untateve Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Good analysis. Welcome aboard. You can stay. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonedaddies Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) That stat is Uber Elite. If you want to see his brain at work, analyze his TD run against the Jets. What we see is a designed roll out left with a 3 deep vertical route on the offense vs a mass blitz by the defense. Tebow reacted to Safety blitzing in from an OLB/DE position. The player took a bad angle which Tebow picked up on and ran right by him causing him to wheel and pursue. The result was a TD. That recognition skill was friggen amazing that few would ever pick up and process that information quick enough to turn into 6 points. He is obviously studying the game very hard and has the skill to make defenses pay for mistakes. Agree that this was awesome by Tebow, not too many guys have the ability to do this, but compare it to a few great passing QB's that read this same play...they call an audible at the LOS, change the route on the left from a Vertical to a slant, take a 2 step drop and hit him for a TD. Edited November 30, 2011 by Bonedaddies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 He is a throwback in his completion percentage but then again look at this guys stats: Who is he? 4-6 as a first year starter 123 - 259 47.5% completion percentage, 7 TD's 14 INT's. 28 carries for 146 yards and 1 TD.. 6 fumbles as a starter his first year...... Won a Heisman, Consensus All American, Career NFL QB rating under 80. Career completion percentage under 57%, never hit the 60% completion percentage mark until his 11th season, 1st ballot HOF. Known as a great athlete coming out of college, never very accurate but certainly won a lot of games..... Elway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Elway That would be correct! While I highly doubt Tebow will ever be in Elway's class, he certainly has started out considerably stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The offense has been, by all statistical measure, terrible. do rushing yardage and turnover ratio count as "statistical measures"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 the real reason the broncos are playing better as a team....tebow's thumpin that bible in team meetings... On the night before he delivered the Denver Broncos to their fourth straight win, Tim Tebow was asked by coach John Fox to address his teammates. According to the Denver Post, Tebow turned to the Bible, quoting Proverbs 27:17: "Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Tebow's motivational message worked. The Broncos put together their third fourth-quarter comeback since Tebow took over for starter Kyle Orton, rallying past rival San Diego for a 16-13 overtime win. "He said iron sharpens iron and men sharpen other men. And I think that's totally true," rookie linebacker Von Miller told The Post. "He gave us a great speech. We came out (for the game) fired up. And that was a wrap." Tebow, when told of his teammates' reaction to Saturday's speech, was touched. "It was a huge honor," Tebow told The Post of being given the chance to speak. "I just tried to share from the heart." For the first time all season, Tebow completed at least half of his passes Sunday, going 9 for 18 for 188 yards and had strikes of 39 yards to Eric Decker and 23 to Dante Rosario on the game-tying drive late in the fourth quarter. "I've never seen a human who can will himself to win like that," Miller told The Post. The Broncos (6-5) are 5-1 under Tebow and have forced their way into the race for a playoff spot. They face the Vikings in Minnesota on Sunday. GLORY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis29 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 do rushing yardage and turnover ratio count as "statistical measures"? Fair enough - they are up to 5th in the league in yards per rushing attempt, and have improved their takeaway count (although they are still -4 for the season). But they are also fourth in the league in total punts, and that average has increased under Tebow - under Orton, the offense had 23 punts in five games, under Tebow they've had 46 punts in six games. Again, it's the defense. They've managed to keep the game close enough for Tebow to ride out as the victor on the white horse. I highly doubt this is a sustainable NFL offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Is it possible that since Orton had 7 ints and 2 fumbles that he was decreasing the number of punts Denver had because of these turnovers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Fair enough - they are up to 5th in the league in yards per rushing attempt, and have improved their takeaway count (although they are still -4 for the season). they are first in the league (by a wide margin) in rushing offense since tebow took over. they are averaging 208 rushing yards per game under tebow, eagles are next best averaging 159 yards per game for the season. they are also averaging 0.83 giveaways per game under tebow, which is also best in the league (niners are averaging 0.91 for the season). they were averaging 2.4 giveaways per game under orton, which ranks near the worst in the league. Edited November 30, 2011 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Rolling with him this week with Vick out. Might even go to church to increase my chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Rolling with him this week with Vick out. Might even go to church to increase my chances. Does it matter which church? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Tebow hater: Tim Tebow, Broncos go back to school Everybody be at the pep rally after school -- senior Tim Tebow is leading Denver Broncos High School to state! Yeah! Denver is, improbably, the NFL's hottest team outside Wisconsin, 5-1 since Tebow took the reins. Those fans in the bleachers who'd been chanting for Tebow -- they were right. But then in high school, the booster club always knows. Maybe for the next home game, the Broncos should run out through a big sheet of paper that was decorated at the pep rally with "Go Broncos" and "XXOO" written all over by the cheerleaders. The Broncos are tearing up the NFL using high school tactics. A week ago, defeating the Jets, Denver was running the option while Jersey/B was quick-snapping for hitch screens. It was high school versus college from a tactics standpoint: High school won on a crazed quarterback scramble by Tebow for a 20-yard touchdown. Denver had 229 total yards of offense and 11 first downs -- a prep-game stat. Yet the Broncos prevailed. Sunday at San Diego, adjusting for sacks and scrambles, Denver coaches called 19 rushing plays for Tebow and 19 passing plays for him. Tebow threw a perfect stop-and-go touchdown to Eric Decker. The stop-and-go and out-and-up are staples of high school football; inexperienced defensive backs who are assuming a run play reliably fall for these. Denver set the play up with the prep formula of run-run-run then throw deep. The zone-read option Denver used for much of the game against the Chargers was straight out of "Friday Night Lights," or at least, what's been trendy under Friday night lights in recent seasons. Repeatedly, Tebow held the ball in front of the tailback and read the unblocked defensive lineman: That's the "read" part of a zone-read rush. If the lineman moved toward the tailback, Tebow kept the ball, often executing the old-fashioned "midline option" on which the tailback leads into the hole and the quarterback follows. On Denver's final drive in overtime, Broncos High School ran the zone-read option run on three consecutive snaps, resulting in 40 yards gained and field position for the winning field goal. Tebow even used the high school tactic of running out. In a prep offense, after the quarterback hands off, he sprints in the opposite direction, hoping a defender will follow him. This tactic hasn't been observed in the pros since the 1950s. Having the quarterback run out after handing off is seen as beneath the dignity of NFL quarterbacks, who always simply stand and watch after giving the ball to a runner. This has a practical value -- by NFL rules if a quarterback is not "attempting to participate in the action of the down," he cannot be hit. At San Diego, Tebow enthusiastically ran out the other way each time he handed off, just as a high school quarterback would. The Bolts were so rattled that by the second half, a man was going with Tebow when he ran out empty-handed. Late in the third quarter, Denver faced third-and-5. Tebow was flushed from the pocket and rolled left. San Diego linebacker Travis LaBoy slammed to a stop at the line of scrimmage and didn't pursue Tebow, so worried was he about losing contain. Tebow threw for a first down, and Broncos High School recorded a field goal on the possession. The cheerleaders should have done push-ups! It's not that high school-flavored offenses have never been employed in the contemporary NFL. Five years ago, Carolina defeated the Falcons by rushing 52 times and attempting seven passes, a stat any prep coach would feel comfortable with. The game occurred on Christmas Eve, and so had no impact on football consciousness. But it showed that when presented as a surprise tactic, high school offense can work in the pass-wacky NFL. Denver's victory over San Diego was aided by spectacular play from Von Miller -- see below. Tebow continues to be Tebow: He does things that make purists wince, but when the double whistle sounds, his team has more points than the other team. And the Broncos were aided by yet another example of passive decision-making by San Diego's Norv Turner, who is the George McClellan of the NFL. With 42 seconds showing in regulation, San Diego had the ball on its 30, holding a timeout. Turner decided to exhaust the clock and proceed to overtime -- when all the Bolts needed was a field goal! Not one chance in a million Bill Belichick or Sean Payton makes that call. It's a sign of how far out of touch Turner