Reality vs. Rhetoric on the Border

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/201...nce-mexico.html

 

Violence is not up on Arizona border despite Mexican drug war

Mexico crime flares, but here, only flickers

 

by Dennis Wagner - May. 2, 2010 12:00 AM

The Arizona Republic

 

NOGALES, Ariz. - Assistant Police Chief Roy Bermudez shakes his head and smiles when he hears politicians and pundits declaring that Mexican cartel violence is overrunning his Arizona border town.

 

"We have not, thank God, witnessed any spillover violence from Mexico," Bermudez says emphatically. "You can look at the crime stats. I think Nogales, Arizona, is one of the safest places to live in all of America."

 

FBI Uniform Crime Reports and statistics provided by police agencies, in fact, show that the crime rates in Nogales, Douglas, Yuma and other Arizona border towns have remained essentially flat for the past decade, even as drug-related violence has spiraled out of control on the other side of the international line. Statewide, rates of violent crime also are down.

 

While smugglers have become more aggressive in their encounters with authorities, as evidenced by the shooting of a Pinal County deputy on Friday, allegedly by illegal-immigrant drug runners, they do not routinely target residents of border towns.

 

In 2000, there were 23 rapes, robberies and murders in Nogales, Ariz. Last year, despite nearly a decade of population growth, there were 19 such crimes. Aggravated assaults dropped by one-third. No one has been murdered in two years.

 

Bermudez said people unfamiliar with the border may be confused because Nogales, Sonora, has become notorious for kidnappings, shootouts and beheadings. With 500 Border Patrol agents and countless other law officers swarming the Arizona side, he said, smugglers pass through as quickly and furtively as possible.

 

"Everywhere you turn, there's some kind of law enforcement looking at you," Bermudez said. "Per capita, we probably have the highest amount of any city in the United States."

 

In Yuma, police spokesman Sgt. Clint Norred said he cannot recall any significant cartel violence in the past several years. Departmental crime records show the amount of bloodshed has remained stable despite a substantial population increase.

 

"It almost seems like Yuma is more of an entryway" for smugglers rather than a combat zone, he said.

 

Perceptions vs. reality

 

Since the murder of Cochise County rancher Robert Krentz by a suspected illegal immigrant in March, politicians and the national press have fanned a perception that the border is inundated with bloodshed and that it's escalating.

 

In a speech on the Senate floor last week, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., declared that the failure to secure that border between Arizona and Mexico "has led to violence - the worst I have ever seen."

 

He reiterated that Saturday after speaking at the West Valley Military Family Day event in Glendale, saying the concern that drug violence could spill across the border remains intense because Mexico's political situation is volatile.

 

"The violence is on the increase," McCain told The Arizona Republic. "The president of Mexico has said that it's a struggle for the existence of the government of Mexico."

 

Congressional members, including Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., and John Shadegg, R-Ariz., sent President Barack Obama a letter asking that National Guard soldiers be sent to the border because "violence in the vicinity of the U.S. Mexico border continues to increase at an alarming rate."

 

And last month, as she signed Arizona's tough new law cracking down on illegal immigrants, Gov. Jan Brewer also called for National Guard troops. The law makes it a state crime to be in Arizona illegally and requires authorities to check documents of people they reasonably suspect to be illegal. Brewer said she signed it to solve what she said is an Arizona "crisis" caused by "border-related violence and crime due to illegal immigration."

 

Clarence Dupnik, the sheriff of Pima County, said there always has been crime associated with smuggling in southern Arizona, but today's rhetoric does not seem to jibe with reality.

 

"This is a media-created event," Dupnik said. "I hear politicians on TV saying the border has gotten worse. Well, the fact of the matter is that the border has never been more secure."

 

Even Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever, among the most strident critics of federal enforcement, concedes that notions of cartel mayhem are exaggerated. "We're not seeing the multiple killings, beheadings and shootouts that are going on on the other side," he said.

 

In fact, according to the Border Patrol, Krentz is the only American murdered by a suspected illegal immigrant in at least a decade within the agency's Tucson sector, the busiest smuggling route among the Border Patrol's nine coverage regions along the U.S.-Mexican border.

 

Still, Dever said, the slaying proved useful to southern Arizonans who are sick of smugglers and immigrants tramping through their lands.

 

"The interest just elevated. And we keep the pressure on because next week something else is going to happen, and the window of opportunity will close," Dever said.

