Unions are worthless and need to go

[cliaz]

Not all, just 99% of them. After reading the articles posted about the recent Verizon employee strike I can tell you with 100% certainty that what is being reported in the news by the Union representatives is complete and utter nonsense and borderline lies.

 

 

CWA spokesman Bob Master told CNN that some conversations were still going on, but he called the bargaining "the worst we've ever seen in 50 years." He said the company is demanding rollbacks of wages, benefits and union rules while posting profits of up to $6 billion.

 

Blithering false. The company is not demanding rollbacks of wages, benefits and union rules, they are demanding that the union employees contribute to their benefits package like everyone else. Up to $100 a month. It cost Verizon 400k an hour to cover employees. He fails to mention that during the highest of the recession when Verizon was laying off people left and right and most of the US was collapsing under the weight of all the unemployed people that the union threaten to strike if those 45k employees didn't receive a guaranteed 12% increase over 3 years....4% per year!!!! And they did strike for 18 days costing Vz 40 million and crippling customer support. When most people were jobless no less. that in turn caused our division to cut 1% of the workforce so that these dinosaurs could get their 4%. Yeah, they really care about workers. BS unions

 

The rules they want to get rid of deal with the doubling up of people who are dispatched to certain areas of NYC which used to be historically high crime areas and now up and coming hipster neighborhoods. And the discipline pay which is if you are written up and get suspended, you still receive your 40 hours of pay for the week(s) you are suspended. Now how does that make sense?

 

"Verizon is not General Motors or Ford," Master said. "This is a company that has made billions upon billions of dollars. Because of the recession and anti-union climate, they have decided to try and drive down the middle-class standards of our members."

 

Again, completely false. Verizon hasn't made billions and billons IN NET. And this line about anti-union climate and trying to drive down the middle-class standards of their members, sh*t, i wish I got paid what they receive. These mother f*ckers are not middle class, they make way more than they let on and abuse the system.

 

I am all for fair labor but these two unions involved are well beyond being fair. They realize that the Telco division has about 5 maybe 8 more years before it is obsolete so they are raping Vz for all they can. If I were Vz, I would tell them to have a good day and do not come back. We've already filled the vacant positions internally and can maintain operations until hiring and training of replacement non-union labor can be performed.

Edited August 7, 2011 by cliaz

[BeeR]

Insert Lindbergh baby comment here. POSs have become the power mongers they were created to combat.

[polksalet]

The only uinion thing I've ever really had good knowledge of involved our local Cooper tire plant. About 5-6 years back Cooper mentioned that in the unspecified future they would like for the employees to have a $10 copay for dental visits. Note that that all of the insurance for employees and families was 100% covered. The union decided to strike. A couple of months went by and after moving management to the lines production barely dropped so the union caved.Six months later the company announced they were closing the plant. Instead the uinon took a deal to keep the plant open. The deal was basically "all employees and retirees had to pay $10 copay for dentist visits and starting wages were reduced from 18 to 12 bucks an hour.

[tazinib1]

Very proud member of IATSE 728 thank you very much. Not sure how long your union officers are tenured, but ours have only 2 years.

 

Before I joined the Hollywood union, I was a member of the IATSE 495 in San Diego. It's probably one of the worst run unions I can think of and most of the members complain non stop about it . Be that as it may, last year when all positions went to a vote, less that HALF of the members showed up. Well the same manager and president were elected for another 2 years.

 

If you are not happy with the way your union is being run, you can always elect somebody else.

[cliaz]

If you are not happy with the way your union is being run, you can always elect somebody else.

 

Oh I am not in a union. I've been in several before and none - including the teamsters - were worth their salt. I refuse to belong to a union as they are nothing more than legalized extortion.

 

that being said, certain areas of employment I firmly believe need a union to protect the employees. Hence my 99% statement.

[tosberg34]

Not all, just 99% of them. After reading the articles posted about the recent Verizon employee strike I can tell you with 100% certainty that what is being reported in the news by the Union representatives is complete and utter nonsense and borderline lies.

 

 

 

 

Blithering false. The company is not demanding rollbacks of wages, benefits and union rules, they are demanding that the union employees contribute to their benefits package like everyone else. Up to $100 a month. It cost Verizon 400k an hour to cover employees. He fails to mention that during the highest of the recession when Verizon was laying off people left and right and most of the US was collapsing under the weight of all the unemployed people that the union threaten to strike if those 45k employees didn't receive a guaranteed 12% increase over 3 years....4% per year!!!! And they did strike for 18 days costing Vz 40 million and crippling customer support. When most people were jobless no less. that in turn caused our division to cut 1% of the workforce so that these dinosaurs could get their 4%. Yeah, they really care about workers. BS unions

 

The rules they want to get rid of deal with the doubling up of people who are dispatched to certain areas of NYC which used to be historically high crime areas and now up and coming hipster neighborhoods. And the discipline pay which is if you are written up and get suspended, you still receive your 40 hours of pay for the week(s) you are suspended. Now how does that make sense?

