Manning in the 2nd round (12 team or more)

[muck]

Lame question.

 

It all depends on the lineup requirements and scoring rules.

 

You can't seriously say that a league that (for example) gives 6pts for ALL touchdowns, -2pts for INTs, and 1pt for 50yds passing, 20yds rushing or 20yds receiving (with no decimal points) that PM wouldn't be an easy first round pick?

 

I ask because that was the scoring system for a league I was in for seven years (quit this offseason to focus on other leagues) where we'd have at least one QB and at least one WR drafted in the first round every year...oftentimes by the teams that would end up in the SB.

 

Or, maybe in a league that only started QB / RB / WR / WR with more traditional scoring rules? You can't make blanket statements so emphatically. It's bad form.

[jzicc]

Lame question.

 

It all depends on the lineup requirements and scoring rules.

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for the insight ---- when a question is asked it is almost always talking about normal leagues ----

[loaf]

I'm with muck. I think the question is will PM make it out of the First round for you to even be considering him at 2.06 or 2.10? If the guy lasts till 2.10 in a 12 team league, I wanna join.

[The Holy Roller]

2 rounds in a 12-team league is 24 players...you mean to tell me that PM is not worthy of a top 24 pick? C'mon guys...

 

 

I've got the third pick in the HOT league this year. Just let ole Peyton slip back to me in the second round...

[muck]

thanks for the insight ---- when a question is asked it is almost always talking about normal leagues ----

 

 

FYI, "almost always" is different than "always".

 

If you want an answer to a secific question, then ask a specific question.

 

If you want an answer to a general question, don't be so emphatic with the absolutes.

[DKF]

I'm with muck. I think the question is will PM make it out of the First round for you to even be considering him at 2.06 or 2.10? If the guy lasts till 2.10 in a 12 team league, I wanna join.

 

Best info yet.

[jzicc]

FYI, "almost always" is different than "always".

 

If you want an answer to a secific question, then ask a specific question.

 

If you want an answer to a general question, don't be so emphatic with the absolutes.

 

 

 

Understood- but my retort would be the converse, assume it's a standard performance league unless stated otherwise. And by standard, I feel that 90% of the leagues are close to 4 pt td for qb, 6 pt for everyone else, and with passing yards worth 1/2 of other yards. ---- but then again I don't have enough posts to be considered a non-idiot...

[Yukon Cornelius]

---- but then again I don't have enough posts to be considered a non-idiot...

 

not a chance now

[jzicc]

not a chance now

 

saw that one coming--- nothing like teeing it up for you....

[BillyBalata]

And by standard, I feel that 90% of the leagues are close to 4 pt td for qb, 6 pt for everyone else,

 

 

 

I'm in 6 leagues....only one awards QBs 4 pts, all other leagues everyone gets 6 pts for tds.

[jzicc]

I'm in 6 leagues....only one awards QBs 4 pts, all other leagues everyone gets 6 pts for tds.

 

where's the smiley waving the white flag when you need it ...

[Big John]

where's the smiley waving the white flag when you need it ...

 

This:

[Jedi]

This:

 

[msaint]

not bad but Kevin Jones rarely makes it out of round 2

 

Really? In every ESPN mock I've done, KJones has, without fail, gone between 3.02 and 3.05, after guys like Julius, sometimes Droughns/Chester (when they've gone too early), and especially the overrated Reggie Bush.

 

Plax as a #1 is a little scary

 

Agree...if you take Peyton in Rd.2, a guy like Plax as your #1 WR is exactly who you're looking at -- him or an Andre Johnson, DJax, Housh-type WR. Not ideal #1s, no, but that's the price when you take Peyton early. I guess you just have to decide if the value difference between Peyton in the 2nd and, say, Carson in the 4th (or, moving down a tier, a QB like McNabb, Eli, Bulger in the 5th/6th) is greater than the value difference between a Smith, Chad, TO, Holt, Moss, Fitz-type (likely 100 catches/1,400yds/10-12TDs) in the 2nd and a Plax-type (75/ 1,100-1,200/8TDs)in the 4th. Usually just a gut call at the draft.

 

I've never drafted Peyton (have traded for him) or any QB before the 4th, so I can't speak from experience, but in 2004 I bet his owner didn't care that a guy like Rod Smith was his #1 WR, as the points Peyton put up more than made up for any he lost at #1 WR. And every year some of the #1 WR types don't come through to justify their draft status (e.g. R.Moss last year), while it's easier to find sleeper WR studs (e.g. S.Moss/Galloway) in later rounds. I dunno. QB killed me last year (I played Russian roulette between Bulger/Plummer) as it seems to every year -- hey, maybe this "never draft a QB early" theory of mine is downright idiotic? -- so this year I might snag Peyton in round 2 if he's there, just for some atypical stability at the position and roll the dice with my #2 RB/#1 WR.

 

Might all just be totally common sense what I've just written, but my 2¢...

Edited July 29, 2006 by msaint

[jzicc]

Really? In every ESPN mock I've done, KJones has, without fail, gone between 3.02 and 3.05, after guys like Julius, sometimes Droughns/Chester (when they've gone too early), and especially the overrated Reggie Bush.

