I guess Ben Tate is more than a handcuff

[detlef]

So, as a Foster owner, I have Ben Tate in both leagues I own Foster in. Certainly used him early in the season, but he's been on the bench ever since Foster has come back.

 

I'm beginning to think Tate might warrant a spot in my line-up as one of my two flex spots going forward. Yesterday was not the first week he put up 100+ yds in a change of pace role. Sure, if you look at his weekly breakdown, he's also good for his share of 30 yard efforts, and I may sit him against more stout Ds, but given that we start 2 RBs, 3 WRs, and 2 Flex, that reaches deeply enough into the player pool that one often doesn't expect great things from both of your flex players.

 

Thoughts?

[coordi88]

He might not be built to take it like foster, but he has certainly been the more explosive back this season. I also don't know about his pass catching, where foster has proven his ability there as well. Cleveland looks like they've thrown in the towel, so I wouldn't be expecting 300 yards a game between the two of them every week... But he is going to see touches, and he has proven he will make the most of those touches.

 

He did have that redzone fumble, but they still give him the ball.

[detlef]

FWIW, over the last 4 weeks, he's #23 among RBs in my league that gives .5 PPR and 1 for 10 yds either rushing or receiving. He's also #43 among combined RB/WRs. (He's #19 and 37 respectively for the season when you include the games where he was the featured back, something that obviously doesn't reflect his current role.)

 

In other words, worthy of a starting role in a 2 RB/2WR.1 Flex league with standard scoring.

[nelsosi]

I think he's in the perfect role right now -- give him 10ish power touches a game to keep Foster fresh. There's no question that Foster is the more complete back -- he's better in pass protection, and has much better hands (Tate drops a lot of passes -- saw him drop an easy swing pass that Foster would have taken for a big gain yesterday).

[nelsosi]

Oh, and one other thing -- when I watch Tate, it makes me think of a better version of Shonn Greene in terms of style and skill set

[Caveman_Nick]

I think he's in the perfect role right now -- give him 10ish power touches a game to keep Foster fresh. There's no question that Foster is the more complete back -- he's better in pass protection, and has much better hands (Tate drops a lot of passes -- saw him drop an easy swing pass that Foster would have taken for a big gain yesterday).

 

 

Tate is essentially a rookie playing in a COP role. I wouldn't judge him too quickly on pass protection or receiving ability. Both are a little less natural than just being a runner and should improve with playing time.

[Caveman_Nick]

He might not be built to take it like foster,

 

Tate: 5'11" 215

Foster: 6'1" 229

 

Tate is probably built a little more solidly than Foster. I imagine Foster is ever so slightly faster, though.

[Tripleshot]

I'm not buying into Tate's worthiness as a flex starter on a weekly basis. He put up some nice production two of the last three weeks, but look closer at those games. Ten points(standard non ppr league) against the Titans after getting ahead by a ton early. Seventeen points this week against a horrid Browns team after getting ahead early again. Last week, against a Jags team that the Texans should have handled easily but didn't, he only gets 5 carries and no catches. (Yes, I am bitter about that game as it was the only time I needed him as a bye week fillin but that doesn't affect my judgement for this thread's purposes.)

 

He needs the Texans to jump to a big early lead to guarantee enough touches to warrant starting him. Now look at the rest of the schedule: Bucs, Bye, Jags again(in Jacksonville), Falcons, Bengals, Panthers, Colts, and Titans. Outside of the Colts in week 16, and maybe the Titans again in week 17, I don't see any games that make me think he'll get enough work. If he busts some long runs on limited touches or somehow vultures a TD, sure, he might put up 7-12 points occasionally. However, I have to believe there are better, more reliable players to be starting every week at flex.

[nelsosi]

 

Seventeen points this week against a horrid Browns team after getting ahead early again.

I hear what you're saying, and I would never start him in anything but a really deep league. But he had 40 yards and a TD on the Texans first drive of the game. It wasn't just garbage time production yesterday -- he spelled Foster at various points during the game -- though it is very clear that Foster is the guy and this is no RBBC whatsoever. Edited November 7, 2011 by nelsosi

[detlef]

I'm not buying into Tate's worthiness as a flex starter on a weekly basis. He put up some nice production two of the last three weeks, but look closer at those games. Ten points(standard non ppr league) against the Titans after getting ahead by a ton early. Seventeen points this week against a horrid Browns team after getting ahead early again. Last week, against a Jags team that the Texans should have handled easily but didn't, he only gets 5 carries and no catches. (Yes, I am bitter about that game as it was the only time I needed him as a bye week fillin but that doesn't affect my judgement for this thread's purposes.)

 

He needs the Texans to jump to a big early lead to guarantee enough touches to warrant starting him. Now look at the rest of the schedule: Bucs, Bye, Jags again(in Jacksonville), Falcons, Bengals, Panthers, Colts, and Titans. Outside of the Colts in week 16, and maybe the Titans again in week 17, I don't see any games that make me think he'll get enough work. If he busts some long runs on limited touches or somehow vultures a TD, sure, he might put up 7-12 points occasionally. However, I have to believe there are better, more reliable players to be starting every week at flex.

The league I'm contemplating starting him in does have 2RB, 3WR, 2 Flex. Plus, it's skewed towards RBs because rushing gets you 1 for 10 yds and receiving gets you 1 for 20. So, despite the fact that it's only a 10 team league, even in a perfect week, the 70th overall producer at W/R is getting started. This week I'm on the verge of scoring the highest points of anyone in the league this year and I got 4.5 and 3.8 out of my two flex position players.

