Greedy federal workers

[westvirginia]

Irate federal workers in New York had a few choice words for President Obama's decision Monday to freeze their wages for the next two years.

 

"That's why Obama's ratings are below [ex-President George W.] Bush's, and that's hard to be unless you're Osama Bin Laden," said Rosemarie Clemmens of Manhattan.

 

Clemmens, who works for the Social Security Administration, said she voted for Obama but won't again. "I can't wait until I retire," the life-long government worker added.

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2...l#ixzz16tr3UtbA

[bpwallace49]

Wow Obama is making a common sense fiscal decision and not pandering to his base . . how anti-politician of him.

[Square]

I'm not real psyched about the federal wage freeze as it'll cost my household over 20k the next few years. For most of the employees it won't matter much because they still have with in grade raises and bonuses.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I'm not real psyched about the federal wage freeze as it'll cost my household over 20k the next few years. For most of the employees it won't matter much because they still have with in grade raises and bonuses.

 

Ouch. It's a two year freeze in wages right? That's quite an increase over two years...

 

My wife and I both work for the same company and got the max increase allowed this year...2%. Nowhere near that 20K figure unfortunately. Better than nothing, or worse a wage cut though...

[Azazello1313]

meh, they would have been small raises anyway, as SS has been stiffed last year and this year, and the wage inflation indexes have been basically flat.

 

politically, there's no way obama could have done anything BUT this tiny, yet sensible gesture. but it sure is funny to see some on the left act like it's the end of the world. my favorite that I saw recently was this, by mark kleiman:

 

Not only does the salary imbalance limit the government’s capacity to hire and retain the best, it also challenges the loyalty of those who are currently on the government payroll to the public interest. Every 0-6 or flag officer, and every high-level procurement official at the Defense Department, knows that the way to personal wealth is pleasing the defense contractors who provide such cushy post-retirement employment to those who, while drawing a paycheck from Uncle Sam, didn’t fight too hard to keep costs down or (God forbid!) try to kill any useless weapons systems.

 

Despite this, and despite the continual barrage of hatred directed at the people who keep the wheels turning, the Federal government manages to attract and retain some first-rate people (along with the usual proportion of turkeys). The President properly referred to the damage done to them by his decision. But he neglected to mention the damage done to the public.

 

What’s terrifying is the possibility that he hasn’t thought seriously about the problem: that’s the downside of electing a President without long experience in Washington, or any experience as a manager. So far, he has given very little indication that he understands the importance of all those GS-15s and SES employees who actually do the work.

 

hmm, you know you might be on to something there, mr. died-in-the-wool lefty blogger strange though that you would only see it in this rare moment of modest fiscal sanity.

[Ursa Majoris]

My wife and I both work for the same company and got the max increase allowed this year...2%. Nowhere near that 20K figure unfortunately. Better than nothing, or worse a wage cut though...

We've had wage increases every year averaging about 3%. God knows the company had a great opportunity to go flat at least one year since pretty much everyone else in Minnesota was doing so, or taking hugh cuts or worse, but they've managed to give increases every time. Lucky to be here.

[BeeR]

So far, he has given very little indication that he understands the importance of all those GS-15s and SES employees who actually do the work

...and yet perhaps understands all too well all those GS and SES employees who are as lazy as they are stupid, worthless effing slugs who are quite overpaid.

 

So to a large extent, he's dissin the brotherhood! Must be his honky half coming out.

[bushwacked]

What's up with the links?

[gbpfan1231]

We've had wage increases every year averaging about 3%. God knows the company had a great opportunity to go flat at least one year since pretty much everyone else in Minnesota was doing so, or taking hugh cuts or worse, but they've managed to give increases every time. Lucky to be here.

Is it safe to assume you took that 3% and paid it as extra taxes to the govt? You seem to think the rich should be treated different because they can afford it - others did not get a 3% raise and you did so I guess you can afford to pay more taxes?

 

Let me guess - you did not.

[Ursa Majoris]

Is it safe to assume you took that 3% and paid it as extra taxes to the govt? You seem to think the rich should be treated different because they can afford it - others did not get a 3% raise and you did so I guess you can afford to pay more taxes?

 

Let me guess - you did not.

Um, yes, I paid increased taxes on the 3%. What point is it you keep trying to make?

[gbpfan1231]

Um, yes, I paid increased taxes on the 3%. What point is it you keep trying to make?