 

 

 

Again, completely false. Verizon hasn't made billions and billons IN NET. And this line about anti-union climate and trying to drive down the middle-class standards of their members, sh*t, i wish I got paid what they receive. These mother f*ckers are not middle class, they make way more than they let on and abuse the system.

 

I am all for fair labor but these two unions involved are well beyond being fair. They realize that the Telco division has about 5 maybe 8 more years before it is obsolete so they are raping Vz for all they can. If I were Vz, I would tell them to have a good day and do not come back. We've already filled the vacant positions internally and can maintain operations until hiring and training of replacement non-union labor can be performed.

 

Just remember - Because of the Democratic Party unions we have fire, the wheel, sliced bread, the internet and 40 hour work weeks. We owe them a debt that can never be repaid so we need to give them whatever they want.

 

$100 bucks a month - are you f'n kidding me? That is utterly ridiculous. They have families to support (unlike the rest of us non-union workers). How would you like if your boss said to you, "Hey, cliaz, we need you to pay $100 a month for your benefits?" You'd probably go tell him to go f##k himself too.

 

Do you know how much $100 is? Over a year that is $1200. Over 10 years that is $12 THOUSAND dollars! Now do you get it? The fact that most everyone else pays 8-12K a year in benefits is beside the point.

 

Remember this next time you want to bad mouth unions and accuse them of lying.

 

I think I speak on the behalf of all the unions when I say we are waiting for your apology (and union dues - even though you're not in one we still need it for democratic candidates the children).

Edited August 8, 2011 by tosberg34

[The Wolf]

Oh I am not in a union. I've been in several before and none - including the teamsters - were worth their salt. I refuse to belong to a union as they are nothing more than legalized extortion.

 

that being said, certain areas of employment I firmly believe need a union to protect the employees. Hence my 99% statement.

 

Totally agree here. There was a time when unions were needed but instead of protecting their members from unfair labor practices, they extort businesses so that some guy who stands in a street and waves a flag 5 hours a day can retire at 40 with $1.5 million in an annuity waiting for him. Bullsh1t...unions have to go and the work would still get done.

[Clubfoothead]

Poor little Verizon.

[caddyman]

Poor little Verizon.

Poor little club...always a victim of the evil rich

[SEC=UGA]

If I were Verizon.... I'd fire every single goddamn one of them. I'd incur the upfront costs of hiring and training and set the company up for the future, not being strapped to these monkies any longer.

 

By most accounts, from Verizon, that is, these are people that are making 80 to 100K per year with OT. They pay no co-pay for their incurance and Verizon is asking that they switch from pensions, freezing the pension value where it is, and switch them over to a 401K plan with a great match.

 

From an income perspective, the people are in the upper 5 to 15% of income earners and they should pay their fair share.

[Ditkaless Wonders]

There was a time when unions were essentialy to battle brutal exploitation. The law did not offer workers any protection o only by banding together in unions were workers able to razise themselves above the status of beasts.

 

Upon the rise of union power the law, and lawmakersw took notice. They championed the union cause codifying into law all of their reassonable demeands, and some would say some of their unreasonable ones as well. Unions won. Upon victory they did not disband. Having tasted power they liked it. They became in may ways that which they had fought.

 

Now they often stand as an impediment to reacting in a timely fashion to changing business climates. They often hurt the host upon which they rely. They need a symbiotic relationship, but instead, sometimes, they become a deadly parasite.

 

As it stands now I believe most unions should be disbanded or at the least that they need to stand down in their demands so that business can react to the current economic factors. I believe this, however. Upon disbanding, or standing down, the workers need to be vigilant. Given time greed will drive amny employers to again seek to explot workers. The pendulum will swing and the unons will need to rise again.

[Grimm74]

I worked for Verizon landline in charlotte, nc. I was not part of a union, but was on the phone with one of the outside techs(union) trouble shooting a problem. Half way through the problem the tech says "i got to go" and hung up the phone. I was shocked and could not figure out what happened until someone explained it to me. It was noon sharp. Lunch time. This was very consistent. Funny thing was nonunion guys in identical positions got better pay and benefits. The only thing the union offered was guaranteed work hours and job security. No one should have job security. All it does is promote massive laziness and destroys innovation.

 

Needless to say I am not a fan of unions. I think they had a roll back in the day but in today's world of the 24 hour news cycle any outrages will be front page.

[Kid Cid]

One thing you have to remember is that when you're pulling your leaders from the rank and file, you're not always getting the best and brightest to lead you. It is relatively easy for the masses to be pushed in one direction or another by those that have their own agenda or just like mayhem. It is a shame because individuals DO need protection from the actions of business. Greed has been and always will be the prime motivator for any business; the whole point of a business is to make money. Labor and as an extension people, are nothing more than numbers to be manipulated in such a way as to maximize the profits of the business.

 

So there is DEFINITELY a place for unions in this world. The problem is that most of the people running unions were never properly educated on how to run a business or take care of a group of people. So break out an old adage, when all you have is a hammer, every problem is seen as a nail. The only way for unionized sectors of our economy to be successful is for the union and the management to work hand in hand, not just at the negotiating table, but in every aspect of that organization involving union employees. Much like everything else in this country, the dialog between union and management is seen as a contest over the spoils rather than a partnership designed to protect the workers while advancing the profitability of the company.

