Avernus Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Holy Christ I cant believe both of you took that post seriously. I take none of your posts seriously but assume you mean something to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 This is all balderdash. The economical/financial collapse that people preach will be coming is false and is being used to cover up the real problem the entire globe is facing right now. 99942 Apophis 2029 visit Svalbard Global Seed Vault Dallas Cowboys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 This is all balderdash. The economical/financial collapse that people preach will be coming is false and is being used to cover up the real problem the entire globe is facing right now. 99942 Apophis 2029 visit Svalbard Global Seed Vault Dallas Cowboys I thought I was confused before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 This is all balderdash. The economical/financial collapse that people preach will be coming is false and is being used to cover up the real problem the entire globe is facing right now. 99942 Apophis 2029 visit Svalbard Global Seed Vault Dallas Cowboys I think you just suicide bombed the thread.... that was very impressive aha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 check out this video as it is a decent breakdown of what Ben Bernanke said yesterday...ignore the small bit of metals talk, the other stuff is at least worth it because he shoots from the hip here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBGI3zmRz0c&feature=feedu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 we're so accustomed to being slaves spending all our time working for food and electricity - things that nobody really owns but people want to own them because they are "profitable" I don't understand your statement of nobody really owning the food and electricity. Do you really think the farmers are going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for equipment, diesel fuel, fertilizer, irrigation, etc. to grow the food and give it away? Do you really think corporations are going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build power plants to provide free electricity? Please provide me some more insight into this issue because I quite frankly don't get your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I don't understand your statement of nobody really owning the food and electricity. Do you really think the farmers are going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for equipment, diesel fuel, fertilizer, irrigation, etc. to grow the food and give it away? Do you really think corporations are going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build power plants to provide free electricity? Please provide me some more insight into this issue because I quite frankly don't get your point. 1st off we don't own what this planet already came with....electricity doesn't come from a person like a child or breast milk...we don't own seeds... look up what a resource based economy is... I watched a documentary recently on Netflix called "Future by Design"...I would say to watch that for starters and then do some reading... and like I said, most people have trouble wrapping their heads around it as I am still reading more on it when I can....and based on your response, you should probably re-read what I said in the previous post because your questions don't connect with what I've said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 here's where you go wrong... nothing in history suggests that good and smart people will take over and then hand the control over to other good and smart people. The average human has always been fooked. Whether it's this system, Victorian England, Renaissance France, or all the way back to King Tut. People have always been fooked and will always continue to be fooked. So, the collapse will only hurt the average person while the rich and powerful stay that way. Pray for no change cuz people don't learn and change only happens on the backs of the nobodies. look at Egypt, they had their "revolution" and already are complaining about the new regime... the problem is that you can't have a small group of people running your country.....you should have the country run itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I don't disagree with anything that you or Brent say about how flawed the system. I just think that people have always been oppressed, will continue to be oppressed, and nothing can be done about that. The moment a good system is implemented, you'll have some people trying to exploit it. For example, to have the country run itself, you could implement mass voting on the internet on any one subject and then the system would execute that outcome. But there will be who'll break-in and sell off the voting rights to the highest bidder. I say vote on the policies and not politicians....less flaw this way and when you eliminate government and allow people to decide where budget cuts are then we'll have better education and people making better decisions because they better understand what they are voting on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Let me ask this, what kind of inflation are you afraid of? There are MANY nations in the world that are very functional, have a decent sized middle class and have operated under historical inflation rates over the past 2 decades (at least) with 40% annual inflation. Is their standard of living the same as ours... no. Are the citizens of these countries walking around without clothes and eating out of waste cans... not in many cases. Is their average lifestyle equivalent to the average American's lifestyle... absolutely not. But, Americans have been living WAAAAAY beyond their means. Having to cut back on items might not be the worst thing in the world in order for us to get the ship righted. I've been to a few of these nations where inflation rates are in the double digits (teens to 40+%) and have interacted with what would be considered