20 of these, there is no requirement by the gun dealer to fill out a multiple sales form," said the ATF's Newell.

 

The drug cartels' weapons of choice include variants of the AK-47, .50-caliber sniper rifles and a Belgian-made pistol called the "cop killer" or "mata policia" because of its ability to pierce a bulletproof vest.

 

"It's in high demand by your violent drug cartels, their assassins in Mexico," said Newell of the ATF. The gun can fire a high-powered round used in a rifle.

 

An ABC News investigation found the "mata policia" and a wide range of assault weapons prominently displayed at gun stores along the border in Texas, the state providing the most weapons to the drug cartels, according to the ATF.

 

Under Texas and federal law, there is no waiting period for the purchase of such weapons and no restriction on how many can be bought at a time.

 

While the Bush administration has asked for an additional $100 million to combat drug violence on the border, only $948,000, less than one percent, has been allocated to the ATF under the White House proposal.

 

"We need a lot more resources," said the ATF's Newell.

 

It sure would be nice if the "war on drugs" was more like the "war against illegal smuggling" going BOTH ways on the border . . .

[Perchoutofwater]

It sure would be nice if the "war on drugs" was more like the "war against illegal smuggling" going BOTH ways on the border . . .

 

Here an idea, actually enforce our freaking laws. Build the freaking barrier that had already been approved. Then deport anyone that is here illegally, and prosecute anyone selling guns illegally. Man the few choke points left along the border with the appropriate number of border patrol officers. If the federal government would do the job it was intended to do instead of telling me I can't have pistol grip, folding stock, and muzzle break on my gun because it looks scary, we wouldn't have any of these problems. Maybe demand goes down, and the manufacturers slow production, but the last thing we need more government infringement in the free market.

 

The screw driver analogy was perfectly valid. Everyone has a drawer full and yet they continue to make more of them. I'd dare say more people have screw drivers (and more of them) than have guns, and yet I bet each year more screwdrivers are built. I'm sure we are shipping all of them off to Mexico too.

[polksalet]

Perch that is where I break from the lockstep of the NRA. I support conceal carry (still not legal in WI where I am from originally) and some other initatives by the NRA, but opposing tightening restrictions on selling illegal weapons and cracking down HARD on the dealers that DO sell them is dumb.

 

It wont repeal the 2nd amendment by any means . . and it is using scare tactics to generate opposition by the weak-minded.

 

Perch, do you support the constant manufacturing of assault weapons, many of which fall inot the hands of illegal dealers? Hell, I own an AR-15 (converted to .22 ammo for my kids to shoot with), but I really dont inderstand the constant producing of these weapons that do not have a civilian use (like hunting) when stockpiles are BOUND to fall into the wrong hands.

 

The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, latex penis.

[billay]

Try now

How exactly would this constitute "an end run around the people for gun control?"

[billay]

What BS? Firearm bands don't make cities safer, that BS?

 

Oh baby don't you want to go

Oh baby don't you want to go

Back to the land of California

to my sweet home Chicago

 

Oh baby don't you want to go

Oh baby don't you want to go

Back to the land of California

to my sweet home Chicago

 

Now one and one is two

two and two is four

I'm heavy loaded baby

I'm booked I gotta go

 

Cryin baby

honey don't you want to go

back to the land of California

to my sweet home Chicago

 

Now two and two is four

four and two is six

You gonna keep monkeyin round here friend-boy

you gonna get your business all in a trick

 

But I'm cryin baby

honey don't you wanna go

Back to the land of California

to my sweet home Chicago

 

Now six and two is eight

eight and two is ten

Friend-boy she trick you one time

she sure gonna do it again

 

But I'm cryin hey hey

baby don't you want to go

back to the land of California

to my sweet home Chicago

 

I'm goin to california

from there to Des Moines Iowa

Somebody will tell me that you

need my help someday

 

cryin hey hey

baby don't you want to go

back to the land of California

to my sweet home Chicago

I prefer this little ditty:

 

got a gun, fact i got two

that's ok man, cuz i love god

glorified version of a pellet gun

feels so manly, when armed

 

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a pellet gun

 

don't think, dumb is strength

never shot at a living thing

glorified version of a pellet gun

feels so manly, when armed

 

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a...

 

always keep it loaded

always keep it loaded

always keep it loaded

 

kindred to be an american...

life comes...i can feel your heart...

life comes...i can feel your heart through your neck...

life comes...i can feel your heart through your neck...

like some...i can steal your heart from your neck...

glorified...glorified...

[SEC=UGA]

I prefer this little ditty:

 

got a gun, fact i got two

that's ok man, cuz i love god

glorified version of a pellet gun

feels so manly, when armed

 

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a pellet gun

 

don't think, dumb is strength

never shot at a living thing

glorified version of a pellet gun

feels so manly, when armed

 

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a pellet gun

glorified version of a...

 

always keep it loaded

always keep it loaded

always keep it loaded

 

kindred to be an american...

life comes...i can feel your heart...

life comes...i can feel your heart through your neck...

life comes...i can feel your heart through your neck...

like some...i can steal your heart from your neck...

glorified...glorified...

 

I like "Daughter" Better.

[TimC]

Ignorant as usual . . . . Milwaukee.

 

Why do you lie, Barack P. Wallace? We all know you were born in Kenya Hawaii. My bet is you don't even have a birth certificate.

[westvirginia]

The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, latex penis.

 

Is that a filter?

