Texas cracks down on illegal immigrants!

[bpwallace49]

Proposed Texas immigration law contains convenient loophole for ‘the help’

By Brett Michael Dykes

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EmailPrint..By Brett Michael Dykes brett Michael Dykes – Wed Mar 2, 12:11 pm ET

Texas has long been a hotbed of controversy on immigration issues. And a proposed immigration bill in the Texas state House is sure to raise more than a few eyebrows. The bill would make hiring an "unauthorized alien" a crime punishable by up to two years in prison and a $10,000 fine, unless that is, they are hired to do household chores.

 

Yes, under the House Bill 2012 introduced by a tea party favorite state Rep. Debbie Riddle -- who's been saying for some time that she'd like to see Texas institute an Arizona-style immigration law -- hiring an undocumented maid, caretaker, lawnworker or any type of houseworker would be allowed. Why? As Texas state Rep. Aaron Pena, also a Republican, told CNN, without the exemption, "a large segment of the Texas population" would wind up in prison if the bill became law.

 

"When it comes to household employees or yard workers it is extremely common for Texans to hire people who are likely undocumented workers," Pena told the news giant. "It is so common it is overlooked."

 

Jon English, Rep. Riddle's chief of staff explained that the exemption was an attempt to avoid "stifling the economic engine" in Texas, which today is, somewhat ironically, celebrating its declaring independence from Mexico in 1836.

 

"Excepting household workers from a anti-immigration laws renders the law impotent and self-contradictory, just like the current U.S. immigration policy, of which it is almost a perfect microcosm," legal ethics writer Jack Marshall wrote on his blog. "It guarantees a measure without integrity that sends a mixed enforcement message and does nothing to stop the long-standing deplorable 'we don't want you but somebody has to do those menial jobs' attitude that has paralyzed our immigration policy for decades."

 

Rep. Riddle made headlines last year when she claimed unnamed FBI officials had told her that pregnant women from the Middle East were traveling to America as tourists to give birth, and then raising their children to be terrorists who could later enter the U.S. freely as citizens -- so-called "terror babies," a devious offshoot of "anchor babies." She became somewhat infamous on the web when she stumbled repeatedly in a CNN interview about the claims, complaining later that host Anderson Cooper's line of questioning was more intense than she had prepared for.

 

"They did not tell me you were going to grill me on specific information that I was not ready to give to you tonight," Riddle said when Cooper pressed her for more details. "They did not tell me that, sir."

 

They start out with a great idea . . and then fall short of the goal miserably.

[Yukon Cornelius]

[TimC]

I don't understand. How else is your house supposed to get clean and your grass cut?

[Perchoutofwater]

While I don't necessarily agree with the exception I certainly understand it, and I would think that anyone that gave any real thought to it would as well. The majority of illegals work for businesses, not as "household help". So the bill still targets the majority of the illegals. Additionally most individuals do not know how to do the E-verify process, whereas businesses should. This basically makes sure that whey your Granny who has never laid hands on a computer hires Man-well to do her lawn she isn't thrown in jail. It does allow business owners to be thrown in jail. I would think that anyone with a lick of since would understand why it was written this way.

[bpwallace49]

While I don't necessarily agree with the exception I certainly understand it, and I would think that anyone that gave any real thought to it would as well. The majority of illegals work for businesses, not as "household help". So the bill still targets the majority of the illegals. Additionally most individuals do not know how to do the E-verify process, whereas businesses should. This basically makes sure that whey your Granny who has never laid hands on a computer hires Man-well to do her lawn she isn't thrown in jail. It does allow business owners to be thrown in jail. I would think that anyone with a lick of since would understand why it was written this way.

 

Yes, under the House Bill 2012 introduced by a tea party favorite state Rep. Debbie Riddle -- who's been saying for some time that she'd like to see Texas institute an Arizona-style immigration law -- hiring an undocumented maid, caretaker, lawnworker or any type of houseworker would be allowed. Why? As Texas state Rep. Aaron Pena, also a Republican, told CNN, without the exemption, "a large segment of the Texas population" would wind up in prison if the bill became law.