middle class (and lower middle for that matter) and the lifestyle is not one of desperation, it is more of one simplicity. It may suck to not be able to afford a 60" plasma TV, two new cars, and a 3,000 SF home, but I really think we would be okay if some of our purchasing power were curtailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Let me ask this, what kind of inflation are you afraid of? There are MANY nations in the world that are very functional, have a decent sized middle class and have operated under historical inflation rates over the past 2 decades (at least) with 40% annual inflation. Is their standard of living the same as ours... no. Are the citizens of these countries walking around without clothes and eating out of waste cans... not in many cases. Is their average lifestyle equivalent to the average American's lifestyle... absolutely not. But, Americans have been living WAAAAAY beyond their means. Having to cut back on items might not be the worst thing in the world in order for us to get the ship righted. I've been to a few of these nations where inflation rates are in the double digits (teens to 40+%) and have interacted with what would be considered middle class (and lower middle for that matter) and the lifestyle is not one of desperation, it is more of one simplicity. It may suck to not be able to afford a 60" plasma TV, two new cars, and a 3,000 SF home, but I really think we would be okay if some of our purchasing power were curtailed. EXACTLY...40% inflation from where we are it would be ridiculous, it depends where you're at and I say inflation is good for a growing economy otherwise we'd have serious deflation based on the population...but inflation isn't based on population growth...it has far exceeded that... we won't have some bartering system where people have to protect their families with guns even if people bait me into that conversation jestfully, I don't subscribe to that sort of lifestyle, but they are narrowminded and only think of silver and gold as a bartering tool - all I am doing is stuffing my money in a mattress without being harmed by inflation...I have no interest in investing my money as when the time comes, I will cash in my gold and silver for real estate which has been my plan all along.... our way of living will be changed as people may have to ditch their cell phones or their internet, if not both and not have a car for each person in the household who can drive and not go on a nice vacation every summer....or they may not be able to afford HD cable with a million channels....etc. etc. I don't think we'll be panning for gold just to eat like what has happened in Zimbabwe as I mentioned in another thread where an idiot took what I said out of context, but morans are popping out the woodworks lately from far and wide...it will just be rough based on what the average lifestyle is now and what people don't want to give up (cell phones, HD cable and internet etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 1st off we don't own what this planet already came with....electricity doesn't come from a person like a child or breast milk...we don't own seeds... look up what a resource based economy is... I watched a documentary recently on Netflix called "Future by Design"...I would say to watch that for starters and then do some reading... and like I said, most people have trouble wrapping their heads around it as I am still reading more on it when I can....and based on your response, you should probably re-read what I said in the previous post because your questions don't connect with what I've said... I've read plenty about a resource based economy and could write a post about the flaws I see with the idealogy that woudl make Detlef look succinct. My biggest problem with the resource based economy theory is that it fails to take into account the fact that the majority of our population is apathetic. If they don't have to work for something, they won't. Giving everyone free food, housing, and clothing is not going to make the masses suddenly want to join some giant think tank to improve the world. It is just going to give them more time to play their Xboxes and Playstations. I'm no better, though. I bust my ass running a branch office of a successful engineering firm that specializes in helping small communities provide safe drinking water and wastewater treatment for the public, things most people take for granted. It allows me to lead a comfortable lifestyle, and as an engineer, makes me feel a lot more satisfied than designing strip malls. At the same time, if I'm not going to realize a greater benefit than others by working harder than they do, I won't. I'd a lot rather be hunting, fishing, or spending more time with my family. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of farmers and ranchers I know (which is a significant number) aren't any different and wouldn't work sunup to sundown seven days a week in all weather conditions if they didn't have to. Unfortunately, there goes all your free food . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I watched a documentary I'm sure you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I've read plenty about a resource based economy and could write a post about the flaws I see with the idealogy that woudl make Detlef look succinct. My biggest problem with the resource based economy theory is that it fails to take into account the fact that the majority of our population is apathetic. If they don't have to work for something, they won't. Giving everyone free food, housing, and clothing is not going to make the masses suddenly want to join some giant think tank to improve the world. It is just going to give them more time to play their Xboxes and Playstations. I'm no better, though. I bust my ass running a branch office of a successful engineering firm that specializes in helping small communities provide safe drinking water and wastewater treatment for the public, things most people take for granted. It allows me to lead a comfortable lifestyle, and as an engineer, makes me feel a lot more satisfied than designing strip malls. At the same time, if I'm not going to realize a greater benefit than others by working harder than they do, I won't. I'd a lot rather be hunting, fishing, or spending more time with my family. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of farmers and ranchers I know (which is a significant number) aren't any different and wouldn't work sunup to sundown seven days a week in all weather conditions if they didn't have to. Unfortunately, there goes all your free food . . . actually you're wrong about apathetic....because they are apathetic in our current system which is stacked against the average person who knows they will likely have to work like a slave their entire lives just to make ends meet and support a family of 2 kids or so....in this scenario, people are constantly looking for the easy way out when they can't figure out how to work the system....you're still thinking along the terms of a monetary system where people have to work for something instead of wanting to... I forget how the food would be provided, but it was answered...I just digested the entire documentary that I watched the other night on top of what I was reading which is funny because I had no idea the documentary was based on that, it was called "Future by Design" and the cover of the movie caught my attention....it just so happened to be about it and it was well explained... the problem is...it kind of reminded me of the movie The Island now that I think of it...or that's how things would turn out....I really want to watch it again so I can remember what was said about food because everything was logically covered....and remember that our environment is what molds us and an environment where you are born to have to work constantly to make ends meet, unless you are one of the lucky few then you will find the system intimidating and this affects your outlook on things.... people weren't meant to work their whole lives...money and work were created by man and once the system is in place, we can work on a better society... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It allows me to lead a comfortable lifestyle, and as an engineer, makes me feel a lot more satisfied than designing strip malls. I'd hold you in much higher esteem if you were designing strip clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I'd hold you in much higher esteem if you were designing strip clubs. Or for an engineering joke: God must be a civil engineer. Who else would put a sanitary sewer through the entertainment district? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Or for an engineering joke: God must be a civil engineer. Who else would put a sanitary sewer through the entertainment district? Joe Hitterman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Or for an engineering joke: God must be a civil engineer. Who else would put a sanitary sewer through the entertainment district? I had to reread that to get it. That doesn't happen too often. Good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 actually you're wrong about apathetic....because they are apathetic in our current system which is stacked against the average person who knows they will likely have to work like a slave their entire lives just to make ends meet and support a family of 2 kids or so....in this scenario, people are constantly looking for the easy way out when they can't figure out how to work the system....you're still thinking along the terms of a monetary system where people have to work for something instead of wanting to...I forget how the food would be provided, but it was answered...I just digested the entire documentary that I watched the other night on top of what I was reading which is funny because I had no idea the documentary was based on that, it was called "Future by Design" and the cover of the movie caught my attention....it just so happened to be about it and it was well explained... the problem is...it kind of reminded me of the movie The Island now that I think of it...or that's how things would turn out....I really want to watch it again so I can remember what was said about food because everything was logically covered....and remember that our environment is what molds us and an environment where you are born to have to work constantly to make ends meet, unless you are one of the lucky few then you will find the system intimidating and this affects your outlook on things.... people weren't meant to work their whole lives...money and work were created by man and once the system is in place, we can work on a better society... Came in to post this exact same thing. Apples to oranges. But this is why I believe it's going to take a catastrophic event to get humans to "reset" because too many people are deadened by the current system. We need a complete flush and then start from scratch, jmho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 actually you're wrong about apathetic....because they are apathetic in our current system which is stacked against the average person who knows they will likely have to work like a slave their entire lives just to make ends meet and support a family of 2 kids or so....in this scenario, people are constantly looking for the easy way out when they can't figure out how to work the system....you're still thinking along the terms of a monetary system where people have to work for something instead of wanting to... Perhaps "apathetic" was the wrong choice of words. I know a lot of decent, hard-working people around here. The thing is, they don't give a rip about the things that get you and Brentastic all worked up. They are worried about this week's little league game and where to take the family camping over the weekend. They don't sit around talking about some utopian society on some fantasy football forum and quite honestly (and unfortunately) are not interested in becoming more educated. Funny