[Kid Cid]

I worked for Verizon landline in charlotte, nc. I was not part of a union, but was on the phone with one of the outside techs(union) trouble shooting a problem. Half way through the problem the tech says "i got to go" and hung up the phone. I was shocked and could not figure out what happened until someone explained it to me. It was noon sharp. Lunch time. This was very consistent. Funny thing was nonunion guys in identical positions got better pay and benefits. The only thing the union offered was guaranteed work hours and job security. No one should have job security. All it does is promote massive laziness and destroys innovation.

 

Needless to say I am not a fan of unions. I think they had a roll back in the day but in today's world of the 24 hour news cycle any outrages will be front page.

BFD if it is on the news. The minute the next great disaster comes on the news, anything might have been happening is immediately forgotten. We've just seen what happens when there are no checks and balances upon business; greed rules the day and individuals get screwed in the face of the money and power that business exert. Unions are one of the few tools that the individual workers has to protect him or herself.

[cliaz]

One thing you have to remember is that when you're pulling your leaders from the rank and file, you're not always getting the best and brightest to lead you. It is relatively easy for the masses to be pushed in one direction or another by those that have their own agenda or just like mayhem. It is a shame because individuals DO need protection from the actions of business. Greed has been and always will be the prime motivator for any business; the whole point of a business is to make money. Labor and as an extension people, are nothing more than numbers to be manipulated in such a way as to maximize the profits of the business.

 

So there is DEFINITELY a place for unions in this world. The problem is that most of the people running unions were never properly educated on how to run a business or take care of a group of people. So break out an old adage, when all you have is a hammer, every problem is seen as a nail. The only way for unionized sectors of our economy to be successful is for the union and the management to work hand in hand, not just at the negotiating table, but in every aspect of that organization involving union employees. Much like everything else in this country, the dialog between union and management is seen as a contest over the spoils rather than a partnership designed to protect the workers while advancing the profitability of the company.

 

My personal experience is that the Unions here are hampering progress for those employees in order to maintain a state of neediness by the employees for the union. My company has be very good to non-union employees and there is very little I could complain about. For me, I feel that unions are needed in the following areas:

 

Police

Fire/EMS

Miners

Machinists

Basically, any occupation where death can occur swiftly

 

I do believe that the actual linemen for Verizon who climb up on those high voltage lines need a union to protect them but people installing FIOS? dunno

[bpwallace49]

Ahh .. . . another union thread.

 

I am sure this will end well. . .

[SEC=UGA]

One thing you have to remember is that when you're pulling your leaders from the rank and file, you're not always getting the best and brightest to lead you. It is relatively easy for the masses to be pushed in one direction or another by those that have their own agenda or just like mayhem. It is a shame because individuals DO need protection from the actions of business. Greed has been and always will be the prime motivator for any business; the whole point of a business is to make money. Labor and as an extension people, are nothing more than numbers to be manipulated in such a way as to maximize the profits of the business.

 

So there is DEFINITELY a place for unions in this world. The problem is that most of the people running unions were never properly educated on how to run a business or take care of a group of people. So break out an old adage, when all you have is a hammer, every problem is seen as a nail. The only way for unionized sectors of our economy to be successful is for the union and the management to work hand in hand, not just at the negotiating table, but in every aspect of that organization involving union employees. Much like everything else in this country, the dialog between union and management is seen as a contest over the spoils rather than a partnership designed to protect the workers while advancing the profitability of the company.

 

A company wanting to make money is "Greed" and employee shutting down a company'd operations over a dispute regarding money is noble? That seems to be the implication in your post.

 

It's called an adversarial realtionship, the relationship between the unions and employers. They aren't partners, they are enemies. The union creates this atmosphere and it leads to inefficiency and mistrust.

[bpwallace49]

From an income perspective, the people are in the upper 5 to 15% of income earners and they should pay their fair share.

 

SEC, that quote is pure gold . . . . but where and in what context have I seen it before?

[SEC=UGA]

SEC, that quote is pure gold . . . . but where and in what context have I seen it before?

 

Hey, I'm just wanting the rich to kick in their fair share.

[caddyman]

Ahh .. . . another union thread.

 

I am sure this will end well. . .

Now that you are here...that is probably true. Thanks for stopping by.

[SEC=UGA]

The descent into mayhem has occurred.

[bpwallace49]

Now that you are here...that is probably true. Thanks for stopping by.

 

Thanks for the insightful comment Zeke!

 

As I have been outspoken against unions, as usual you are WAY off base. But most of these union discussion unravel quickly.

[bpwallace49]

Hey, I'm just wanting the rich to kick in their fair share.

 

[WaterMan]

Another corporation that is going to lose their best people. They will probably outsource more to Taiwan soon.

[SEC=UGA]

Another corporation that is going to lose their best people. They will probably outsource more to Taiwan soon.

 

Maybe, you should look into working for Verizon and raise the bar even higher.