 

 

So we hate illegals . . . but not when they are our maids/cut our lawn, etc? Then illegals are OK? Why not just do your lawn service through a BUSINESS that is required to do such verification, or Merry Maids, andother BUSINESS.

 

BTW, how can grandmaw who doesnt know how to use a computer hire an illegal anyway?

[Azazello1313]

it's the same logic as people arguing for amnesty. "you can't possibly round up and deport them all".

[Perchoutofwater]

 

So we hate illegals . . . but not when they are our maids/cut our lawn, etc? Then illegals are OK? Why not just do your lawn service through a BUSINESS that is required to do such verification, or Merry Maids, andother BUSINESS.

 

BTW, how can grandmaw who doesnt know how to use a computer hire an illegal anyway?

 

With all due respect, are you really that freak'n stupid? Did you even read what I wrote? The reason is because there general public, unlike businesses are not sophisticated enough or know enough to know how to verify it. With regard to Granny, it's pretty damned easy. It just goes to show that you don't have near the problem with illegals that we do down here. I can tell you where you can hire probably 300 illegals within a 30 mile radius of where I'm sitting. They loiter waiting for someone to hire them. Down here we call it "The Wagon Yard", which basically means a place where illegal men loiter waiting to be hired.

 

If you really don't understand this you are either far less intelligent or far more partisan than I've given you credit for.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Perchoutofwater

[Perchoutofwater]

it's the same logic as people arguing for amnesty. "you can't possibly round up and deport them all".

 

It's not so much that, as it is most individuals lack the means to verify someones legal status. Why doesn't the EPA go after individuals when they accidently spill gas filling up the lawnmower? The reason, becuase the amount of gas spilled is considerably smaller, and the means available to the average person to clean it up is significantly less. Anyone that isn't a partisan hack or an idiot should realize this.

[tazinib1]

it's the same logic as people arguing for amnesty. "you can't possibly round up and deport them all".

 

 

Sure you can. You declare Marshall Law, bang on every freaken door across the entire country, gas up 1,000's of buses (this creates jobs btw) and you boot there ass across the border. Then you build defense shield like the one on the USS Enterprise on the border so they get juiced up when they try to bury under it or climb it. There....done.

[TimC]

Grandma could do what I do...just scream out Jennifer Lopez's name really loud and they all come running. Then you pick one out to work until he/she dies from the combination of hard labor and no water and move on to the next you have locked in the barn.

[piratesownninjas]

It just goes to show that you don't have near the problem with illegals that we do down here. I can tell you where you can hire probably 300 illegals within a 30 mile radius of where I'm sitting.

300 in a 30 mile radius? You must live in the middle of nowhere. And I really do not think someone living in Chicago can really appreciate the situation that is going on in Texas.

[SEC=UGA]

I'm of the round 'em up and deport them or Document them and remove the birthright citizenship clause for all children who do not have at least one US citizen as a parent.

 

But, honestly, we need them as labor. Americans are by and large a relatively lazy group of people. We will not work the jobs we once worked, we will not work the hours that we once worked. Being in the construction industry I have hired laborers of all stripes, hired them at the same pay scale, offered them all the same benefits; black and white american workers will not put in the hours or do the quality of work the hispanic/latino/asian workers will do. I will also go as far to say that many third generation hispanic/mexican/asian people will not put in the same amount of work as will the migrants. They have become Americanized and lazy.

 

I would propose a 6 to 12 month window where all people in the US illegally show up to a precinct in each state (have them in multiple locations) and register with the state as a migrant worker. Document them, document their employment, if they are caught with out documentation after this grace period, ship em home, no questions asked. They will have to reup their work Visa annually and document that they are still working. When fired by an employer, they have to report monthly and update on their progress for finding new work, if they fail to find work in 6 months or don't show up, revoke their work visa and ship their asses home.

[tazinib1]

I'm of the round 'em up and deport them or Document them and remove the birthright citizenship clause for all children who do not have at least one US citizen as a parent.

