nelsosi Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 You forgot a pretty important one: #1 in wins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Overrated, you betcha, when you look at his career as a whole. Wow. Just wow. Well, at least that provides me with a context for you in football discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) #1 INTs, including some pretty juicy ones in the clutch late in his career. Sure he was amazing in his prime, then he hung around way too long and made everyone sick with his ego. Overrated, you betcha, when you look at his career as a whole. So he throws a pick in New Orleans late in the game on a play that should have been a run if Childress wasn't a flucking moran that got a 12 men in the huddle call on the previous play, and that makes everything the Bronco Billy and nelsosi point out irrelavant rendering Favre overrated? Got any other statistical masterpieces you wanna lay on us? Edited November 16, 2011 by Hugh 0ne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 So he throws a pick in New Orleans late in the game on a play that should have been a run if Childress wasn't a flucking moran that got a 12 men in the huddle call on the previous play, and that makes everything the Bronco Billy and nelsosi point out irrelavant rendering Favre overrated? Got any other statistical masterpieces you wanna lay on us? Favre threw some pretty poor picks. I'll freely admit that. But given his nature as a QB and the rest of the entire body of work he put forth, I can't find anyway to rationally classify the guy as overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsosi Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I hate Favre. I always have, even before the late career shenanigans. But I don't know how any reasonable person could look at his whole career and call him overrated. Polarizing? Yes, especially in his last few years. Overrated? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 So he throws a pick in New Orleans late in the game on a play that should have been a run if Childress wasn't a flucking moran that got a 12 men in the huddle call on the previous play, and that makes everything the Bronco Billy and nelsosi point out irrelavant rendering Favre overrated? Got any other statistical masterpieces you wanna lay on us? That was merely an encore...the one a couple years prior will obviously have a place in my heart forever. Nice touch blaming Childress for that one though, in actuality just a mind-bogglingly horrible decision and throw on Favre's part in that situation. Throwing across his body right into the hands of the defender, 3rd and 15 with the score tied...probably Childress assumed he had a savvy veteran QB out there managing the game. And really with everything on the line, put it in the hands of a future HOF QB, see if he can make something happen...long shot, sure, but I can at least trust him to throw it away if it's not there....right?!?! As much of an idiot as Childress was, I love the play call, it's not like he had a rookie Mark Sanchez type game manager out there. It's Bretty f'ing Favre. Oh, then he does what he does and makes a monumentally stupid decision in the most clutch of spots and we blame the coach. Can't have it both ways. You sign a guy like that precisely for that type of situation. Ending your team's season in the conference championship TWICE! on really just inexcusable INTs gets you major deductions in my book, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 That was merely an encore...the one a couple years prior will obviously have a place in my heart forever. Nice touch blaming Childress for that one though, in actuality just a mind-bogglingly horrible decision and throw on Favre's part in that situation. Throwing across his body right into the hands of the defender, 3rd and 15 with the score tied...probably Childress assumed he had a savvy veteran QB out there managing the game. And really with everything on the line, put it in the hands of a future HOF QB, see if he can make something happen...long shot, sure, but I can at least trust him to throw it away if it's not there....right?!?! As much of an idiot as Childress was, I love the play call, it's not like he had a rookie Mark Sanchez type game manager out there. It's Bretty f'ing Favre. Oh, then he does what he does and makes a monumentally stupid decision in the most clutch of spots and we blame the coach. Can't have it both ways. You sign a guy like that precisely for that type of situation. Ending your team's season in the conference championship TWICE! on really just inexcusable INTs gets you major deductions in my book, sorry. Hey dummkopf, they had Adrian Peterson in the backfield and could have had a short run and kicked a field goal, the entire reason they had to try and gain all those yards was because of the penalty which I put squarely on Childress' shoulders. Favre was a big reason for the Vikes going that far despite all the idiotic hurdles created by Childress. Favre threw a lot of picks, he was a total dooosh the way he handled the Green Bay and NY Jets situations, and was an utter attention wh*re with all his comebacks/retirements, etc. But to call him overrated is ludicrous, even by your extremely low standards. And I use the term dummkopf endearingly of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Hey dummkopf, they had Adrian Peterson in the backfield and could have had a short run and kicked a field goal, the entire reason they had to try and gain all those yards was because of the penalty which I put squarely on Childress' shoulders. Favre was a big reason for the Vikes going that far despite all the idiotic hurdles created by Childress. Favre threw a lot of picks, he was a total dooosh the way he handled the Green Bay and NY Jets situations, and was an utter attention wh*re with all his comebacks/retirements, etc. But to call him overrated is ludicrous, even by your extremely low standards. And I use the term dummkopf endearingly of course. I have to admit it was a throwaway line to tweak the Favre sack-swingers because they annoy me almost as much as the Vick sack-Waterman. I'm saying, definitely first-ballot hall of famer and one of the greats obviously, but we have to consider his whole career, and the way he ended it was as much of a disaster as anyone could imagine. If I'm at a company for 30 years earning all kinds of trips and bonuses and then I hit 55 and piss away 2 major accounts because I was unprepared for meetings or didn't anticipate a market change, I would expect to be judged