polksalet Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 As far as I'm concerned, it's just Political Theater.... IMO the Republican Strategy has been to blast anything and everything the current administration says or does, and hope like hell that some of it sticks. And that was the logic Barton was following. Unfortunately for him he wasn't smart enough to understand how out of line his statement was, nor was he smart enough to run the idea thru the party for review. With any luck the people of Texas will elect someone with a little more common sense next time. I agree +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 In response to the title... Yes he did and he is getting a ration of diaper dirt for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 (edited) The most amusing thing in this thread is watching the ABOs tie themselves in knots hammering Obama for taking action after they've been screaming for exactly that for weeks. "We didn't want the action he has taken" you say? Well, what exactly was it you wanted? yeah that's great, he's "taken action" by forcing bp to set up a $20 billion slush fund. that's exactly what all of obama's critics on the left and the right have been asking for. never mind that the oil is still spewing and the cleanup and capture efforts are a complete clusterf*ck with no one in charge, we got us a $20 billion fund for obama to spend as he sees fit, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Edited June 20, 2010 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 As far as I'm concerned, it's just Political Theater.... IMO the Republican Strategy has been to blast anything and everything the current administration says or does, and hope like hell that some of it sticks. And that was the logic Barton was following. Unfortunately for him he wasn't smart enough to understand how out of line his statement was, nor was he smart enough to run the idea thru the party for review. With any luck the people of Texas will elect someone with a little more common sense next time. They will probably support him minus the people whose jobs/property value were harmed by this. Good ol boy Barton will stay in office until he croaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 yeah that's great, he's "taken action" by forcing bp to set up a $20 billion slush fund. that's exactly what all of obama's critics on the left and the right have been asking for. never mind that the oil is still spewing and the cleanup and capture efforts are a complete clusterf*ck with no one in charge, we got us a $20 billion fund for obama to spend as he sees fit, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! One more time. What exactly is it you want him to do? Because you haven't said yet. And yes there is a guy in charge, the Coast Guard admiral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 One more time. What exactly is it you want him to do? Because you haven't said yet. And yes there is a guy in charge, the Coast Guard admiral. It's pretty clear. They want Obama to become the CEO of BP by force and to clean up their mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I think what this all boils down to is that the people on the scene are being strangled by bureaucracy. THere are many articles out there outlining the frustration with about every government agency that is on the scene, from the coast guard to the epa. The coast guard has halted skimming boats for 24+ hours to inspect them for life jackets and fire extinguishers, the epa has stalled building sandbars and the use of disperants while they do impact studies, etc... What officials and the public are looking for is quick and decisive action. THis could have been handled with and executive order temporarily rescinding certain regulations to mover forward with the actual cleanup of the spill. Another interesting thing that has occurred with this 20B dollar fund is that it is not going to be drawn upon "quickly". BP in the first +/- 50 days of the spill had paid out about 12% of the claims and had established a department to handle these claims... The US government is saying it will now be 60 days before any payments are made because they have to set up a department ot handle this. So, if BP was paying out claims more quickly, why is the government suspending their handling of this while the fed gov takes 60 days to set up a dept to handle these much needed payments? Crap like this makes no sense to me. THe crux of the issue is the glacial speed with which the fed gov is moving and the fact that the current admin could increase the speed at which things are handled but are relying on bureaucrats to make decisions and the whole process is getting delayed in debate and red tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I just heard on ESPN that Obama rescinded the call made by the referee in the USA soccer match - USA now gets the win 3-2. I could not find a link but I just heard it on ESPN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I think what this all boils down to is that the people on the scene are being strangled by bureaucracy. THere are many articles out there outlining the frustration with about every government agency that is on the scene, from the coast guard to the epa. The coast guard has halted skimming boats for 24+ hours to inspect them for life jackets and fire extinguishers, the epa has stalled building sandbars and the use of disperants while they do impact studies, etc... What officials and the public are looking for is quick and decisive action. THis could have been handled with and executive order temporarily rescinding certain regulations to mover forward with the actual cleanup of the spill. Another interesting thing that has occurred with this 20B dollar fund is that it is not going to be drawn upon "quickly". BP in the first +/- 50 days of the spill had paid out about 12% of the claims and had established a department to handle these claims... The US government is saying it will now be 60 days before any payments are made because they have to set up a department ot handle this. So, if BP was paying out claims more quickly, why is the