Pay ta park

[Scooby's Hubby]

Never been to NYC, but if it is anything like downtown Chicago then it ain't cheap

[nuke'em ttg]

I believe Swammi can step up to the plate and seperate himself from his fellow scumbags.

 

New Swammi "See America without gettin Drywalled, we're car f'n friendly

Land of the Free Parking"

[i_am_the_swammi]

I believe Swammi can step up to the plate and seperate himself from his fellow scumbags.

 

New Swammi "See America without gettin Drywalled, we're car f'n friendly

Land of the Free Parking"

 

 

 

I'd recommend it, but only if we wanted to default on our urban hotels. Parking fees are a hugh part of paying the mortgage. if we drop them, room rates would then need to go up for everyone by about 60% of the parking fee (since 60% of our guests are drive-to). If the parking charge is $40, room rates would need to be $24 higher. Everyone OK with that? I imagine those with cars would say yes, and those that fly to a destination and don't rent a car would say no.

 

Really tho, either way, you are going to pay if you drive. If you want hotels to just include it ( re: hide it) in the rate along with other stuff you likely don't use/need (concierge salary, F&B staffing even though you likely went out on the town to eat, bellhops even though you carried your own bag, etc), then OK.

[darin3]

 

 

I'd recommend it, but only if we wanted to default on our urban hotels. Parking fees are a hugh part of paying the mortgage. if we drop them, room rates would then need to go up for everyone by about 60% of the parking fee (since 60% of our guests are drive-to). If the parking charge is $40, room rates would need to be $24 higher. Everyone OK with that? I imagine those with cars would say yes, and those that fly to a destination and don't rent a car would say no.

 

Really tho, either way, you are going to pay if you drive. If you want hotels to just include it ( re: hide it) in the rate along with other stuff you likely don't use/need (concierge salary, F&B staffing even though you likely went out on the town to eat, bellhops even though you carried your own bag, etc), then OK.

FYI, my point was that the more urban hotels charged (and I was fine with it), while the Holiday Inn / HI Express types did not. Obviously I'm quite aware of land values in urban cores.

 

My point of contention was that using a price-gouger like a stadium was perhaps not the best analogy.

[detlef]

 

 

I'd recommend it, but only if we wanted to default on our urban hotels. Parking fees are a hugh part of paying the mortgage. if we drop them, room rates would then need to go up for everyone by about 60% of the parking fee (since 60% of our guests are drive-to). If the parking charge is $40, room rates would need to be $24 higher. Everyone OK with that? I imagine those with cars would say yes, and those that fly to a destination and don't rent a car would say no.

 

Really tho, either way, you are going to pay if you drive. If you want hotels to just include it ( re: hide it) in the rate along with other stuff you likely don't use/need (concierge salary, F&B staffing even though you likely went out on the town to eat, bellhops even though you carried your own bag, etc), then OK.

That's always baffled me. Honestly, mostly about those here at the Huddle. I brought up the topic at one point about the best policy of handling some of the more private dining areas at my restaurant. The opportunity cost for me about booking a large party is that it basically locks down a section of my dining area that I could otherwise just seat normally if the large party was not there.

 

My first inclination was to impose a minimum to take the area that was basically equal to what I'd otherwise make off the section if I just sat it normally.

 

That was seen around here as tacky and mercenary and, nearly to a man, they said I should just charge a room fee and be done with it. That they'd rather not have it explained to them what the charges were about and just get handed a bill. This never made sense to me because, my way was actually a better deal for the customer. It was simple. If you want to book the space, essentially all evening because that's what happens with very large parties, you just needed to spend a certain amount on food and drink or we'd add a surcharge. However, if you went big enough, then you wouldn't be assessed that charge. Seemed to be better than paying several hundred dollars in addition to what you spent on food and drink, regardless of how much you spent.