 

But, honestly, we need them as labor. Americans are by and large a relatively lazy group of people. We will not work the jobs we once worked, we will not work the hours that we once worked. Being in the construction industry I have hired laborers of all stripes, hired them at the same pay scale, offered them all the same benefits; black and white american workers will not put in the hours or do the quality of work the hispanic/latino/asian workers will do. I will also go as far to say that many third generation hispanic/mexican/asian people will not put in the same amount of work as will the migrants. They have become Americanized and lazy.

 

I would propose a 6 to 12 month window where all people in the US illegally show up to a precinct in each state (have them in multiple locations) and register with the state as a migrant worker. Document them, document their employment, if they are caught with out documentation after this grace period, ship em home, no questions asked. They will have to reup their work Visa annually and document that they are still working. When fired by an employer, they have to report monthly and update on their progress for finding new work, if they fail to find work in 6 months or don't show up, revoke their work visa and ship their asses home.

 

I'm half on board with you here. Actually I'm all on board with you here. All joking aside, I just worry what it will do to the economy of states like Texas that run on illegal labor. Of course, this could solve a HUGH unemployment problem as well. And you're kidding yourselves if you don't think a hard working American wouldn't love the opportunity to get off the governments tit by taking a labor job.

[Perchoutofwater]

300 in a 30 mile radius? You must live in the middle of nowhere. And I really do not think someone living in Chicago can really appreciate the situation that is going on in Texas.

 

I was being literal about me specifically knowing where to find that many that are sitting around waiting for work. I'm not talking about going and knocking on doors. I'm also sure that there are a number of places like the ones I know about that I don't know about.

[bpwallace49]

With all due respect, are you really that freak'n stupid? Did you even read what I wrote? The reason is because there general public, unlike businesses are not sophisticated enough or know enough to know how to verify it. With regard to Granny, it's pretty damned easy. It just goes to show that you don't have near the problem with illegals that we do down here. I can tell you where you can hire probably 300 illegals within a 30 mile radius of where I'm sitting. They loiter waiting for someone to hire them. Down here we call it "The Wagon Yard", which basically means a place where illegal men loiter waiting to be hired.

 

If you really don't understand this you are either far less intelligent or far more partisan than I've given you credit for.

 

Perch you proved my point for me.

 

As long as there is an appetite for cheap labor and the US population that hires them cares more about saving a buck by hiring Hay-Zeus then using a BUSINESS for a lawn service (like one that uses everify for instance and not grandma picking up an illegal on a street corner), then the problem will NEVER be solved! It isnt about verification, and you are kidding yourself if you think that is the issue. People can use BUSINESSES to fill that gap for any kind of domestic service provided that has now been granted exceptions. Your problem ISNT the illegals, but your neighbors that continue to hire them.

 

The problem is the US people and their desire for cheap prices on everything. We wail and beat our chests about the illegals and how much they cost, yet are UNWILLING by our actions to NOT hire illegals! This loophole is living proof of that. If everyone shared your ideals on illegals (and I really really wish they did) then no one would hire them to be domestic help, farm labor, whatever.

 

Perch you and I have gone back and forth on this issues, and agree more than we disagree on illegal immigration. But the flat out facts are that until the US people STOP hiring illegals in any capacity at all, it will always be a problem.

Edited March 4, 2011 by bpwallace49

[BeeR]

But, honestly, we need them as labor.

Yeah because there's no unemployment issue here.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why people on welfare don't instead get a choice between taking a job the gubmint finds and offers or taking a freaking hike.

 

Re the bill, it is a joke. Either do this or don't. If you're going to make an exception out of convenience, IMO you have no right to whine.

[WaterMan]

Seems like the Texas House needs to be cleaned out.

[Duchess Jack]

Its a start. I can't stand when something good is done in this country and folk come back with "it isn't enough". If nothing is bad than something (when the alternative is nothing) should be a good thing.

 

What about that slippery slope folk are always going on about. Let's take this step and when (if... hopefully) it works, we can take that next step. Seems reasonable and its long long long long past time that we did this. I for one am a fan of making English the national language, anything that makes it harder for people coming into this country illigally.