as much by those monumental failures as by my successes. Therefore it is absurd to only look at all the stats in light of those last three seasons which were epic failures in so many ways. In my mind he was up in the stratosphere with Marino, Brady, Manning, Elway and now I have to put him just below those guys. Of course if Brady or Manning turn into two-bit lounge acts pimping themselves for one more whiff of glory in their early 40's to anyone who will have them, we can reassess them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsosi Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 In my mind he was up in the stratosphere with Marino, Brady, Manning, Elway and now I have to put him just below those guys..So how does that make him overrated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 So how does that make him overrated? Because in my estimation, many observers still have him up there with the best of the best. I said in my mind he WAS up there. I don't think he's there anymore, thus overrated to the extent that anyone still considers him quite at that level. I was commenting on the degree to which each player was overrated, Vick and Favre, not to which degree each had attained stats/glory/immortality on the NFL stage. Thus Favre is a billion times the player Vick is, but only slightly less overrated, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coordi88 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 favre's QB rating ranged from 70-107 the last 11 years of his career. 107 and 70 came the last two years of his career... i dunno where exactly people rank him on the all time list but if its higher than 7 he might be overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) Of course if Brady or Manning turn into two-bit lounge acts pimping themselves for one more whiff of glory in their early 40's to anyone who will have them, we can reassess them too. We? Would that be you and the mouse in your pocket? Declining performance for an NFL player continuing after turning 40 hardly diminishes what would be a stellar career for the first 15 years, +/-, that he starred, if you are asking me to evaluate his career. So you put a premium on players who quit early? Edited November 16, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirc Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) favre's QB rating ranged from 70-107 the last 11 years of his career. 107 and 70 came the last two years of his career... i dunno where exactly people rank him on the all time list but if its higher than 7 he might be overrated. I am curious. Who are the 7 you put ahead of Favre? Edited November 16, 2011 by lkirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 what a nasty trick...I click on a Vick thread and it's pretty much about Brett Favre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I never thought Vick would become an NFL QB because of his inability to play the position - you have to read defenses, you have to go through the progressions, check down, and sometimes you have to throw the ball away. Last year it looked like he was finally putting it all together and I freely admitted it looked like I might be wrong in my assessment. I would never have bet the bank on Vick being able to sustain that level of play, especially behind the PHI OL. In addition with the way Vick runs the ball he is constantly in danger of getting hurt - this year has been really bad because he risks getting hurt when he runs and he risks getting hurt trying to stay in the pocket behind that horrid line. So it looks like last year was one of those "catch lightning in a bottle" type years not an evolution in Vick's abilities. I would never argue that Favre wasn't a top notch QB ... clearly he has his fair share of INTs and some of them in the worse situations ... but with Farve if you wanted the gun slinger you had to take the good with the bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsosi Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Let's talk about where Tebow ranks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I never thought Vick would become an NFL QB because of his inability to play the position - you have to read defenses, you have to go through the progressions, check down, and sometimes you have to throw the ball away. Last year it looked like he was finally putting it all together and I freely admitted it looked like I might be wrong in my assessment. I would never have bet the bank on Vick being able to sustain that level of play, especially behind the PHI OL. In addition with the way Vick runs the ball he is constantly in danger of getting hurt - this year has been really bad because he risks getting hurt when he runs and he risks getting hurt trying to stay in the pocket behind that horrid line. So it looks like last year was one of those "catch lightning in a bottle" type years not an evolution in Vick's abilities. I would never argue that Favre wasn't a top notch QB ... clearly he has his fair share of INTs and some of them in the worse situations ... but with Farve if you wanted the gun slinger you had to take the good with the bad. I think now we know what Vick is and will ever be. He can no longer use his laziness in Atlanta as an excuse for why he never reached his full potential. He did his time in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, a motivator if ever there was one, which he himself stated in interviews. I don't think he's ever been smart enough to play the position and his legs were enough to dazzle people and distract them from that fact. As he gets older and those legs fail him, and the injuries pile up, exposing a weak arm and sh*t for brains, he'll be on the scrap heap of NLF QB history along with Grossman, Orton, Campbell, Romo, Favre, McNabb, and Leaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Now I'm really starting to second-guess my decision to start Favre this week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsosi Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Grossman, Orton, Campbell, Romo, Favre, McNabb, and Leaf.Now that's a random list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 what a nasty trick...I click on a Vick thread and it's pretty much about Brett Favre Well in all fairness that only happened after about a page and a half. Now its still kind of about Vick, its just evolved to into a dicsussion of who is more overrated, Vick or Favre. At least its not another ghey Jordey Nelson thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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