 

I decided to ignore the advice and go with my plan. And I'm really, really glad I did. Each and every person who's approached us about booking a party has understood 100% why the policy is there and had no issue with it. Some chose not to book because they were not looking to spend that much, but didn't seem at all put-off by it. They either moved their reservation to a weekday (when the minimum is either waived or lower) or just politely said they'd have to find another venue. Which, of course, is fine because the whole policy is in place so that I don't actually lose money by taking a large party that doesn't spend.

 

I mean, I get it if you're super rich and don't want to be bothered with the details. "Just tell me how much it costs and be done with it." But I'm guessing there are few here who fit that category. No, these are guys who are pissed about having to pay to park their car, and seemingly would rather pay for someone else to park their car.

 

Or would rather just be charged, say $500 to take a private room before they buy a single drink than suffer the indignity of being told by the proprietor that they simply needed to spend as much as he would otherwise make if he didn't close off part of his restaurant for the night.

[Azazello1313]

In sophisticated Top-25 urban areas? Yep, they do. You typically pay to park in a city-owned lot, or pay to park at a meter. In sprawling suburbia? Not so much.

 

Similarly, most hotels in urban areas, and stadiums in urban areas, also charge to park. As was alluded to earlier, they need to charge those bringing cars an extra few bucks to cover the enormous debt service associated with cost of building a parking structure on prime land that could be used for a variety of other purposes.

 

The comparison of not having to pay to park at a "Holiday Inn Express in Maryland" is a little off, since I doubt that hotel was in downtown Baltimore, the only real urban area in Maryland. When land is only a couple hundred thousand dollars an acre, you can afford to offer free surface parking as a way to entice people to your property (since room sales are the main contributor to your NOI). In an urban area, where the cost to build a parking structure (or rent space in someone else's lot) can cost million of dollars, charging to park is the norm, and most travelers know it and accept it. I can't remember ever going to Philly, Boston, New York or DC and not thinking I'd have free parking at any type of attraction.

 

yeah but as someone else mentioned, a downtown target will validate your parking if you go in and buy a pair of boxer shorts and a slim jim. seems like most hotels that are charging you hundreds of dollars per night could probably do the same if they were so inclined. but they see it as a captive market they can milk at a high profit margin. they're certainly entitled to business that way, but I will say that I notice and appreciate businesses who treat their patrons a little more appreciably by either covering parking or charging slightly below what spaces generally go for in the area.

[Big Country]

I thnk a lot of this is on a case by case basis.

 

I've stayed in San Diego quite a bit over the years, sometimes towards the coast closer to SeaWorld, a few times downtown near the GasLamp district and sometimes out on Hotel Circle.

 

The costal hotel had a small parking fee, I believe $15 a day. Downtown hotel, as it was a shared public lot, has a more expensive rate of $40/day I believe (this was for valet, I believe it is $30 for self park, but at this particular hotel/lot, I don't like to do that), which is inline with the normal daily rate, and the hotel in hotel circle waived the parking fee for hotel patrons, otherwise the lot was something like $5 or $8 per hour.

 

In Seattle, at the Westin, I believe the parking fee was waived as I am a Starwood Preferred guest, but otherwise it is about $40/day.

 

I now go with the expectation of having to pay to park, but I will at least ask the front desk clerk if they can waive the fee. Doesn't work often, but have had success just being polite and asking.

 

 

ETA: The building that our pediatrician is in is adding a parking fee. I know for a fact that our pediatrician, who has been at this location for a very long time, is beyond pissed with the owners of the property for doing this. This is a small medical building, maybe a dozen or so practices, a lab and a small pharmacy, in a small town.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Big Country

[i_am_the_swammi]

yeah but as someone else mentioned, a downtown target will validate your parking if you go in and buy a pair of boxer shorts and a slim jim. seems like most hotels that are charging you hundreds of dollars per night could probably do the same if they were so inclined. but they see it as a captive market they can milk at a high profit margin. they're certainly entitled to business that way, but I will say that I notice and appreciate businesses who treat their patrons a little more appreciably by either covering parking or charging slightly below what spaces generally go for in the area.