 

Cochise County's crime rate has been "flat" for at least 10 years, the sheriff added. Even in 2000, when record numbers of undocumented immigrants were detained in the area, just 4 percent of the area's violent crimes were committed by illegal aliens.

 

Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villasenor said his town suffers from home invasions and kidnappings involving Josh Gordon smugglers who are undoubtedly tied to Mexican organizations. However, he added, most of those committing the rip-offs are American citizens.

 

"I think the border-influenced violence is getting worse," Villasenor said. "But is it a spillover of Mexican cartel members? No, I don't buy that."

 

More help on the border

 

While the nation's illegal-immigrant population doubled from 1994 to 2004, according to federal records, the violent-crime rate declined 35 percent.

 

More recently, Arizona's violent-crime rate dropped from 512 incidents per 100,000 residents in 2005 to 447 incidents in 2008, the most recent year for which data is available.

 

In testimony to the Senate Committee on Homeland Security last month, Dennis Burke, U.S. attorney for Arizona, noted that Arizona now has more than 6,000 federal law-enforcement agents, with the majority of them employed by the Border Patrol. That represents nearly 10 agents for every mile of international line between Arizona and Sonora.

 

Border Patrol presence has been backed by increases in counter-smuggling technology and intelligence, the establishment of permanent highway checkpoints and a dramatic increase in customs inspectors at U.S. ports.

 

"The border is as secure now as it has ever been," Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano told a Senate panel last week.

 

Given that level of security, Bermudez and others say, it is no wonder that cartel operatives pass through border communities as quickly as possible, avoiding conflicts and attention.

 

In fact, violent-crime data suggest that violence from Mexico leapfrogs the border to smuggling hubs and destinations, where cartel members do take part in murders, home invasions and kidnappings.

 

In Phoenix and Tucson, cartel-related violence is hardly new.

 

In 1996, for example, Valley law-enforcement agents estimated that 40 percent of all homicides in Maricopa County were a result of conflicts involving Mexican narcotics organizations, mostly from Sinaloa state. A decade later, the Attorney General's Office exposed a $2 billion human-smuggling business based in metro Phoenix, where criminals often assaulted illegal aliens while holding them for payment of smuggling fees. More recently, cartel-related home invasions and abductions put Phoenix among the world leaders in kidnappings.

 

'A third country'

 

During a national border security expo in Phoenix last week, David Aguilar, acting deputy commissioner for Customs and Border Protection, said policy makers and the public need to understand that the border is not a fence or a line in the dirt but a broad and complex corridor.

 

"It is," Aguilar explained, "a third country that joins Mexico and the United States."

 

He emphasized that the cartels operate throughout Mexico and the United States, and he noted that those who think of border security in terms of a "juridical line" really don't understand the dynamics.

 

Aguilar said that Juarez, Mexico, is widely regarded as the "deadliest city in the world" because of an estimated 5,000 murders in recent years. Yet right across the border, El Paso, Texas, is listed among the safest towns in America.

 

A review of the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports suggests that Arizona's border towns share El Paso's good fortune. Douglas and Nogales are about the same size as Florence but have significantly lower violent-crime rates. Likewise, Yuma has a population greater than Avondale's but a lower rate of violent offenses.

 

In Nogales, Ariz., residents seem bemused and annoyed by their town's perilous reputation. Yes, they sometimes hear the gunfire across the border. No, they don't feel safe visiting the sister city across the line. But with cops and federal agents everywhere, they see no danger on their streets.

 

"There's no violence here," said Francisco Hernandez, 31, who works in a sign shop and lives on a ranch along the border. "It doesn't drain over, like people are saying."

 

Leo Federico, 61, a retired teacher, said he has been amazed to hear members of Congress call for National Guard troops in the area.

 

"That's politics," he said, shrugging. "It's all about votes. . . . We have plenty of law enforcement."

[bpwallace49]

Leo Federico, 61, a retired teacher, said he has been amazed to hear members of Congress call for National Guard troops in the area.

 

"That's politics," he said, shrugging. "It's all about votes. . . . We have plenty of law enforcement."

 

All too true . .

[WaterMan]

But the news media had led me to believe that the violence from the druggie Mexicans was spreading as fast as AIDS in D.C.

[redrumjuice]

McALLEN — Heavily armed Mexican freshwater pirates have been shaking down U.S. boaters on Falcon Lake, a reservoir and bass fishing haven that straddles the Rio Grande.