Did you pay more than what you were supposed to on your own free will? You have said in other topics that the rich should be treated different with paying higher taxes because they can. Now it looks like you can also but I am sure you did not. Don't you want to help the economy like the rich are being asked to do?

 

I know I am being a smart a$$ but it really bothers me that people want the rich to be treated different just because they can afford it but those same people don't do what they preach.

[Ursa Majoris]

Did you pay more than what you were supposed to on your own free will? You have said in other topics that the rich should be treated different with paying higher taxes because they can. Now it looks like you can also but I am sure you did not. Don't you want to help the economy like the rich are being asked to do?

 

I know I am being a smart a$$ but it really bothers me that people want the rich to be treated different just because they can afford it but those same people don't do what they preach.

We are all treated differently because of progressive taxation rates. I agree with progressive taxation.

 

If the tax rates we currently have are reverted to pre-Bush levels, I will not complain. I will accept it as my contribution to balancing the budget, just as I would expect everyone else to.

 

What is not acceptable is to want the tax rates extended without making any mention of their colossal ten-year cost yet at the same time whine about the debt and deficits.

[bushwacked]

What is not acceptable is to want the tax rates extended without making any mention of their colossal ten-year cost yet at the same time whine about the debt and deficits.

 

Exactly, in this day with our federal debt and deficits, largely attributable to federal spending over the last decade, it is perfectly legitimate to consider extending the Bush tax cuts, in many ways, as a massive spending program.

 

The rate of spending has been way too high since the cuts were taxed, we had to pay the piper sometime, better now than later. Everyone who supported the Iraqi war and tax cuts really has no room to protest, IMO.

Edited December 2, 2010 by bushwacked

[Jimmy Neutron]

We've had wage increases every year averaging about 3%. God knows the company had a great opportunity to go flat at least one year since pretty much everyone else in Minnesota was doing so, or taking hugh cuts or worse, but they've managed to give increases every time. Lucky to be here.

 

Same here and I regularly count my blessings.

[redrumjuice]

I want to pay more taxes to fund ant jesus.

 

I want to pay more taxes to buy lacretia an iphone.

 

I want to pay more taxes so joe the plumber can receive unemployment benefits forever.

 

I want to pay more taxes to fund PBS and npr, cause this is what the constitution says.

 

I want to pay more taxes so that miguel in california can pay in state tuition even though he is illegal.

 

I want to pay more in taxes in farm subsidies for farmers growing corn for the ethanol boondoggle.

 

I want to pay more in taxes so John Conyers son can drive around in an escalade and scalp tickets.

 

I want to pay more in taxes to send a tax credit of several thousand dollars to people with no income.

 

I want to pay more in taxes so the vice president of Afghinstan can walk around with $300 million in cash.

 

I want to pay more in taxes so much.... if you keep doing this to me, I will draw down and blow your freakin head off.

[gbpfan1231]

Exactly, in this day with our federal debt and deficits, largely attributable to federal spending over the last decade, it is perfectly legitimate to consider extending the Bush tax cuts, in many ways, as a massive spending program.

 

The rate of spending has been way too high since the cuts were taxed, we had to pay the piper sometime, better now than later. Everyone who supported the Iraqi war and tax cuts really has no room to protest, IMO.

You and Ursa are missing my main point - I am OK with extending the tax cuts or OK with even ending them - either way I want it to be for EVERYONE - like Ursa said there is a progressive tax - I am not for extending the tax cuts for everyone except the people making over 500k or 250k - to do that would be treating rich people different to pay for the other massive spending.

 

I said a while back - why don't we pay a higher tax on things that the rich buy or maybe scan the ID of a rich person and if that person made a lot of money he/she can pay higher taxes on groceries. That seems fair - hey they can afford it. Let's continue to fund massive spending and entitlements for the poor (that have IPhones, Blackberry's, Marlboro's, Red Bulls)

[Square]

Ouch. It's a two year freeze in wages right? That's quite an increase over two years...

 

My wife and I both work for the same company and got the max increase allowed this year...2%. Nowhere near that 20K figure unfortunately. Better than nothing, or worse a wage cut though...