[bpwallace49]

Why do you lie, Barack P. Wallace? We all know you were born in Kenya Hawaii. My bet is you don't even have a birth certificate.

 

My attempt to bring about the New World Order has been unmasked . . .

[bpwallace49]

The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, latex penis.

 

Are you that stupid to not know how warfare and weaponry has changed since the 2nd amendment was written? Do you also think you should have your very own nuclear weapon/Abrams Tank/F-22 fighter/nuclear sub? Do you think that you can stop the US military if you own an m-16?

 

Check that . . . my first question was rhetorical . ..

[TimC]

I think the military would help and not oppose us. We'll find out soon enough.

[SEC=UGA]

I think the military would help and not oppose us. We'll find out soon enough.

 

Dammit Tim, I told you not to let that out to the public... Sheesh, last time I tell you anything "Top Secret"

[TimC]

Dammit Tim, I told you not to let that out to the public... Sheesh, last time I tell you anything "Top Secret"

 

Oh, I spilled my sweet tea and biscuit gravy on that part. Mmmm, biscuits and gravy.

[bpwallace49]

I think the military would help and not oppose us. We'll find out soon enough.

 

Then I guess we still wouldnt need automatic assault rifles then? The military would just supply them to us?

[TimC]

Then I guess we still wouldnt need automatic assault rifles then? The military would just supply them to us?

 

I don't know. I'll be flying a stealth fighter.

[Azazello1313]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0052101854.html

 

so...this thread sort of went down some strange paths, but getting back to the original op-ed, which I thought was pretty damn good, here is a reply that I kind of agree with even more:

 

I found a lot to like in the new book by Arthur Brooks, The Battle: How the Fight Between Free Enterprise and Big Government Will Shape America's Future, but also a lot I did not like. His column for the Washington Post on "America's new culture war" gives you the basic idea.

 

This is not the culture war of the 1990s. It is not a fight over guns, gays or abortion. Those old battles have been eclipsed by a new struggle between two competing visions of the country's future. In one, America will continue to be an exceptional nation organized around the principles of free enterprise - limited government, a reliance on entrepreneurship and rewards determined by market forces. In the other, America will move toward European-style statism grounded in expanding bureaucracies, a managed economy and large-scale income redistribution. These visions are not reconcilable. We must choose.

 

On the essential virtues of limited government, reliance on entrepreneurship, and rewards determined by market forces, I am with him. These are vital principles, too much neglected. But his framing of the broader issue is excessively Manichean. Those competing visions of private enterprise and statism are not irreconcilable, as Brooks insists. They have in fact been reconciled. The result is the mixed economy, which is what we all have. It is not a question of preferring one pure model or the other, but of choosing a point on a continuous scale. To put it another way, the US is not nearly as exceptional as Brooks says.

 

His account of what is at stake reminded me that I rebuked George Will a little while ago for saying Obama was putting the Founders' vision of limited government at risk. Please. The constitution survives as a legal text, which is a kind of miracle, I grant you, and a tribute to its amazing flexibility. But its flexibility is the point. The Founders' intent, so far as the limits of federal power are concerned, has been wholly subverted: it had to be, because the political consensus that supports the constitution has changed out of recognition too.

 

Progressives and conservatives alike call the United States a "free-market economy": both sides have an interest in perpetuating this delusion. The idea is ridiculous - as ridiculous as calling Europe's economies "socialist". True, the blend of government and private enterprise is a bit different between the US and the European average, but the models (insofar as it makes sense to talk of a European model) are neighbors not polar opposites.

 

All this was true, obviously, long before 2009. Obama, I agree, does want to narrow the gap a bit more - but it just was not that wide to begin with. Public spending is lower in the US, but not vastly lower once you remember to add state and local spending to federal outlays; the US healthcare anomaly accounts for a lot of the remaining difference.

 

In most respects (labor protections are the main exception) the US regulatory state is at least as comprehensive and intrusive as those in Europe. As for the constant tyranny of petty bureaucracy, let me say as somebody who has lived in Britain and now in the US that it seems even worse here. One's interaction with officials of one sort or another is endless. Admittedly, I am an immigrant living in DC, which demands additional oversight. Who knows what I might get up to? Still, these days, I wince every time I hear, "It's a free country." No, it isn't.

 

Brooks also stresses the cultural differences between Americans and Europeans, and here I think he is right. There is a gap, and it strikes me as pretty wide. America's political culture has not yet surrendered to the inevitability of big government. It keeps pushing back. Measures that would be uncontroversial in Europe - such as universal health care - cause a great fight. But even here Brooks overstates the case, as Bryan Caplan argues.

 

While the median American is almost certainly more pro-market than the median European, he's still a social democrat... Americans only seem staunchly pro-market at the most abstract and symbolic level. On most specific policy issues, the pattern reverses. Americans favor as much or more government spending on almost everything.

 

Well, that is partly because opinion polls ask such dumb questions. But Caplan is surely right. Outcomes in a country where politics is as sensitive to popular opinion as in the US cannot depart too far or for very long from where voters wish to be.

 

You could argue, I suppose, that Obama is currently testing that very proposition. Even on that view, though, he is politically ambitious, rather than a revolutionary warrior intent on destroying the American way.

 

relative to where we are, and particularly relative to where this administration wants to take us, I would like to see more individual liberty, more reliance on the creative destruction of the marketplace, less reliance on government solutions and planning. but a lot of the dualistic ways people try to frame this stuff (as in the arthur brooks op-ed) can be somewhat unhelpful. I guess it helps to get people fired up, and helps channel their political energies.