 

Parking fees are a hugh part of paying the mortgage. if we drop them, room rates would then need to go up for everyone by about 60% of the parking fee (since 60% of our guests are drive-to). If the parking charge is $40, room rates would need to be $24 higher. Everyone OK with that? I imagine those with cars would say yes, and those that fly to a destination and don't rent a car would say no.

 

Really tho, either way, you are going to pay if you drive. If you want hotels to just include it ( re: hide it) in the rate along with other stuff you likely don't use/need (concierge salary, F&B staffing even though you likely went out on the town to eat, bellhops even though you carried your own bag, etc), then OK.

 

 

the big difference between retail and hospitality that you and most people don't get is that, in retail, if they don't sell something one day, they can try to sell it the next day. They don't have to try to sell everything in the store on a given day. That isn't their business model. They have the ability to sell so many different things, and deal with thousands of customers a day.

 

Conversely, hotels have a finite number of rooms. If a hotel doesn't sell a room on a given night, they can never get that back. That opportunity to sell the room is gone. Its completely about maximizing your potential income on a given night. Its why websites like priceline are in business, and why hotels are willing to sell rooms at ridiculously low rates: to get something instead of nothing for the room itself, and to get you into the hotel where you'll pay for meals, in-room entertainment, and parking.

 

oh, and at the bolded part above...the profit margin is decent if the hotel is full every night (which never happens). When the hotel is 40-50% occupied, and we have a hugh mortgage to pay, and have to keep 1-2 valets on hand for those guests, and keep the garage lit and under surveillance as required by our franchise agreement...any idea what the profit margin is? Try a negative number.

 

We'd love to not have to offer parking at our urban hotels at all....we'd save a ton of money. But that would make the guests angry if they couldn't find a spot in a garage closeby...or if they could get a spot, they were being truly gouged.

[Azazello1313]

Conversely, hotels have a finite number of rooms. If a hotel doesn't sell a room on a given night, they can never get that back. That opportunity to sell the room is gone. Its completely about maximizing your potential income on a given night. Its why websites like priceline are in business, and why hotels are willing to sell rooms at ridiculously low rates: to get something instead of nothing for the room itself, and to get you into the hotel where you'll pay for meals, in-room entertainment, and parking.

 

oh, and at the bolded part above...the profit margin is decent if the hotel is full every night (which never happens). When the hotel is 40-50% occupied, and we have a hugh mortgage to pay, and have to keep 1-2 valets on hand for those guests, and keep the garage lit and under surveillance as required by our franchise agreement...any idea what the profit margin is? Try a negative number.

 

I assume it's a high profit margin if the same lot or one right next to it is in business charing, say, $5 an hour and a $15 daily max, and the hotel charges its guests $25 a night to park, $40 to valet. that is the kind of situation I am talking about, where it seems like they are just gouging a captive market -- and I have seen it more than once, as have others in this thread. it's kinda like charging hotel guests for wifi.

 

and it's kinda funny how in one breath you are saying the point of priceline is to get people in the hotel so they spend on food, "in-room entertainment" (pr0n), and parking...then in the next breath you say parking isn't profitable for the hotel.

[i_am_the_swammi]

and it's kinda funny how in one breath you are saying the point of priceline is to get people in the hotel so they spend on food, "in-room entertainment" (pr0n), and parking...then in the next breath you say parking isn't profitable for the hotel.

 

uh, its only profitable if people are staying at the hotel...empty rooms mean empty parking spaces. On a night the hotel is full...yes, its profitable. On a night when the hotel is 40-50% occupied, its not. Thats why you'll see hotels discount substantially to put people in rooms.

 

Taken together, when a hotel averages on a whole at 65-70% occupancy....parking is break-even or a tad better in regard to the property's ROI.

[Azazello1313]

uh, its only profitable if people are staying at the hotel...empty rooms mean empty parking spaces.

 

why wouldn't you sell some of them to the general public?

[i_am_the_swammi]

why wouldn't you sell some of them to the general public?