is that he told the San Diego Union-Tribune of the docile decision, "I think we did the right thing." Fun Tebow note: reader Derek Knowlton of Layton, Utah, points out that owing to the run-oriented game plans of Broncos High School, Tebow does not have enough pass attempts to appear in the NFL's quarterback rankings. If Tebow were ranked, "His current NFL passer rating of 80.5 is better than Joe Flacco, Michael Vick and Matt Cassel. His average of one touchdown per 17.9 passes is better than Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger and Jay Cutler. His one interception in 143 attempts is the lowest interception rate in the NFL, lower even than Aaron Rodgers." Now that defensive coordinators have film of Tebow running the offense seen on Friday nights, its effectiveness is likely to decline. But until then -- hey kids, don't miss the next Broncos High School game! Buy some baked goods to support the drum line! Vote for our team to be featured on local access cable! See you at the car-hop drive-in afterward! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis29 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Is it possible that since Orton had 7 ints and 2 fumbles that he was decreasing the number of punts Denver had because of these turnovers? That would explain part of the difference, certainly. But not nearly all of it. And Orton was a TERRIBLE quarterback right? It's not like we're comparing Tebow to Rodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 That would explain part of the difference, certainly. But not nearly all of it. And Orton was a TERRIBLE quarterback right? It's not like we're comparing Tebow to Rodgers. I wasn't comparing any QBs at all...just wondering if the difference in number of punts since tebow took over might have to do with the significant decrease in Denver turnovers (at least in part). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I wasn't comparing any QBs at all...just wondering if the difference in number of punts since tebow took over might have to do with the significant decrease in Denver turnovers (at least in part). No doubt it does, if you don't turn it over there's a chance you will punt. But I think a portion of it is also because they are so anemic on offense for most of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 No doubt it does, if you don't turn it over there's a chance you will punt. But I think a portion of it is also because they are so anemic on offense for most of the game. They do rank dead last in the NFL in 3rd down conversion since Tebow took over. So there is certainly some truth to this. Running the ball and not turning it over are nice. But one thing that doesn't change is that the filed is still 100yds long and you need to go all the way to the endzone for a TD. So, regardless of how well you run it, if, overall, you're not eating up yardage, you're probably not going to score much. And that's something that may end up coming back to haunt you. And it doesn't take an offensive juggernaut to expose this. Ask my Niners. Smith has shown himself to be a better passer than Tebow, but the offense isn't exactly a machine. They sort of do it in fits and starts, and go three and out more than they should. And when they ran into a top D, they couldn't give their D any support and lost a game where the D only allowed 16 points by double digits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh B Tool Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 What I'm really curious to see is what will happen when Denver gets behind by 2 touchdowns or more. When the score is close, this offense works as well as it can for it's limitations. When it is not close and they have to play comeback football of major proportions, then look out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 What I'm really curious to see is what will happen when Denver gets behind by 2 touchdowns or more. It happened against Miami and they won in OT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 They do rank dead last in the NFL in 3rd down conversion since Tebow took over. So there is certainly some truth to this. Running the ball and not turning it over are nice. But one thing that doesn't change is that the filed is still 100yds long and you need to go all the way to the endzone for a TD. So, regardless of how well you run it, if, overall, you're not eating up yardage, you're probably not going to score much. And that's something that may end up coming back to haunt you. And it doesn't take an offensive juggernaut to expose this. Ask my Niners. Smith has shown himself to be a better passer than Tebow, but the offense isn't exactly a machine. They sort of do it in fits and starts, and go three and out more than they should. And when they ran into a top D, they couldn't give their D any support and lost a game where the D only allowed 16 points by double digits. Just wanted to point out a few facts: Denver ranks #1 in Rushing in the NFL Denver ranks #5 in YPC on the ground in the NFL 11 teams