thing though, most of them take a lot of pride in their work, working hard, and doing a good job. people weren't meant to work their whole lives...money and work were created by man and once the system is in place, we can work on a better society... People may have invented money as a more convenient bartering system, but everything in our world is the result of work. Cavemen worked every day, all day just to survive. The majority of major medical, technological, artistic, etc. advancements are generally the direct result of hard work. Whether people are being paid for it or doing it for some grander purpose, it is still work, and it wasn't created by people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Came in to post this exact same thing. Apples to oranges. But this is why I believe it's going to take a catastrophic event to get humans to "reset" because too many people are deadened by the current system. We need a complete flush and then start from scratch, jmho. I guess I have an entirely different view of our society and the majority of the population. Around here, a catastrophic event wouldn't "reset" people. It would make them buckle down, work harder, and do everything in their power to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I've read plenty about a resource based economy and could write a post about the flaws I see with the idealogy that would make Detlef look succinct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 I guess I have an entirely different view of our society and the majority of the population. Around here, a catastrophic event wouldn't "reset" people. It would make them buckle down, work harder, and do everything in their power to fix it. I'm just happy you're adding to the discussion and not flaming away. This makes me happy and welcome to the discussion I'm not saying we wouldn't have to work, the difference to me is that we would be working for each other not for own personal gain. That's the direction I think we should be heading toward. Working to enhance all of mankind, not just a select few with a determined hierarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Perhaps "apathetic" was the wrong choice of words. I know a lot of decent, hard-working people around here. The thing is, they don't give a rip about the things that get you and Brentastic all worked up. They are worried about this week's little league game and where to take the family camping over the weekend. They don't sit around talking about some utopian society on some fantasy football forum and quite honestly (and unfortunately) are not interested in becoming more educated. Funny thing though, most of them take a lot of pride in their work, working hard, and doing a good job. People may have invented money as a more convenient bartering system, but everything in our world is the result of work. Cavemen worked every day, all day just to survive. The majority of major medical, technological, artistic, etc. advancements are generally the direct result of hard work. Whether people are being paid for it or doing it for some grander purpose, it is still work, and it wasn't created by people. actually ....I went back to read it and have no recollection of typing the word "apathetic"....is this a Huddle censor?...the word apathetic stuck out to me because it's not even what I was thinking....seriously, it's funny that you pointed that out...because it's not what I was trying to say... and people enjoy their job because it's making ends meet and they want to provide for their family, but you're talking about the middle class which is currently being wiped out.....I'm talking about the lower class considering I live in Philly and I would rather uplift the lower class than lower the middle which is currently happening in our broken system.... and you said caveman worked every day to survive and then we evolved into a bartering system and then into a system that has paper money as currency which could work - anything could work as money if people believe in it and it can't be manipulated to no end... my whole point is that we aren't here to just work like slaves just to make ends meet and while this doesn't affect me, I am concerned about the environment around me which isn't a very good one.....and while it may not be my immediate environment, it is still within reach.... plus we are reaching an era where machines will be able to do the work for us and people are worried about that which is backwards only because we think we need money to survive but the system has trained us like good lapdogs (most of us anyways) to hop-to for a buck to make ends meet... and here are two videos I pulled up that relate to how food would be provided - especially an indoor environment while these scenarios won't answer the entire food situation, it answers probably more than half of it....and the documentary I spoke of is actually on YouTube for anyone who wants to watch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxe7tlr-2I4 also, at 1:07:25 there is a great segment on "environment" when he feeds a couple of raccoons by hand and has them trained like you would a cat or dog...or even better than that because it goes over to a small container of water to wash off the food that was handed to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I'm just happy you're adding to the discussion and not flaming away. This makes me happy and welcome to the discussion I'm not saying we wouldn't have to work, the difference to me is that we would be working for each other not for own personal gain. That's the direction I think we should be heading toward. Working to enhance all of mankind, not just a select few with a determined hierarchy. exactly...the main point is our entire time wouldn't be consumed by work or the environment of work....more time would be spent with family or whatever your goal is....and not making work your goal.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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