 

Depending on the hotel, the market, how close we are to selling out, and the availability of spaces in the surround area, we do. We have to in order to stay profitable. if we charge $25 a night for parking, and the lot down the street charges $15-20 if they are empty, or $40-50 when they are full, we aren't much of a bargain when there isn't much happening in the market. And no, since our prices are in print on our website and not static, we can't charge more (or less) on a given day.

 

In other scenarios/locations, there are liability issues. The last thing we want it to sell a parking space to someone not staying at the hotel, then have that person break into a guest's car, or assault a guest in the garage. We'd rather the spaces not be available to the general public. Plus, we never know if we are going to get walk-ins later that night. The absolute last thing we'd want to happen is to sell a room, and have the guest come back to the front desk pissed because he couldn't park his car in a lot where he is supposed to be guaranteed to get a spot....local code often requires at least 1 spot per room, plus .5 spots per employee.

[The Irish Doggy]

Airline charge for bags, hotel charge for parking, car rental insurance as examples... the Pricelineization of travel services has guaranteed that we pay more in extra fees because most people are looking for a "rate" on one part of the total product. These businesses have to upsell other services to make a buck. Consumer behavior drives this phenomenon IMO.

[detlef]

Airline charge for bags, hotel charge for parking, car rental insurance as examples... the Pricelineization of travel services has guaranteed that we pay more in extra fees because most people are looking for a "rate" on one part of the total product. These businesses have to upsell other services to make a buck. Consumer behavior drives this phenomenon IMO.

And there's the rub.

 

People want it both ways. Apparently they want to be sheltered from being nickled and dimed for everything they need, so they want to pay one price. However, the second they realize they're being charged for something they didn't use, they want a discount.

 

It's got to be one or the other. And, again, I get this on a super-luxury level where people don't care and don't want to be bothered. That guy may not want to have to check a bunch of boxes to approve of charges for things he may or may not need. He just wants to hand over the plastic and do what he wants, when he wants to do so. But that doesn't apply to almost any of us.

 

I don't know about you, but when we travel, $15 difference a night for a hotel is something we at least consider assuming that they both seem nice and are where they need to be. So, if we're flying in and won't have a car, and one place has a cheaper nightly but charges extra for parking and the other is a bit more but has free parking, I'm going with the cheaper base price every time.

[Ursa Majoris]

charging slightly below what spaces generally go for in the area.

I think this is the way they should go. It should be the same or cheaper to park in the hotel than the surrounding ramps. It might make good advertising too. Doesn't have to be a whole lot, say $2 -$4 / day.

[Azazello1313]

Airline charge for bags, hotel charge for parking, car rental insurance as examples... the Pricelineization of travel services has guaranteed that we pay more in extra fees because most people are looking for a "rate" on one part of the total product. These businesses have to upsell other services to make a buck. Consumer behavior drives this phenomenon IMO.

 

yes, but at the same time, I as a consumer appreciate businesses who, in that atmosphere, take it upon themselves to present a business model where they are NOT nickel-and-diming their customers...presenting modest additional charges where necessary at fair prices, but making most of their money off of their core product. southwest airlines is an example, with no bag charges and no extortionist "change fees". again, hotels that charge at or below market price for the surrounding area for parking are another.

 

on the other hand, you have airlines that charge $75 if you change flights, or hotels that charge you for wifi, or charge you $40 for the same parking spot they sell to the general public at $20.

[detlef]

I think this is the way they should go. It should be the same or cheaper to park in the hotel than the surrounding ramps. It might make good advertising too. Doesn't have to be a whole lot, say $2 -$4 / day.

I have to imagine that public lots can afford to charge less on the day rate than hotels because public lots make so much more on the people who are in and out for hours at a time. The hotel, on the other hand, is either getting you all day, or not at all.

[nuke'em ttg]

i'm gonna start chargin the wife and kids

$teve "The Brain" Heenan

[nuke'em ttg]

can they really charge a single black handicapped lesbian with curb finders

[The Irish Doggy]

yes, but at the same time, I as a consumer appreciate businesses who, in that atmosphere, take it upon themselves to present a business model where they are NOT nickel-and-diming their customers..

 

Yeah, me too. Simple is good.