 

Need to go to the doctor and you are an illigal. Sure, we'll take care of you as a good and loving people and than send you promptly back home.

[Duchess Jack]

But, honestly, we need them as labor. Americans are by and large a relatively lazy group of people. We will not work the jobs we once worked, we will not work the hours that we once worked.

 

Supply and demand. If cheap labor isn't than businesses will need to shell out more money for these jobs (as it is laughable that corporate executives make 1000x more than a ditch digger). If ditch diggers make more than $10 an hour for destroying their bodies, than more people might want to dig ditches. I think its just as much about greed up top as it is laziness on the bottom.

 

ETA: if that doesn't work - than there are a lot of people on social services that can put to work via a big old temp agency.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Duchess Jack

[SEC=UGA]

Yeah because there's no unemployment issue here.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why people on welfare don't instead get a choice between taking a job the gubmint finds and offers or taking a freaking hike.

 

Re the bill, it is a joke. Either do this or don't. If you're going to make an exception out of convenience, IMO you have no right to whine.

 

Do you want to know how many unemployed people have come by my office looking for work in the past two years? Five, 4 Mexicans and a white guy that was a project manager for a GC and wanted to see if we had any openings for a project manager. Told him that I could put him on a crew til things picked back up, "thanks, but, no thanks."

 

One thing is clear to me having grown up in a construction family and being around the construction industry for the better pat of 35 years. An evolution has taken place in who labors in construction. In the 80's masons and concrete guys were typically black. Electricians, carpenters, iron workers, steel erectors were predominantly white. Today, unless the construction is a sophisticated high rise, most f your workers are going to be hispanic/Mexican/latino, whatever. Electricians are still mostly white guys, but the guys who do the grunt work, frame carpenters, painters, trim carpenters, steel erectors, tend to be predominantly Mexican.

 

To end another myth, in many cases these guys aren't paid poorly. After looking at our books from last year, our in house crews average +/- $17 an hour for labor (excluding health insurance and AFLAC coverage), we start new laborers at $12 an hour. Considering these guys, in a normal economy, average 65 hour per week and about 48 work weeks per year, the starting laborer is making $36/37K per year. Guess what, you still can't find an abundance of black or white guys willing to do the work for that (outside of some Kiwis and South Africans.) If they do come to work for you, they last about two pay periods and are gone, they wont do the work.

 

Sure, you could raise the wages to a point where a starting laborer makes $20 an hour, works 40 hour weeks and has an hour for lunch, but hten NOTHING would get built in the private sector.

 

Let's have an example:

Someone is building a self storage facility, a nice 4 story climate controlled one, 25,000 sf Per floor, total of 100K SF. Labor rates for a 5 man crew (now you have to remember we pay work comp, and federal taxes on these guys, among other things that we have to recover. Also this doesn'ti include the daily/Weekly charge for equipment and hotels.) run roughly $120 per hour. At 65 hours per week, that translates to a weekly labor cost of roughly $9,300. In a week we can complete 6,000 SF. This project should take us 17 weeks to complete. On top of that we have 3 hotel rooms at 1,575 per week, a large forklift at 1,500 per month, and man lifts at 1,200 per month. For the project these costs add up to be roughly $196,350 for the labor, hotel and equipment.

 

If I pay an average of $20 dollars per hour, I'm going to have to up my costs, to make it easy, 3 dollars per person per hour. So we go up to $135 per hour. With this, they are only working 40 hours per week. At the same rate they are now completing 3,720 feet per week. The 100K SF project now takes 27 weeks. my costs go up by $15,500 and I am missing the opportunity to be able to deploy a crew to a new project for 9 weeks. So while the labor cost difference may be relatively small, to some of you guys, the opportunity cost for me is huge as I will not be able to field another project because my crew is tied up at the same project. My revenues will decrease exponentially unless I raise my mark-up to cover the lost real $ and the opportunity cost of having to miss another potential project.

 

The money I would have to recover would be roughly: 9 weeks = 54K SF. Call it $8 SF (since we don't know what type of building it is) X 54 = $432,000 project. At a normal markup that is 95K in revenue out of my pocket from missing that project.