 

At least three such incidents have been reported since April 30, the latest on Sunday, according to a Texas Department of Public Safety warning issued Tuesday that linked the muggings to northern Mexico's increasing lawlessness.

 

 

“The robbers are believed to be members of a drug trafficking organization or members of an enforcer group linked to a drug trafficking organization who are ... using AK-47s or AR-15 rifles to threaten their victims,” the DPS statement said. “They appear to be using local Mexican fishermen to operate the boats to get close to American fishermen.”

 

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/pirates_n...e_94200254.html

 

Across Texas, 60,000 babies of noncitizens get U.S. birthright

 

Great news.

[WaterMan]

Great news.

 

Did you read Assistant Police Chief Roy Bermudez feelings on all this violence?

 

Assistant Police Chief Roy Bermudez shakes his head and smiles when he hears politicians and pundits declaring that Mexican cartel violence is overrunning his Arizona border town.

[Savage Beatings]

Leo Federico, 61, a retired teacher, said he has been amazed to hear members of Congress call for National Guard troops in the area.

 

"That's politics," he said, shrugging. "It's all about votes. . . . We have plenty of law enforcement."

 

All too true . .

 

 

Except that the LAW is not being enforced. That's the whole point. We are picking and choosing which laws to enforce here, and turning a blind eye to the ILLEGAL immigrants who are not allowed to be in this country by LAW. Calling in the National Guard to start enforcing the laws that have been ignored is exactly what needs to happen now that we've allowed it to go on unchecked for so long.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Except that the LAW is not being enforced. That's the whole point. We are picking and choosing which laws to enforce here, and turning a blind eye to the ILLEGAL immigrants who are not allowed to be in this country by LAW. Calling in the National Guard to start enforcing the laws that have been ignored is exactly what needs to happen now that we've allowed it to go on unchecked for so long.

 

Yep, all those Canadians over-running Minnesota must make your daily life a living hell.

[Savage Beatings]

Yep, all those Canadians over-running Minnesota must make your daily life a living hell.

 

Minnesota actually has a lot of illegal immigrants. The overall cost to my family is not negligible.

[SeductiveNun]

Yep, all those Canadians over-running Minnesota must make your daily life a living hell.

It's aboot time we put dem hosers back in der place, eh? No more cheap smokes for dem to take back up nort of der border ya know.

[bpwallace49]

Except that the LAW is not being enforced. That's the whole point. We are picking and choosing which laws to enforce here, and turning a blind eye to the ILLEGAL immigrants who are not allowed to be in this country by LAW. Calling in the National Guard to start enforcing the laws that have been ignored is exactly what needs to happen now that we've allowed it to go on unchecked for so long.

 

You DO realize that before the right started frothing at the mouth on this subject, that this current admin has done more about deportations and border enforcement than the last several admins . . right?

 

Just sayin' . . there are plenty of things to get pissed at the current admin for, but on this subject they have actually done more than the last several admins.

 

That is why this is all about politics, and not about policy. In abstract I completely agree with you and the alw should be enforced more stringently for border security. In reality . . . the right fights any possible new expenditure, so where will the funding come from for a massive wall? The dems wont allow for wholesale budget cuts (even though it should be done anyways), and the right is trying to ATTRACT the hispanic vote, not alienate it. That is why this is all about bluster and hot air, and not about what will actually happen.

 

Politics and elections trump what is "right" all the time . . . .

[Puddy]

Minnesota actually has a lot of illegal immigrants. The overall cost to my family is not negligible.

Damn Hmongs.

[millerx]

You DO realize that before the right started frothing at the mouth on this subject, that this current admin has done more about deportations and border enforcement than the last several admins . . right?

 

Just sayin' . . there are plenty of things to get pissed at the current admin for, but on this subject they have actually done more than the last several admins.

This isn't about this admin or that... there has been a disappointment from the "right" on this regardless of the admin (and a major letdown of how the Bush admin handled it to answer your assumption directly). I can only assume that maybe being from Texas (not to mention a republican) and his experiences as their governor, he didn't feel the need to enforce it federally... what he might have felt was that this was a states' rights issue to protect its citizens.