My wife is a civilian but she works at a Veterans Hospital. She took a new job less than a year ago within the hospital for many things but obviously higher pay was a main cause. Government pay tables go by Grade levels and then steps within that grade. So for easy numbers let's say my wife's old job was a 10 (she is actually higher than a grade 10). Now she took this next job that was within the 11-12 range of pay. Since she was a 10, she has to start at 11 for the first year but after that she'll be moved up to a 12. Now the difference between 10 and 12 is at least 10k per year. She'll still get bonuses and "within grade" steps that are slight increases but she'll have to stay at the beginning grade now for 2 years (making her overall time in purgatory 3 years).

 

If this would have happened after she already had been moved up to her highest grade, it wouldn't have made any difference to her. So, we are just a fringe family that gets to make 20+k less for the next two years because the government chose to drop this now. The bonuses and within grade steps are also based on your grade level, so if you fast forward 3 years she could have either been moved up after one year and made bonus (which is 1-5% bonus off your base) or step increases on that higher amount for those additional 2 years. I'm fighting myself from doing the math, because I'm guessing that about 10% of my mortgage could have been paid with the difference. Oh, and she is pregnant with our second child so the timing is awesome.

 

Had she known that random Washington acts could cause her to lose this much money, she might have stayed at the Medical Center that she was at before.

[Perchoutofwater]

My wife is a civilian but she works at a Veterans Hospital. She took a new job less than a year ago within the hospital for many things but obviously higher pay was a main cause. Government pay tables go by Grade levels and then steps within that grade. So for easy numbers let's say my wife's old job was a 10 (she is actually higher than a grade 10). Now she took this next job that was within the 11-12 range of pay. Since she was a 10, she has to start at 11 for the first year but after that she'll be moved up to a 12. Now the difference between 10 and 12 is at least 10k per year. She'll still get bonuses and "within grade" steps that are slight increases but she'll have to stay at the beginning grade now for 2 years (making her overall time in purgatory 3 years).

 

If this would have happened after she already had been moved up to her highest grade, it wouldn't have made any difference to her. So, we are just a fringe family that gets to make 20+k less for the next two years because the government chose to drop this now. The bonuses and within grade steps are also based on your grade level, so if you fast forward 3 years she could have either been moved up after one year and made bonus (which is 1-5% bonus off your base) or step increases on that higher amount for those additional 2 years. I'm fighting myself from doing the math, because I'm guessing that about 10% of my mortgage could have been paid with the difference. Oh, and she is pregnant with our second child so the timing is awesome.

 

Had she known that random Washington acts could cause her to lose this much money, she might have stayed at the Medical Center that she was at before.

 

At least she isn't getting a pay cut. My employees will be seeing a 20-30% pay cut at the first of the year, and I myself will be working to try not to lose a ton of money. In other words I won't be making a dime next year, but will be paying money for the joy of owning a business. The reason we are at where we are today as government has continually overstepped it's mandate.

[bpwallace49]

We are all treated differently because of progressive taxation rates. I agree with progressive taxation.

 

If the tax rates we currently have are reverted to pre-Bush levels, I will not complain. I will accept it as my contribution to balancing the budget, just as I would expect everyone else to.

 

What is not acceptable is to want the tax rates extended without making any mention of their colossal ten-year cost yet at the same time whine about the debt and deficits.

 

Agreed.

 

Also, I have gbpfan on ignore . . and it is HILARIOUS when I see what he is saying quoted by others.

[bpwallace49]

At least she isn't getting a pay cut. My employees will be seeing a 20-30% pay cut at the first of the year, and I myself will be working to try not to lose a ton of money. In other words I won't be making a dime next year, but will be paying money for the joy of owning a business. The reason we are at where we are today as government has continually overstepped it's mandate.

 

If there was no gubmnet, and people still didnt hire your construction firm, who would you blame then?

[redrumjuice]

I'm trying to stay above water and people whine about not getting a big enough raise?

 

I bet Kid Cid and darin would like to worry how big their raise was going to be.

 

I don't taxes raised on ANYONE because the gov't already has way to much $$$ it wastes. They cannot be trusted with the citizens income. No more. Do you like paying for the retirement of a 40 year old french bus driver? Well you are.

[Azazello1313]

My wife is a civilian but she works at a Veterans Hospital. She took a new job less than a year ago within the hospital for many things but obviously higher pay was a main cause. Government pay tables go by Grade levels and then steps within that grade. So for easy numbers let's say my wife's old job was a 10 (she is actually higher than a grade 10). Now she took this next job that was within the 11-12 range of pay. Since she was a 10, she has to start at 11 for the first year but after that she'll be moved up to a 12. Now the difference between 10 and 12 is at least 10k per year. She'll still get bonuses and "within grade" steps that are slight increases but she'll have to stay at the beginning grade now for 2 years (making her overall time in purgatory 3 years).