 

 

Antsports avg 12 team draft -- sorry for the formatting (but you get the idea)

1. Larry Johnson RB KCC 1.01.33 1.01 1.04 00.70 69

2. Shaun Alexander RB SEA 1.02.30 1.01 1.03 00.63 69

3. LaDainian Tomlinson RB SDC 1.02.38 1.01 1.03 00.71 69

4. Clinton Portis RB WAS 1.04.66 1.04 1.08 00.78 65

5. Tiki Barber RB NYG 1.04.93 1.04 1.07 00.90 68

6. Steven Jackson RB STL 1.07.39 1.04 1.11 01.71 69

7. Edgerrin James RB ARI 1.07.56 1.04 2.01 01.62 68

8. LaMont Jordan RB OAK 1.08.13 1.05 1.12 01.98 69

9. Ronnie Brown RB MIA 1.08.81 1.04 1.12 01.63 69

10. Rudi Johnson RB CIN 1.11.30 1.07 2.10 02.70 69

11. Carnell Williams RB TBB 1.12.13 1.05 2.08 02.63 67

12. Brian Westbrook RB PHI 2.01.56 1.10 2.07 02.27 68

13. Domanick Davis RB HOU 2.02.59 1.06 2.11 03.62 63

14. Willis McGahee RB BUF 2.05.98 1.12 3.07 03.92 64

15. Kevin Jones RB DET 2.10.24 2.01 3.09 04.66 66

16. Julius Jones RB DAL 2.11.75 2.03 3.12 04.73 65

17. Willie Parker RB PIT 3.02.63 2.04 4.06 05.12 64

18. Jamal Lewis RB BAL 3.06.99 2.03 5.05 05.55 67

19. Reuben Droughns RB CLE 3.07.04 2.08 4.12 05.46 68

20. Chester Taylor RB MIN 3.08.40 2.09 5.02 04.74 68

 

 

 

 

good post by the way

[ghengis_chan]

Agree...if you take Peyton in Rd.2, a guy like Plax as your #1 WR is exactly who you're looking at -- him or an Andre Johnson, DJax, Housh-type WR. Not ideal #1s, no, but that's the price when you take Peyton early. I guess you just have to decide if the value difference between Peyton in the 2nd and, say, Carson in the 4th (or, moving down a tier, a QB like McNabb, Eli, Bulger in the 5th/6th) is greater than the value difference between a Smith, Chad, TO, Holt, Moss, Fitz-type (likely 100 catches/1,400yds/10-12TDs) in the 2nd and a Plax-type (75/ 1,100-1,200/8TDs)in the 4th. Usually just a gut call at the draft.

 

I agree with this exactly.... You really have to compare values and differences between players of the same position..I use "X" values, which everyone knows about.... I realize that if PM has another 2004, then you would look like a genius...but the bottom line is Palmer and Brady both either outperformed PM last year or the numbers were negligible to the point you have to compare the value gained at other positions. The top 3 WR's value vs Plax if he is your #1 WR. vs say the numbers that any of the other 10 or 12 QB's that you can draft in later rounds as compared to their difference in value relative to PM. That's where you will find your logical answer. This can be debated all the way up to the opening game and still not have a right or wrong answer. Just like everything in life when it comes to choices, it just comes down to personal preferences. Great topic for debate...Gotta love it !!!!!

[msaint]

Antsports avg 12 team draft -- sorry for the formatting (but you get the idea)

1. Larry Johnson RB KCC 1.01.33 1.01 1.04 00.70 69

2. Shaun Alexander RB SEA 1.02.30 1.01 1.03 00.63 69

3. LaDainian Tomlinson RB SDC 1.02.38 1.01 1.03 00.71 69

4. Clinton Portis RB WAS 1.04.66 1.04 1.08 00.78 65

5. Tiki Barber RB NYG 1.04.93 1.04 1.07 00.90 68

6. Steven Jackson RB STL 1.07.39 1.04 1.11 01.71 69

7. Edgerrin James RB ARI 1.07.56 1.04 2.01 01.62 68

8. LaMont Jordan RB OAK 1.08.13 1.05 1.12 01.98 69

9. Ronnie Brown RB MIA 1.08.81 1.04 1.12 01.63 69

10. Rudi Johnson RB CIN 1.11.30 1.07 2.10 02.70 69

11. Carnell Williams RB TBB 1.12.13 1.05 2.08 02.63 67

12. Brian Westbrook RB PHI 2.01.56 1.10 2.07 02.27 68

13. Domanick Davis RB HOU 2.02.59 1.06 2.11 03.62 63

14. Willis McGahee RB BUF 2.05.98 1.12 3.07 03.92 64

15. Kevin Jones RB DET 2.10.24 2.01 3.09 04.66 66

16. Julius Jones RB DAL 2.11.75 2.03 3.12 04.73 65

17. Willie Parker RB PIT 3.02.63 2.04 4.06 05.12 64

18. Jamal Lewis RB BAL 3.06.99 2.03 5.05 05.55 67

19. Reuben Droughns RB CLE 3.07.04 2.08 4.12 05.46 68

20. Chester Taylor RB MIN 3.08.40 2.09 5.02 04.74 68

good post by the way

 

 

i'm only going by the espn mocks i've done, and he's usually taken after guys like julius, willie (because of strong pitt OL, mostly, and no bettis), jamal, bush, and sometimes even droughns and chester. i'm not saying it's right. i'd probably take kjones as my #2 RB long before those guys and be very happy. the bush hype amazes me: kjones is the clear starter, non RBBC RB in an allegedly improved offensive system that'll utilize his speed/burst more than past years, and use him out of the backfield more, and bush, with all his ?'s, is being taken ahead of jones. i hope this happens in my local league!