 

That is why this is all about politics, and not about policy. In abstract I completely agree with you and the alw should be enforced more stringently for border security. In reality . . . the right fights any possible new expenditure, so where will the funding come from for a massive wall? The dems wont allow for wholesale budget cuts (even though it should be done anyways), and the right is trying to ATTRACT the hispanic vote, not alienate it. That is why this is all about bluster and hot air, and not about what will actually happen.

 

Politics and elections trump what is "right" all the time . . . .

You're right that this is about politics, but notion of a wall is ludicrous at this point. But a good step in the right direction would be to simply enforce the laws that are in place and add some strength in numbers to do so (whether that be be more ICE agents, national guard, or local law enforcement).

[WaterMan]

Put our soldiers on our own border instead of borders in the Middle East. Where can I vote for that?

[Savage Beatings]

You DO realize that before the right started frothing at the mouth on this subject, that this current admin has done more about deportations and border enforcement than the last several admins . . right?

 

Just sayin' . . there are plenty of things to get pissed at the current admin for, but on this subject they have actually done more than the last several admins.

 

That is why this is all about politics, and not about policy. In abstract I completely agree with you and the alw should be enforced more stringently for border security. In reality . . . the right fights any possible new expenditure, so where will the funding come from for a massive wall? The dems wont allow for wholesale budget cuts (even though it should be done anyways), and the right is trying to ATTRACT the hispanic vote, not alienate it. That is why this is all about bluster and hot air, and not about what will actually happen.

 

Politics and elections trump what is "right" all the time . . . .

 

I totally disagree with you. Were past Administrations worse? Sure. So what? Does that mean this Administration gets a pass? Hell no. Doing something minimally to try to make it look like you care is not good enough. And that's what Obama is doing. This is the problem... every Administration does jack squat about it, even though a clear majority of the people in the nation want them to fix the problem. This is why it is NOT about politics, because both sides of the aisle suck ass at dealing with it the way that we want them to.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Talk about bad kharma.

[Azazello1313]

You DO realize that before the right started frothing at the mouth on this subject, that this current admin has done more about deportations and border enforcement than the last several admins . . right?

 

Just sayin' . . there are plenty of things to get pissed at the current admin for, but on this subject they have actually done more than the last several admins.

 

That is why this is all about politics, and not about policy. In abstract I completely agree with you and the alw should be enforced more stringently for border security. In reality . . . the right fights any possible new expenditure, so where will the funding come from for a massive wall? The dems wont allow for wholesale budget cuts (even though it should be done anyways), and the right is trying to ATTRACT the hispanic vote, not alienate it. That is why this is all about bluster and hot air, and not about what will actually happen.

 

Politics and elections trump what is "right" all the time . . . .

 

one question though...how many of the things you are giving "this administration" credit for were put into place by the last administration? the extra border guards and such compared with say 5 years ago were, to my knowledge, all put in motion late during the bush administration.

 

not to give bush any credit here, his presidency failed miserably on this issue, and truth be told he and his party paid a pretty serious political price for it.

 

bottom line is that, while the border may be marginally more secure than it was say 5 or 10 years ago thanks in part to some political gestures and half-measures by this administration and the last one (in whatever proportion), there are still hundreds of thousands of people bascially crossing back and forth at will. I would argue that ignoring this glaring fact to focus on marginal improvements and blaming the past administration represents quite a triumph of rhetoric over reality.

[bpwallace49]

I totally disagree with you. Were past Administrations worse? Sure. So what? Does that mean this Administration gets a pass? Hell no. Doing something minimally to try to make it look like you care is not good enough. And that's what Obama is doing. This is the problem... every Administration does jack squat about it, even though a clear majority of the people in the nation want them to fix the problem. This is why it is NOT about politics, because both sides of the aisle suck ass at dealing with it the way that we want them to.

 

So you believe that this issue is as simple as flipping a switch and magically getting rid of all illegal immigrants? The current admin has more deportations thus far than the previous one has in 8 years, so "enforcement of laws" has actually INCREASED, correct? and this was BEFORE Arizona passed their law . . . so it isnt doing something just for the sake of LOOKING like they are doing something.

 

Like it or not, enforcement of the laws has INCREASED . . so going off on that isnt correct. Blaming Obama isnt helping the problem either, as this HAS to come from both parties.

 

Now for a comprehensive solution, I agree with you, something needs to be done. Now do you actually think with the current acrimony that ANYTHING will be done that actually solves the problem? This is an AMERICAN issue . . not a left vs right issue, and with the current pissant party squabbles, NOTHING will be presented that will be "politically acceptable" to both parties.

