Shouldn't the parents step in?

[detlef]

OK, so my wife is certainly a favorite among the neighborhood girls. No surprise, really, because she's always doing stuff and, between the chickens and dogs, there's plenty of interesting things going on around the house.

 

At any rate, at various times over the last few years, different young neighborhood girls have really taken to her and have spent a lot of time hanging out at our house. Honestly, she enjoys it to an extent. We don't have kids, which is certainly by design, so this gives Diana just the taste she may be missing of having a daughter around. But, again, we don't have kids for a reason. We don't want them.

 

At some point, they start coming over all the time. When it was the girl across the street, she would literally watch at her window for Diana's car and be over so fast, she'd barely had the chance to change out of her work clothes before the doorbell would ring. Well, that was after we started insisting that she actually ring the doorbell and not just walk in.

 

Over time, that girl got a bit older, less interested and stopped coming by. Now she's got a new "friend". A really sweet girl, actually likes to help out a bit when she comes over, but is getting to that same very clingy stage. Trying to find out when she'll be home tomorrow so she can come by and really being tough to shake when we've got other things going on or are trying to avoid making plans with her the next day.

 

Here's the thing I don't get out of both situations. Why are the parents of either of these kids so willing to let their kids spend so much time at some other adult's house? Diana has barely spoken to this new girl's mom and I've never met her. But, besides being curious about who their kid is hanging out with, you'd think they'd also be looking to respect our privacy by stepping in and telling the kid that maybe they should take a day off every now and then.

 

In other words, be the bad guy. Because, coming from us, it sounds like "We don't want you around." Coming from her mom it could be "Maybe they just want to be alone today. Maybe they have other things to do." As in, don't even ask. Just do something else today. More importantly, teach them the lesson that, "you shouldn't ever force someone to tell you they don't want to hang out with you today. Sometimes they're too polite to tell you not to come over, but if you keep inviting yourself over there, they may want to."

 

Because, again, as good a kid as she is, it's starting to get out of hand. And I can't for the life of me understand why her mom is not stepping in and trying to control it a bit. I mean, it's not the kid's fault. She's just a kid.

 

ETA: I should mention that the parents seem to have at least had the talk about understanding that if we say it's time to go, it's time to go. Because the kids have said as much, even if they're still damned hard to shake anyway. But that seems like a rather half-assed approach on their part. I would expect them to, again, teach the kids about not forcing someone to tell you "no".

Edited July 26, 2011 by detlef

[BeeR]

It's simple, really; you expect too much from the avg parent. The sad thing is people like this (and far far worse, this is very tame by comparison) have no problem cranking out kids like an assembly line, but people like you and your wife who likely would make great parents don't. All hail idiocracy.

 

Things like this (and again far worse) remind me of this scene:

Edited July 26, 2011 by BeeR

[bpwallace49]

I really dont see the problem.

 

Just put them to work in your front yard garden weeding and have them clean the chit outta the chicken coop.

 

If they stick around, you get free child labor, of they leave, you eliminate the children that you dont want . . . . win/win

[Savage Beatings]

Have you ever said anything in the past to the parents or the kids that would give them an indication that you are getting upset about the situation? They might simply be under the impression that you either don't mind, or that you might enjoy their kids.

 

If you need to say something to them about it, just make sure the kids aren't around to hear. I'm sure the parents will probably think you are a dick, but at least you will end up kidless and happy once again.

[BeeR]

I really dont see the problem.

 

Just put them to work in your front yard garden weeding and have them clean the chit outta the chicken coop.

 

If they stick around, you get free child labor, of they leave, you eliminate the children that you dont want . . . . win/win

Wisdom here.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I've stopped wondering about what other parents do/think. The lack of courtesy from other adults is baffling.

 

Case in point: we have four kids, in a neighborhood full of kids. As you can imagine, our doorbell rings incessantly. I don't mind if its once in a while, but literally, its almost every hour, multiple times an hour. Our policy with our kids: don't ring for other kids. Just go outside and play, and more than likely, others will come out and play (the same way my kids want out if they see others outside playing). If my kids aren't out, its usually either because we are eating dinner, getting ready to go somewhere, or they are doing homework. If they are allowed out, they usually are. In all cases, the last thing I need is my kids rushing the door during dinner, or distracted from their studies. Most annoying, its the same kids ringing our doorbell every day, usually right after school. You'd think after countless "We do our homework after school" that they'd get the picture....not so.

