billay Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 When did the military become a democracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 as I see it, the goal of the military is to be the most effective fighting force possible, not to be at the vanguard when it comes to spreading civil rights. if at one time, its leaders were convinced that letting women fight alongside men would reduce the military's effectiveness, and I have no basis to challenge that assertion, then I think they would have been right to exclude women from fighting on the front lines. even with race or religion, though that area is murkier in my mind. if the army is full of bigots, and integration will somehow make them tangibly less effective, then segregate. thanklfully, that is not the case any more, but it may have been 70 years ago. again, the goal of the military is to be the most effective fighting force. period. in practice, that may mean following the rest of society rather than leading when it comes to tolerance and integration type issues. I think that is a price worth paying. I am all for gay marriage, I just think it is best to give the military experts some say over this particular issue. I guess I disagree. I think that the trampling of one's rights supersedes any potential disharmony in the military. (of course, I doubt that there would be much, if any noticeable, disharmony) Agreed, and it is hardly like the military would be "leading the charge" in terms of welcoming gays. They're very much behind the curve as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Men (and women) in the service often are in very close quarters. Open showers, bunk mates, and it is not at all uncommon for a "service person" to be naked in front of each other. Any comparison to other reilious or racial issues are a completely moot point and totally unrelated issue. As a veteran, I can say without being homophobic that openly gay men would indeed have been a pretty big problem. Even straight guys were terrified of the thought they might involuntartilly pop a woody at the wrong time. I am for gay rights, I think any "domestic partnership" should be allowed all the benefits society has in place for married hetero sexual couple. But it's aint no marriage, and openly gay men in the service is a very, very bad idea. I'm even on the fence about women in the miltary. When I was in, 90% of them could not keep up and eneded up behind a typewriter someplace. Worse, when a married man and a married woman get seperated from spouses for a long period of time together, bad things can and often do happen. When it comes to the military, it isn't a democracy, and it isn't "fair". It's about having the best fighting force the services can field to defend the country's interest. Perhaps a bit Macheavellian, but it is what it is. The military is not a form of the government. It has by necessity, it's own rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrumjuice Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 I think that the trampling of one's rights supersedes any potential disharmony in the military. Thank ALLAH people like you can't cut it in the military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrumjuice Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 When I was in, 90% of them could not keep up and eneded up behind a typewriter someplace. Exactly, and what happens when they let private untateve in who is openly ghey, but they don't want to put her in a combat unit. She gets a safe gig somewhere, taking a spot that could be reserved for a real warrior while on downtime between tours. Letting gheys in would put more real men in danger as all the womens and pinks get stateside gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Thank ALLAH people like you can't cut it in the military. schtick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 I think it unfair that heterosexual men don't design clothes for women or become interior decorators. It's not fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 This is the part that doesn't wash: Everyone knows that there are gays serving in the military right now. And there seems to be some confirmation that they are serving in combat. It is already happening. Yet, most of the concerns with gays in the military involve what might happen given close quarters and combat. But what ever might happen would seemingly be happening. Because, again, there are already gays in the military, they're just not allowed to say it. So, it comes down to what change allowing them to not have to lie about who they are. Do you honestly think that there are gays in the military that are just dying to make a pass at someone of the same sex but the only reason they're not is because they're afraid to get outed? Don't you think they'll be pretty damned careful about how they conduct themselves? I mean, it's still the military. Just because they're allowed to be gay, doesn't mean they're stupid enough to think that every jughead in there is going to be cool about it. Do you think that once they're allowed to put a picture of their boyfriend in their locker that they'll get so fired up they'll want to turn the barracks into Studio 54? Do you think a bunch of hairstylists are all of a sudden going to want to go into the military. That all they've ever wanted to do is run a bathhouse, but now that they can be in the army and be out, they're going to sign up? It's still the effing military. So, then it comes down to this. Here in the US, arguably the greatest country in the world. We have a law that basically says, if you're gay, just lie about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_gop_liars Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Exactly, and what happens when they let private untateve in who is openly ghey, but they don't want to put her in a combat unit. She gets a safe gig somewhere, taking a spot that could be reserved for a real warrior while on downtime between tours. Letting gheys in would put more real men in danger as all the womens and pinks get stateside gigs. As much as you would like to think that the men and woman in the military are 6th graders, they are in fact professionals and they act like professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 As much as you would like to think that the men and woman in the military are 6th graders, they are in fact professionals and they act like professionals. Rumredjews hates our troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrumjuice Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 As much as you would like to think that the men and woman in the military are 6th graders, they are in fact professionals and they act like professionals. I am quite close to many more than you kommrad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_gop_liars Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 I am quite close to many more than you kommrad. I'm sure you are, I would expect nothing less. As far as heterosexual military personnel, I know quite a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 I'm sure you are, I would expect nothing less. As far as heterosexual military personnel, I know quite a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 What did the blue collar comedy guys say about this??? Let the marines go in first and kick some ass, send the women in their once a month when they are pre-menstrual and send the gay guys in after that to clean up and hang curtains??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 There's gays in the military? When did that happen? And how come we don't have a Gay Forum here at the Huddle? Would no one use it? Just wondering..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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