 

Which is why .. (back to the original post) this is all about politics, and not about what is right or wrong . . . politically is good to grandstand, but realistically the parties cant agree on anything now. Case in point . . . Gov. Brewer was in danger of not getting re-elected, and NEVER campaigned about being tougher on illegal immigration. All of a sudden she is slipping in the polls, and becomes the caped crusader of Arizona and makes common cause with the authors of the bill. Now she is riding high . . . . . because it is all about POLITICS, and more importantly, her geting re-elected.

[TimC]

So you believe that this issue is as simple as flipping a switch and magically getting rid of all illegal immigrants? .

 

[Off-topic] No, but I do know how to flip a switch and get rid of all the Middle East.

[bpwallace49]

one question though...how many of the things you are giving "this administration" credit for were put into place by the last administration? the extra border guards and such compared with say 5 years ago were, to my knowledge, all put in motion late during the bush administration.

 

not to give bush any credit here, his presidency failed miserably on this issue, and truth be told he and his party paid a pretty serious political price for it.

 

bottom line is that, while the border may be marginally more secure than it was say 5 or 10 years ago thanks in part to some political gestures and half-measures by this administration and the last one (in whatever proportion), there are still hundreds of thousands of people bascially crossing back and forth at will. I would argue that ignoring this glaring fact to focus on marginal improvements and blaming the past administration represents quite a triumph of rhetoric over reality.

 

Little to none Az . . . the current deportations are stepping up of workplace investigations, employer audits and criminal checks of prisoners in the system. the actual border security is a completely different matter, and BOTH Bush and Obama have mainly done lip service in this area. Hell . . if we didnt have eternal wars in Asia, bring the troops home and deploy them on the border for all I care . . .

 

The FEDERAL act of stepping up investigations and deportations has happened lately . . in the last year. If there is some magical connection to Bush doing it, then good for him (and good for you too!). Because it is a good idea no matter who came up with it.

 

The next step is INCREASING the funding and capability to deport MORE and do MORE employer audits and investigations to hit them at the reason they are here . . for jobs. But good luck getting THAT through Congress with a Dem majority (that wont go after their voters) and a Republican minority (that wont agree to spend money, cause they would look hypocritical if they do).

[bpwallace49]

[Off-topic] No, but I do know how to flip a switch and get rid of all the Middle East.

 

Then I hope you Vette runs on biofuel . . ..

[Azazello1313]

are deportations really up, wally? here is the data from the ICE website. and here is that info plugged into a graph.

[SEC=UGA]

Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. $113 Billion a Year, Study Finds...

 

Reality...

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-imm...ory?id=10699317

[caddyman]

are deportations really up, wally? here is the data from the ICE website. and here is that info plugged into a graph.

Give him a few minutes. He has to go see what Ezra Klein says and then post a reply. The sooner everyone on this board realizes wally is a pitiful partisan hack, the better. I don't even know poor Brian(like his little friend from san diego), but I feel bad watching this. It is painful.

[bpwallace49]

are deportations really up, wally? here is the data from the ICE website. and here is that info plugged into a graph.

 

Az . . . according to the total removals from 2007-2010 per year (from your site) the numbers are as follows.

 

2007 . . .291,060

2008 . . . 369,221

2009 . . .389,834

2010 . . .(still not over yet) 292,663

 

I would consider that an "increase" wouldnt you?

 

And here is a clip from your beloved Fox News in an interview where Greta Van Susteren interviews one of the heads of ICE . . .

 

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-the-recor...ving-illegal-im

 

You can try and partisan this all you want . . , I dont give a crap about Bush vs Obama on this issue, because this should be about AMERICA. The idea that this is being used for political hay has been debated ad nauseum . . .

[bpwallace49]

Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. $113 Billion a Year, Study Finds...

 

Reality...

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-imm...ory?id=10699317

 

That is misleading in many ways . . . the study assumes that 100% of illegal immigrants get paid cash and pay zero taxes. That is a false assumption.

 

Especially when all illegal immigrants that DONT get paid in cash, pay taxes and SS benefits that they are not eligible for, so they pay into the system that they cant use.

 

Somewhere in the middle lies the truth on the real "cost" that can never be accurately measured. Studies like that are used to fan the flames of the politicans . . .