 

unless I'm misunderstanding what it entails, I don't see how the "pay freeze" (which basically just means no COLAs for the next couple years) affects any of this. people can still get promoted to higher grades if those positions are open. now if there's some other budget crunch policy where higher grade vacancies are left open or there's some sort of hiring freeze that prevents promotions, that's a different story. but I haven't heard about any hiring or promotion freeze. this may vary by agency.

 

Had she known that random Washington acts could cause her to lose this much money, she might have stayed at the Medical Center that she was at before.

 

dude. being subject to random acts of washington is part of the deal. in exchange, you get the greatest job security anywhere, top notch fringe benefits, pay at or above most comparable private sector pay, columbus day and MLK day off, raises when most of the rest of the country were either looking at layoffs, reduced hours, or, at best, pay freezes. yeah on net I think it's still a pretty good bargain

Edited December 2, 2010 by Azazello1313

[The Holy Roller]

When I became a teacher in 1989 our district had three years of wage freezes. We survived.

[Perchoutofwater]

When I became a teacher in 1989 our district had three years of wage freezes. We survived.

 

This district my wife works for announced district wide wage freezes last week. I'm probably going to loose somewhere between $250,000 and $500,000 next year which is my portion of my company's losses, which I can directly attribute to projects canceled due to Obamacare. Forgive me if I don't feel sorry for the poor federal workers that in most cases are already paid more than people in comparable positions in the private sector.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Perchoutofwater

[Square]

unless I'm misunderstanding what it entails, I don't see how the "pay freeze" (which basically just means no COLAs for the next couple years) affects any of this. people can still get promoted to higher grades if those positions are open. now if there's some other budget crunch policy where higher grade vacancies are left open or there's some sort of hiring freeze that prevents promotions, that's a different story. but I haven't heard about any hiring or promotion freeze. this may vary by agency.

You not understanding doesn't make it less true. If the COLA table stays the same it doesn't change much. Step improvements are based off longevity of hire. She already took the "promotion" but the rule is that if you come from a 10 to take a 11 - 12 job, you have to spend one year at the lower level. If she was already at the higher grade than she would still be up for her promotions for step increases based off her years of experience. So instead of being a grade 12 at step 3 in three years, she'll be a grade 11 at step 4 and then have to start over at grade 12, step 1. Government employment pay scale is very much weighted towards seniority. I'm not saying I agree with it, but this strange set back is something very few actually have to deal with. Like I said, we are just some fringe unseen consequence. Most people I've talked to are fine with the current tables and it's not a real big deal to them.

 

dude. being subject to random acts of washington is part of the deal.

Well, you hear about that but it's a little different when something this strange catches you just in between items. Like I said, if this happened a few months later we would be fine.

 

in exchange, you get the greatest job security anywhere, top notch fringe benefits, pay at or above most comparable private sector pay, columbus day and MLK day off, raises when most of the rest of the country were either looking at layoffs, reduced hours, or, at best, pay freezes. yeah on net I think it's still a pretty good bargain

Have you ever worked for a government hospital? Not being a smartass, but it just doesn't sound like you are familiar with the actual place. My wife doesn't get top notch fringe benefits (I had better retirement, insurance, and benefits when I worked for GE) and her pay is very comparable to normal hospitals in our area. None of the hospitals she has previously worked at since getting her Masters have had any layoffs (3 of the largest in Omaha). So you when you compare it to real life in my current area it doesn't measure up. I know other places have had terrible economies but locally we've done fairly well. My sales agency is a few percent off of previous years (which were record years). Yes, we've had to take some market share but we have low unemployment and overall the economy is still moving here (our weather sucks though).

 

I know everyone has their own story about people going out of business so I'm not asking for pity as we will do fine because we control our costs (something Congress doesn't understand). But being a middle class family and losing at least 20K (ETA: just checked the charts and it'll probably be about 32K) over 3 years is a fairly dramatic amount when it has nothing to do with how your local business has been running or the current climate of the surrounding employment area. Our cost of living in Nebraska is fairly modest as well so that amount could be seen as higher in more expensive areas to live.