 

At the end of the day all of this gets passed along to the customer. And these things can greatly impact the success or failure of the project, hell, these things can determine if the project will even go or not. Oh, and I'm not even sure that white/black americans would be willing to do this work at the higher wage and lower hour rates above.

Edited March 4, 2011 by SEC=UGA

[Clubfoothead]

 

The right is like the beastie boys except instead of fighting for your right to party, they are fighting for your right to not provide health insurance for your kids, your right to waste electricity and your right to hate all illegal Mexicans with the exception of the ones that take care of your kids and mow your lawn. No wonder they hate teachers so much, you'd have to be a freaking moran to buy their $hit.

[Duchess Jack]

To end another myth, in many cases these guys aren't paid poorly. After looking at our books from last year, our in house crews average +/- $17 an hour for labor (excluding health insurance and AFLAC coverage), we start new laborers at $12 an hour. Considering these guys, in a normal economy, average 65 hour per week and about 48 work weeks per year, the starting laborer is making $36/37K per year. Guess what, you still can't find an abundance of black or white guys willing to do the work for that (outside of some Kiwis and South Africans.) If they do come to work for you, they last about two pay periods and are gone, they wont do the work.

 

Doing the type of work these guys do for 65 hours per week (outdoors w/ the risk of injury) seems crazy. I am sure it is standard, but to paint it as $36/36k a year (as much as they might make that) is crazy. Anybody making $10 an hour at a kinkos putting in 65 hours a week (assuming they are being paid for overtime) is going to net $37k a year.

 

I work in big spam and can tell you that the cats making 7 digets don't do a quarter of the work a typical laborer does. Heck, their perks likely amount to 20x said laborer's salary alone.

 

It is what it is. You are in the industry and have grown to pay people what you pay, but to suggest it is a fair wage is crazy. I guess if you are poor and struggling, you'll grow to take anything, but I feel that it has less to do with American's being lazy (not saying that they are not inherantly lazy) and more to do with folk talking advantage of cheap undocumented labor.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Duchess Jack

[SEC=UGA]

Doing the type of work these guys do for 65 hours per week (outdoors w/ the risk of injury) seems crazy. I am sure it is standard, but to paint it as $36/36k a year (as much as they might make that) is crazy. Anybody making $10 an hour at a kinkos putting in 65 hours a week (assuming they are being paid for overtime) is going to net $37k a year.

 

I work in big spam and can tell you that the cats making 7 didgets don't do a quarter of the work a typical laborer does. Heck, their perks likely amount to 20x said laborer's salary alone.

 

It is what it is. You are in the industry and have grown to pay people what you pay, but to suggest it is a fair wage is crazy. I guess if you are poor and struggling, you'll grow to take anything, but I feel that it has less to do with American's being lazy (not saying that they are not inherantly lazy) and more to do with folk talking advantage of cheap undocumented labor.

 

That $12 an hour is starting. In house crews average about $17 for labor, 63K per year.

Edited March 4, 2011 by SEC=UGA

[Duchess Jack]

That $12 an hour is starting. In house crews average about $17 for labor, 63K per year.

 

I guess this is my problem. When folk address what they make a year - in my mind, they are talking about a standard work week. I think it is fair to say they make $17 an hour, but it gets a little squirrley when that is painted as 63K a year (when compaired to "fair wages") as most people like some time with their families. With that said, $17/hr comes to about $35k a year in most industries and that to me sounds like a fair income.

 

Are you required to pay overtime?

Edited March 4, 2011 by Duchess Jack

[SEC=UGA]

I guess this is my problem. When address what they make a year - in my mind, they are talking about a standard work week. I think it is fair to say they make $17 an hour, but gets a little squirrley when that is painted as 63K a year as most people like some time with their families. With that said, $17/hr comes to about $35k a year in most industries and that to me sounds like a fair income.

 

Are you required to pay overtime?

 

Time and a half over 40.

 

Unfortunately the people with the skill set that it requires to work in this industry don't have the luxury and perks that many college educated individuals have. Though, i will say, most of the guys making the big money, are working more than a 40 hour work week.