 

In other words, a bad week for Tate is about the same as a bad week for the caliber of player me or anyone else is trotting out at at least one of our flex positions.

 

On the other hand, a good week is very nice indeed. I certainly wouldn't tolerate the hot and cold nature of his scoring as a RB1 or RB2, but as a flex? Where I'm just hoping for more than 5 pts? What the hell?

 

More importantly, think about the kind of guys people are scrambling to the waiver wire to plug into a spot. What's his name from Cleveland, for instance. He was worth a start by virtue of being the next in line to get the carries for them. Hell, how about Helu? He was a freaking gold mine, and yet failed to match point production of Tate in his change of pace role unless you're in a PPR league.

[Balzac]

If I just so happen to make it to the SB in my 2 RB league, I plan on playing both Foster and Tate against the Colts in Week 16 - I'll do so happily and confidently as well.

[coordi88]

The league I'm contemplating starting him in does have 2RB, 3WR, 2 Flex. Plus, it's skewed towards RBs because rushing gets you 1 for 10 yds and receiving gets you 1 for 20. So, despite the fact that it's only a 10 team league, even in a perfect week, the 70th overall producer at W/R is getting started. This week I'm on the verge of scoring the highest points of anyone in the league this year and I got 4.5 and 3.8 out of my two flex position players.

 

In other words, a bad week for Tate is about the same as a bad week for the caliber of player me or anyone else is trotting out at at least one of our flex positions.

 

On the other hand, a good week is very nice indeed. I certainly wouldn't tolerate the hot and cold nature of his scoring as a RB1 or RB2, but as a flex? Where I'm just hoping for more than 5 pts? What the hell?

 

More importantly, think about the kind of guys people are scrambling to the waiver wire to plug into a spot. What's his name from Cleveland, for instance. He was worth a start by virtue of being the next in line to get the carries for them. Hell, how about Helu? He was a freaking gold mine, and yet failed to match point production of Tate in his change of pace role unless you're in a PPR league.

 

 

seems like a fairly unique league setup and scoring... so this thread is just horribly self serving? I dont get some of your points

[detlef]

seems like a fairly unique league setup and scoring... so this thread is just horribly self serving? I dont get some of your points

"Horribly self serving"? Have you followed some of the threads around here? Check the Jackie Battle thread and take a look at how many guys are starting him as an RB1 or RB2.

 

Once again, I'd bet in half the leagues out there 10 teams or larger, someone was starting the kid from Cleveland this week, simply because they're looking for a warm body who is carrying the rock.

 

Do you think those guys, the guys who are hoping that Delone Carter might be worth a start, might be well served to realize that a guy who has basically been relegated to "hand-cuff" role might be worth a look at?

 

So, yes, in the league I just referenced, it's basically a no-brainer. However, the data that I presented in the first post shows that he's putting up numbers worthy of at least a flex spot in decent size leagues, even if you have a more normal league. Note, that I used a .5PPR, standard system and where he stacks up to illustrate in the first post.

 

I didn't start this thread to see if it made sense for me to start him, because that much is pretty clear. I started it because, in discovering that, I realized that others might notice that he's worth a spot in theirs. Once again, the data is there. He's putting up top 23 numbers over the last 4 weeks, in a supporting role.

 

 

ETA: Just a quick question: How many back-up RBs on a team who's starting RB has been completely healthy and doing well have put up near top 20 numbers over the last month?

 

There have been times when two RBs from the same team were both worth starting FF roles. Carolina not too long ago, for instance.

Edited November 7, 2011 by detlef

[detlef]

Oh well, so much for that experiment. Just got offered Greg Jennings and Jonathan Stewart for him and Santonio Holmes. Had to take it. Maybe dude knows something I don't?

[cdrudge]

 

I plan on playing both Foster and Tate against the Colts in Week 16 - I'll do so happily and confidently as well.

Just hope that the Texans don't pull a Colts and rest their starters. Depending how the next few weeks play out, the Texans may have nothing to play for while Colts have a little (pride if they have any left, as well as the record books).

[Big John]

Just hope that the Texans don't pull a Colts and rest their starters. Depending how the next few weeks play out, the Texans may have nothing to play for while Colts have a little (pride if they have any left, as well as the record books).

With Schaub out, I see them fighting for a win every week here on.

[Tripleshot]

With Schaub out, I see them fighting for a win every week here on.

 

Which leaves me wondering, will they lean on both RBs even more now to take pressure off Leinart, or do they focus on Foster even more and give him 35+ touches per game(at the expense of Tate)?

[coordi88]

they have 3 conference games in jax right after the bye, indy and the titans.

 

so pretty much 2 free wins. with the titans 1-2, Houston basically has the division locked.

 

i see them leaning on tate more to keep foster healthy for the playoffs. leinart will be eased into the passing game and when andre comes back, they wont look to over use him in any way.

[detlef]

I honestly expect them to continue using both in much the same way they have. With the ratio, perhaps skewing towards Tate just a bit if they clinch a spot.

 

1) Nobody is running away with the AFC overall, so you have to think that a first round bye is still in play. That's something to play for.

2) Having two very capable backs who are both getting regular use is a nice insurance policy in the event that one gets hurt.

3) It would seem to me that the best way to keep both healthy and sharp is to give them both a decent, but not overwhelming work load.

4) The good news for us Foster owners is that they draw Indy in week 16. He could feasibly put up some pretty nice numbers even if they pull him at half time.