government suspending their handling of this while the fed gov takes 60 days to set up a dept to handle these much needed payments? Crap like this makes no sense to me. THe crux of the issue is the glacial speed with which the fed gov is moving and the fact that the current admin could increase the speed at which things are handled but are relying on bureaucrats to make decisions and the whole process is getting delayed in debate and red tape. Two things: The studies, etc are an attempt to avoid the law of unintended consequences. For damn sure if some immediate action produced more harm than good, you and the rest of the braying masses would be all over Obama for that too. Second, if billions went down the pan to rapidly fill fraudulent claims - and you know there will be thousands - that would be yet another stick to beat him with. There is no win here so far as you and your ilk are concerned, just opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Two things: The studies, etc are an attempt to avoid the law of unintended consequences. For damn sure if some immediate action produced more harm than good, you and the rest of the braying masses would be all over Obama for that too. Second, if billions went down the pan to rapidly fill fraudulent claims - and you know there will be thousands - that would be yet another stick to beat him with. There is no win here so far as you and your ilk are concerned, just opportunity. You are right about this and who do you think would do a better job of sifting through fraudulent claims? The govt? Nobody abuses the welfare system. BP seems like they were doing a fine job until the govt stepped in with the whole we can do things better. I did not like it when Obama made the blanket statement that everyone will be made whole because of what happened - I don't think he needed to make such a blanket statement and I am sure there are scammers lining up by the 1000's to steal money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 BP seems like they were doing a fine job until the govt stepped in with the whole we can do things better. IIRC, the fact that BP had only processed 12% of claims precipitated howls of outrage. Yet again, business opened a door for government to walk through. It's always the damn same - if you want to keep government out, simply do what should be done, not what projects best on the next quarter bottom line. Government needs opportunity to stick it's nose in, however much it wants to, and business over and over again provides the excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Two things: The studies, etc are an attempt to avoid the law of unintended consequences. For damn sure if some immediate action produced more harm than good, you and the rest of the braying masses would be all over Obama for that too. Second, if billions went down the pan to rapidly fill fraudulent claims - and you know there will be thousands - that would be yet another stick to beat him with. There is no win here so far as you and your ilk are concerned, just opportunity. Well, then if you are content with the pace at which the government is moving in reaction to this spill, that is fine with me. If you think it is fine that people are now going to have to wait longer to get any type of compensation from BP due to the government now handling the payments, fine with me. If you think that they have taken the appropriate steps to mitigate the amount of oil hitting the coast, so be it. If you honestly think that Obama has done the best job possible with the resources at his disposal, that is your call. If these are things that you are comfortable with, I expect you to commend GWB for the response to Katrina. It had a greater immediate impact to a human population and within 60 days things were pretty well under control. I can't say the same for this fiasco. But I don't think that is something that people of your ilk will be willing to concede. So, you just go on about your day thinking that all is being handled appropriately by the left and their bureaucrats and I'll simply ignore you as a radical left wingnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) If these are things that you are comfortable with, I expect you to commend GWB for the response to Katrina. It's simply not rational to act as if a govt response to a national disaster should have an apple to apple comparison to an industrial disaster caused by a private entity. Edited June 21, 2010 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 It's simply not rational to act as if a govt response to a national disaster should have an apple to apple comparison to an industrial disaster caused by a private entity. Right, especially since a single hurricane is far more dangerous to the survival of the human species than a silly old oil spill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Right, especially since a single hurricane is far more dangerous to the survival of the human species than a silly old oil spill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 It's simply not rational to act as if a govt response to a national disaster should have an apple to apple comparison to an industrial disaster caused by a private entity. You're absolutely right, the government doesn't regulate hurricanes or give them awards, and then ignore them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 It's simply not rational to act as if a govt response to a national disaster should have an apple to apple comparison to an industrial disaster caused by a private entity. Really? So, the government shouldn't have taken any action at Love Canal? They shouldn't have had a hand in the oversight of the clean up of the Exxon Valdez? They shouldn't have enacted the Clean water act that directly deals with corporate waste being poured into water ways? The government should stay out of all disasters that are spawned by corporations, really? How bout OSHA, should we do away with them? We don't need government oversight of the clean up efforts? So if a company doesn't have the resources to make right public lands/property that they destroy the govt. should just be like "eh, f it, we shouldn't