 

Last straw: its 9:30 Sunday night, kids are bathed and getting ready to hit the sack...doorbell rings. "Can you come out and play flashlight tag"? Are you kidding? Who lets their 9-year old kid ring someones doorbell at 9:30 at night? Needless to say, the next 30 minutes for me was four kids begging to go out, why am I so mean....so much for quieting down for the night

[Clubfoothead]

Never give a mouse a cookie.

 

The girl will grow out of it as you noticed with the last one. Once she does, tell your wife to quit befriending the neighborhood strays.

[BeeR]

That's annoying.

 

We started putting notes on our front door... "kids sleeping." Half the people still knock, but some do come back later.

Maybe you should make the letters bigger, in all caps etc and add "DON'T KNOCK OR RING THE DOORBELL."

 

Or "Jehovah Witness Revival in progress."

[matt770]

When the trash next door moved in, I was over-the-top nice to them because I could immediately tell they were the types that could make our lives a living hell if we got into any kind of disagreement. They had numerous ill-behaved rugrats living there at any one time, and some would disappear for a few weeks or a month and then reappear. Anyway, I talked to them whenever I was outside and tried to build a rapport. Trouble was, these kids were ignored by their parents most of the time, and when they weren't being ignored, I'd hear something like, "CRUZ, JESUS CHRIST, WHAT THE F*CK IS ALL THIS SH*T ALL OVER THE FLOOR?!?!?! CLEAN THIS SH*T UP NOW OR DADDY IS GOING TO BEAT THE SH*T OUT OF YOU" (Cruz is 7 by the way).

 

So, I come outside to prune or whatever and they immediately want to talk to me, they follow me around, and eventually they fail to see any boundary between their yard and mine, since Mr. Matt is so nice. So before long I'd have all the damn kids in the neighborhood in my yard because it is kept up nicely and theirs is a sh*thole. And these kids liked to throw rocks which I would find all over my yard. Eventually I had to ignore them because they became increasingly rude and disrespectful, and I came to realize that being nice to them was the worst thing I could have done, because now I'm the assh0le who doesn't speak to them anymore. But, to this day, the youngest one doesn't get it, and every time I step outside -- "MR. MATT!!! WHAT'S IN THE BOX MR. MATT?? WHERE YOU GOING???". It's really sad because I know it's a result of abuse and neglect at home, but no way I'm getting involved in that.

 

Lesson learned...we're moving to a much better neighborhood but I plan on keeping my distance for just a bit to get a feel for the neighbors before I get too friendly. My wife is already talking about cooking a bunch of stuff for the old man next door whose wife is in hospice, and we haven't even closed yet.

[detlef]

It's simple, really; you expect too much from the avg parent. The sad thing is people like this (and far far worse, this is very tame by comparison) have no problem cranking out kids like an assembly line, but people like you and your wife who likely would make great parents don't. All hail idiocracy.

 

Things like this (and again far worse) remind me of this scene:

Here's the odd thing. Her father is a doctor and she's got very good manners and is always well groomed and dressed nicely. She calls my wife Ms. Diana. That's the sort of strange thing, it doesn't seem like her parents are screw-ups.

 

The people across the street seemed together enough, though super religious (which, as much as anything else may have led to their kid not hanging out at our house much any more. Her mom seemed to fill her head with plenty of stuff that she'd inadvertently repeat like, "You know, having dogs is no substitute for having kids." Right out of the blue. But that's another story.)

 

How many kids do they have?

I think she has two older brothers.

 

I really dont see the problem.

 

Just put them to work in your front yard garden weeding and have them clean the chit outta the chicken coop.

 

If they stick around, you get free child labor, of they leave, you eliminate the children that you dont want . . . . win/win

We sort of do.

 

Have you ever said anything in the past to the parents or the kids that would give them an indication that you are getting upset about the situation? They might simply be under the impression that you either don't mind, or that you might enjoy their kids.

 

If you need to say something to them about it, just make sure the kids aren't around to hear. I'm sure the parents will probably think you are a dick, but at least you will end up kidless and happy once again.

Well, it's not like we never want her around. Like I said, she's a good kid and my wife enjoys it to an extent. I'm just sort of surprised that the parents haven't taken this chance to teach their kid a lesson about this sort of thing.

 

I'd hope they think we don't mind, but I'd still think they'd have enough sense to step in.

[detlef]

Update:

 

Doorbell rang a few minutes ago. Guess who?

 

"I tried to call Ms. Diana last night about what time I could come over today but she never answered. I forget if she said she was busy tonight or not."

 

"She has to leave really early Wednesday morning for a business trip, so I'm pretty sure she'd busy tonight."

 

"And Wednesday?"

 

"Well, like I said, she's going to be gone for business, so Wednesday's out."