are worse in scoring offense 7 teams are worse in total yards per game 6 more teams are only 10 yards better in total per game 5 more teams are only at most 32,7 more yards per game Zero teams have a better turnover ratio then Denver since Tebow. Denver Defense ranks 18th in YPG Denver Defense ranks 22nd in points per game No doubt there are Lies, Damn Lies, and Stats but the bottom line, he is a 5-1 record as starter. It is not like anyone is saying he is Rodgers or even that Denver has anywhere near the talent of several major SB contending offenses but the reality is this is a team that only won 4 games all of last year, one of which he started, and now as a starter he has clicked off 5 wins. I do find it funny how many can't stand the guy or say he can't win long term but the fact remains he is winning at a serious rate due in large part because he has that it factor. That factor is he protects the ball and simply avoids catastrophic mistakes. He is a grinder, like the team. There are lots of ways to win in this league and Denver does gain a few more yards per game then SF and around 22 yards less then the Ravens with a worse defense then both. Denver is conservative but the real key is they simply don't make the major mistakes like the Chargers as an example who average around 75 more yards per game and have a QB that racks up top 5 passing yards. Who wants Rivers? Way better passer but 21 turnovers, or Tebow, way fewer passing yards but way better rushing with 2 total turnovers both in one game. That spread makes it an easy choice IMO. He will never be the top tier passer like a Brady but he will remain a starter as long as he wins games and continues to protect the football. The Niners BTW have a team that could go deep in the playoffs because they play a great team game. The Bronco's, well they seem to be very similar these days with a solid offense, a fast rising defense and special teams. These teams are both very good and playing mistake free while capitalizing on other teams mistakes. Alex Smith as an example will be in contention for comeback player of the year; Why? He plays mistake free and has better weapons then Tebow and no doubt has a better defense keeping them in every game. Yes, lots of ways to win in this league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Just wanted to point out a few facts: Denver ranks #1 in Rushing in the NFL Denver ranks #5 in YPC on the ground in the NFL 11 teams are worse in scoring offense 7 teams are worse in total yards per game 6 more teams are only 10 yards better in total per game 5 more teams are only at most 32,7 more yards per game Zero teams have a better turnover ratio then Denver since Tebow. Denver Defense ranks 18th in YPG Denver Defense ranks 22nd in points per game No doubt there are Lies, Damn Lies, and Stats but the bottom line, he is a 5-1 record as starter. Sort of, actually. You point out the turnover ration since Tebow but all the rest of the stats are for the whole season. A bit disingenuous, no? And, since when is it a feather in your cap to have only 7 out of 31 other teams worse than you at something? Edited December 1, 2011 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Protect the ball? Most QBs who throw 10 passes a game will be good at protecting the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Sort of, actually. You point out the turnover ration since Tebow but all the rest of the stats are for the whole season. A bit disingenuous, no? And, since when is it a feather in your cap to have only 7 out of 31 other teams worse than you at something? broncos are better in total yards per game since tebow took over, enough so that on a per game average, they'd be above a lot more than 7 teams. it's kind of weird to accuse him of being disingenuous when figuring it your way would make his point stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turf Smurf Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Good analysis. Welcome aboard. You can stay. I thought I was reading a Chef! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) broncos are better in total yards per game since tebow took over, enough so that on a per game average, they'd be above a lot more than 7 teams. it's kind of weird to accuse him of being disingenuous when figuring it your way would make his point stronger. And worse in scoring, so that's a wash. The part I was referring to was the D. It appeared that he was arguing the D is not as stout as those of us who want to give primary credit to that side of the ball are making it out to be. So he showed how they were 18th in yardage and 22nd in scoring. However, over the last six games, even given the Detroit game when the D was not on the field for 14 pts, they're still about top 10 in scoring D. Edited December 1, 2011 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Isn't this thead about Tebow's skills? The Broncos are 31st in passing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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