have to clean up after a private company." Ok, sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) IIRC, the fact that BP had only processed 12% of claims precipitated howls of outrage. Yet again, business opened a door for government to walk through. It's always the damn same - if you want to keep government out, simply do what should be done, not what projects best on the next quarter bottom line. Government needs opportunity to stick it's nose in, however much it wants to, and business over and over again provides the excuse. Government just simply wants to be re-elected. Nothing more, nothing less. Hence the $20 billion fund to accomplish that. How much of that $20B will go into contested districts? Oh, we'll probably never know. Just like the stimulus fraud. Edited June 21, 2010 by TimC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) It's pleasing to think that those injured by BP will be paid off speedily, but House Republican Joe Barton had a point, though an impolitic one, when he called this a "shakedown." For there already are laws in place that ensure that BP will be held responsible for damages, and the company has said it will comply. So what we have is government transferring property from one party, an admittedly unattractive one, to others, not based on pre-existing laws but on decisions by one man, pay czar Kenneth Feinberg. Feinberg gets good reviews from everyone. But the Constitution does not command "no person ... shall ... be deprived of life, liberty or property, without due process of law except by the decision of a person as wise and capable as Kenneth Feinberg." The Framers stopped at "due process of law." Obama doesn't. "If he sees any impropriety in politicians ordering executives about, upstaging the courts and threatening confiscation, he has not said so," write the editors of The Economist, who then suggest that markets see Obama as "an American version of Vladimir Putin." Except that Putin is an effective thug. ouch Edited June 21, 2010 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Government just simply wants to be re-elected. Nothing more, nothing less. Hence the $20 billion fund to accomplish that. How much of that $20B will go into contested districts? Oh, we'll probably never know. Just like the stimulus fraud. The point remains though that government takes advantage of opportunity offered to it by business failing to keep it's own house in order. I don't think government is any better than business but in many cases it's no worse. Example: I've just been told one of our data line installations has been delayed six weeks for no apparent reason. Since the local phone company is a monopoly and other options don't exist, I can apparently go f myself if I don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 ouch That is a great link Az. I just signed up for a subscription so I could take advantage of the free copy of Rush Limbaugh's new book as a bonus. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Quick question for the right wingers on the boards . . . . what exactly has Obama done poorly in reaction to this? Play a round of golf? Have BP publically set aside a 20 billion dollar fund for immediate recompensation? Somehow not plugged the leak with his superhuman powers? Or somehow have people with technical expertise on deep drilling wells (cause that is a prerequisite for gubmnet work nowadays . . deep core drilling knowledge)? The gubmnet shouldne be in charge of the 20 Billion fund . . . no question there. But what else here is the fault of Obama? (cause you guys like to make this a personal crusade against him . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Quick question for the right wingers on the boards . . . . what exactly has Obama done poorly in reaction to this? Play a round of golf? Have BP publically set aside a 20 billion dollar fund for immediate recompensation? Somehow not plugged the leak with his superhuman powers? Or somehow have people with technical expertise on deep drilling wells (cause that is a prerequisite for gubmnet work nowadays . . deep core drilling knowledge)? The gubmnet shouldne be in charge of the 20 Billion fund . . . no question there. But what else here is the fault of Obama? (cause you guys like to make this a personal crusade against him . . . My biggest problem isn't what they have done so much as what they have stood in the way of doing. They wouldn't allow building of sand berms for 3 weeks. They delayed BP from burning the slick when it was still somewhat manageable. At first they wouldn't allow the use of disbursement chemicals. When they finally allowed disbursement chemicals the allowed them to be used subsurface against the recommendation of many. They would not allow foreign countries who have had similar disasters provide aid. They tried to stop property owners and cities from putting up booms to keep the oil out of their water. I don't think anyone is blaming Barry for the initial incident even though MMS awarded this vary rig, and decided it didn't need an inspection. I don't think anyone is blaming Barry for taking more money from BP than the sleaze Bartlett that everyone is excoriating has taken from all the oil companies combined in his much longer career. I don't think anyone is faulting old Barry for not plugging the damn hole. They are faulting him for his piss poor management skills, in managing the containment effort. He has allowed bureaucracy and turf wars get in the way of containing the spill. Some of us are also criticizing him for stepping outside constitutional bounds to strong arm BP into putting up the $20 Billion trust fund, and wondering what BP is getting in return. Still BP is more to blame than anyone. I wouldn't have any problem with the government banning them from US soils and water based on their safety record which is about 50 times worse than all the other major oil companies combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 They would not allow foreign countries who have had similar disasters provide aid. What now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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