 

"Oh, that's OK. I guess one or two days is OK."

 

"Yep, it's going to have to be."

 

"OK, I'm just going to play with the dogs now."

 

Had to shut that down and almost gave her the talk. But I think I'm just going to have that talk with her parents instead.

 

ETA: Come to find out that she called Diana on her cellpone twice at work (she has it because we don't have a land line and Diana thought it best that her mom be able to call her if she was ever here), checking about tonight, but Diana was in a meeting and didn't answer. This was before she stopped by and talked to me.

 

OK, now we've really got to nip this in the bud.

Edited July 26, 2011 by detlef

[BeeR]

Here's the odd thing. Her father is a doctor and she's got very good manners and is always well groomed and dressed nicely. She calls my wife Ms. Diana. That's the sort of strange thing, it doesn't seem like her parents are screw-ups.

Maybe not in an over-the-top extreme way like the trailer park/ghetto losers matt described, but there are all kinds of ways a parent can suck as a parent and to various degrees. So maybe they aren't flat-out terrible parents, but for whatever reason they don't have a clue that their kid skipping off to someone else's house all the time for extended periods of time is rude.

 

PS: her father being a doctor is meaningless. Profession has nothing inherently to do with being or not being a good parent.

 

Well, it's not like we never want her around. Like I said, she's a good kid and my wife enjoys it to an extent. I'm just sort of surprised that the parents haven't taken this chance to teach their kid a lesson about this sort of thing.

It may just be a simple misunderstanding. They know you like having the kid around and figure win/win, they like having the break with the kid not around.

 

I'd hope they think we don't mind, but I'd still think they'd have enough sense to step in.

Common sense and common courtesy are the ultimate oxymorons.

[Savage Beatings]

OK, now we've really got to nip this in the bud.

 

Yeah, that's getting a bit extreme when the kid is calling her on her cell multiple times during work hours. I wonder if her parents are aware of that kind of behavior? If so, that's definitely a problem that they would allow it to continue.

[detlef]

Diana's going to call today.

 

There's another wrinkle that I didn't mention earlier because I'm not sure to what degree it's true. But I think she has some sort of learning disability or is maybe barely autistic or something. In some ways, she's very on top of things but in other ways, not so much. And, well, she sort of talks funny for lack of a better way of saying it. But, she's 12 and needs a ton of guidance when she's "helping out".

 

Once I was putting my laundry on the line and she asked to help, so I told her she could rummage through the hamper and grab socks that matched. She took no shortage of glee when she did, and, while I'm certainly no expert on kids, I would expect that to be something that a 12 year old would not find as exciting.

 

The other girls are also not very nice to her, though she's very kind. So, there's that. And that is why we want to be particularly careful of her feelings.

[Footballjoe]

Diana's going to call today.

 

There's another wrinkle that I didn't mention earlier because I'm not sure to what degree it's true. But I think she has some sort of learning disability or is maybe barely autistic or something. In some ways, she's very on top of things but in other ways, not so much. And, well, she sort of talks funny for lack of a better way of saying it. But, she's 12 and needs a ton of guidance when she's "helping out".

 

Once I was putting my laundry on the line and she asked to help, so I told her she could rummage through the hamper and grab socks that matched. She took no shortage of glee when she did, and, while I'm certainly no expert on kids, I would expect that to be something that a 12 year old would not find as exciting.

 

The other girls are also not very nice to her, though she's very kind. So, there's that. And that is why we want to be particularly careful of her feelings.

 

 

That should have been mentioned IMO. I can't say I know a lot about ones with learning disabilites and the like but do know many of them get very attached. My wife was working as a Social Worker a few years back helping older mentally handicapped persons find jobs. Many got very attached to her. Some would call our house (partically one) even after my wife left the job. This went on for some time but not nearly to the extent you have mentioned. IMO you need to speak to the parents about this. Also if you want the child to visit maybe your wife can set up "playdates" so the child does not feel rejected. She probably doesn't have many, if any friends. Not that its your responsibilty but it helps explain the reason why she is over so much.

[detlef]

That should have been mentioned IMO. I can't say I know a lot about ones with learning disabilites and the like but do know many of them get very attached. My wife was working as a Social Worker a few years back helping older mentally handicapped persons find jobs. Many got very attached to her. Some would call our house (partically one) even after my wife left the job. This went on for some time but not nearly to the extent you have mentioned. IMO you need to speak to the parents about this. Also if you want the child to visit maybe your wife can set up "playdates" so the child does not feel rejected. She probably doesn't have many, if any friends. Not that its your responsibilty but it helps explain the reason why she is over so much.

Again, I was hesitant to bring it up because I'm not sure to what degree it's accurate. I mean, if she is, it's not big. And this behavior is not unlike what we went through with the kid across the street who seems like a normal, messed-up, jaded, pre-teen.

 

On another note entirely, there's one thing I always get a kick out of. She refers to herself as a "rising 6th grader". When did we start saying that about anyone younger than HS age? Pretty funny and cute at the same time.

[matt770]

If she's mentally handicapped, all the more reason for the parents to do a better job monitoring where she goes.

[Azazello1313]

sounds fairly harmless. it's when they start chucking frisbees that all bets are off.

[detlef]

If she's mentally handicapped, all the more reason for the parents to do a better job monitoring where she goes.

I'm nearly certain her mom knows where she is and, it's not as if she's never met my wife. But rather, that they're not "friends" or some such. Just conversations when she's picked her kid up or when Diana has picked her up to take her to the Farmer's Market or what-not.

 

However, assuming she does have some learning disability, and again I'm only speculating, I would have expected her mom to pull my wife aside at some point and hip her to the situation. Assuming there is one. At least after it was apparent how much time her kid was spending over here.

[detlef]

sounds fairly harmless. it's when they start chucking frisbees that all bets are off.

Trust me, if we were at frisbees, I wouldn't be here asking you momos what to do, I'd be over there drawing down.

[Bier Meister]

maybe an "hours of operation" schedule for when it's ok to come over. pick your days and hours.

[matt770]

I'm nearly certain her mom knows where she is and, it's not as if she's never met my wife. But rather, that they're not "friends" or some such. Just conversations when she's picked her kid up or when Diana has picked her up to take her to the Farmer's Market or what-not.

 

However, assuming she does have some learning disability, and again I'm only speculating, I would have expected her mom to pull my wife aside at some point and hip her to the situation. Assuming there is one. At least after it was apparent how much time her kid was spending over here.

I can't imagine letting my kid, mentally handicapped or not, spend that much time at an adult's home, especially ones I didn't know very well. We would have plenty of chores at home she could be doing, and she would be involved in other activities too. My guess, the parents are busy, mentally handicapped kids are very demanding and they are being lazy and are just happy she's out of their hair.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Give them a call, and gently ask what kind of mental disability their child has.

 

Two outcomes:

 

1. They answer "none", take your question as an insult, and never let their child at your house again.

 

2. They inform you of her disability, which opens the door for the conversation you had hoped to have.

 

win-win?

[Azazello1313]

I can't imagine letting my kid, mentally handicapped or not, spend that much time at an adult's home, especially ones I didn't know very well. We would have plenty of chores at home she could be doing, and she would be involved in other activities too. My guess, the parents are busy, mentally handicapped kids are very demanding and they are being lazy and are just happy she's out of their hair.

 

either that or the kid enjoys herself and the parent doesn't want to crap on that if she doesn't have to, and she assumes mrs detlef will set any boundaries she deems appropriate.

 

now it's true that some people are bad at saying no, and in reconizing that fact the parent should probably check in from time to time without the kid around to make sure all of this is OK and her kid's not becoming a nuisance. but I don't think it's THAT insane or ridiculous to assume that it's ok up to the point where mrs. detlef sets boundaries.

 

while parents who don't parent at all are certainly a problem, I actually think we also have way too many parents who completely micromanage their kids lives. with that in mind, a parent who lets their kid have a relationship with a trusted neighbor basically on the kid's and the neighbor's own terms without hovering over the situation like a seagull-manager, well, I'm just not so quick to jump to the conclusion that they're derelict or lazy.

[Azazello1313]

Diana's going to call today.

 

There's another wrinkle that I didn't mention earlier because I'm not sure to what degree it's true. But I think she has some sort of learning disability or is maybe barely autistic or something. In some ways, she's very on top of things but in other ways, not so much. And, well, she sort of talks funny for lack of a better way of saying it. But, she's 12 and needs a ton of guidance when she's "helping out".

 

Once I was putting my laundry on the line and she asked to help, so I told her she could rummage through the hamper and grab socks that matched. She took no shortage of glee when she did, and, while I'm certainly no expert on kids, I would expect that to be something that a 12 year old would not find as exciting.

 

The other girls are also not very nice to her, though she's very kind. So, there's that. And that is why we want to be particularly careful of her feelings.

 

is it out of the question that she talks to the kid herself? I mean, I think talking to the parent might be a good idea in addition (particularly if there is any sort of handicap at play), but it might be nice to treat the 12 year old young lady as an actual person. she'd probably get more out of it.