bushwacked Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 This will be the fourth team that sees Duckett as having short yardage ability. (Atlanta, Washington, Detroit, Seattle) He's never been a great short yardage player. He's more Ron Dayne than anybody else. I read somewhere that Duckett was something like 9 out of 10 in 3rd and/or 4th and short with Detroit's O-line. Maurice Morris and SA were probably close to 25%. Unless Leanord Weaver takes over that short yardage role, it will be between Duckett and Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbucklers Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Houston - (Dayne, Green, Walker, C. Taylor, Drafted rookie) RBBC? I think you have to add Chris Brown into this discussion, which does little to clear it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egret Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I read somewhere that Duckett was something like 9 out of 10 in 3rd and/or 4th and short with Detroit's O-line. Maurice Morris and SA were probably close to 25%. Unless Leanord Weaver takes over that short yardage role, it will be between Duckett and Jones. I try to block out Lions games. You're probably right. It's probably part of living near East Lansing too that I also see Duckett as more of a starting RB instead of a short-yardage guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Any news on Kevin Jones? Has he signed anywhere? I cant believe his career is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egret Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Any news on Kevin Jones? Has he signed anywhere? I cant believe his career is over. I think he visited Philly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 This will be the fourth team that sees Duckett as having short yardage ability. (Atlanta, Washington, Detroit, Seattle) He's never been a great short yardage player. He's more Ron Dayne than anybody else. JJ has been notoriously bad at scoring from inside the 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 That would have put him as the 6th best rusher in the NFL last year... Was the fact that most of the starting RB's got hurt an anamoly or a trend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Was the fact that most of the starting RB's got hurt an anamoly or a trend? An exaggeration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Was the fact that most of the starting RB's got hurt an anamoly or a trend? 1300 yds rushing would have been 8th best in the NFL in '06, 10th best in the NFL in '05, and 9th best in the NFL in '04. While it may be skewed high by a couple of spots, that's hardly an anomoly. An exaggeration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Meh....I knew a lot of starting RBs got hurt but didn't think that over 1/2 missed substantial time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I don't know the exact numbers but they weren't pretty! So almost half the runners that stay healthy get to about 1300 yards? If Jones can stay healthy, that number should be attainable in this offense. Whether or not I think he will be hugely successful is really not the point. The point is that the Seahawks brought him in to see if he can put up those types of numbers, not to see if he can be 1/3 of a rushing game. I'm not sure what we are using as the definition of a RBBC. If Jones has 1000/5 and Duckett has 300/8, is that an RBBC? Between the 20's, Duckett and Morris will be nothing more than backups for the most part. That just isn't what I think of when I think RBBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) So almost half the runners that stay healthy get to about 1300 yards? that's hardly an anomoly. It never fails to amaze me how much FFers misunderstand football. It's like people flippantly figuring that their #1 RB will get 25 carries a game all year. RBs don't regularly hit 1300 yds rushing every year. It takes an elite RB and/or a special year to crack that mark. The number of RBs who have hit 1300 yds rushing since 1990: '07 5 '06 7 '05 9 '04 8 '03 12 '02 10 '01 7 '00 10 '99 6 '98 6 '97 5 '96 6 '95 5 '94 4 '93 3 '92 4 '91 3 '90 1 Rushing numbers in the NFL hit an apogee from '00 to '03 and appear to be coming back to the pack over the past few years. In fact, FF owners ought to understand that they should be expecting fewer cumulative rushing yds from the top 10 RBs each year. It's the nature of the game and the way it is played, as well as rule changes each year that impact those numbers. My theory is that in the late 90s DCs started copying the lighter, faster Ds. That in turn allowed Os to use their larger O lines to take advantage of attacking Ds with the run straight ahead, whereas teams that tried to attack the edges and use misdirection played right into the faster Ds' hands and went into their strengths. Now we're seeing the end of the days of the 220 lb LB, and LBs are getting larger but not quite as fast. That clogs the middle of the field more, where the bigger, stronger RBs make their bones - between the tackles. Then you add the rule changes that assist the passing O along with the rage for RBBC by a lot of teams and we're going to get a return to where 6 or less RBs each year hit 1300 yds rushing. It's always cyclical in football. Os take what the Ds & the rules give them to move the football. Ds adapt to take away what the Os are trying to exploit. Ocassionally rules are changed for player safety or to increase scoring for more wide spread fan appeal. Players may get bigger, faster, & stronger. But overall, the game hasn't changed that much since Sid Gillman pioneered the last game changing evolution & revolutionized the passing game in the very early 60s. So, in short - no, I do not consider Julius Jones to be a legit #1 RB in the NFL. I expect he'll always have to share a significant portion of the load. So I certainly don't consider him to be the elite RB he'd have to be to be expected to gain 1300 yds rushing in '08. Edited March 26, 2008 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) put something on it? The game hasn't changed much since the early 60's!?!?!? Wow. That is kind of a hard one to swallow. Look at the guys that were close last year. We were just a healthy game or two away from that number reaching double digits, which would have made it well over half of all healthy running backs. It isn't like 1300 yds is some mythical number. If you stay healthy, it isn't that difficult. Some very average RB's have gotten there. I still don't understand why people like you insist on starting your posts with insults. I think you try to in some way convince people that you know what you are talking about by putting other people down. I might be missing something, but it really doesn't come off like you know what you're talking about. It makes you come off as arrogant and juvenile. Grow up dude. Edited March 26, 2008 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 The point is that the Seahawks brought him in to see if he can put up those types of numbers, I don't see it like that at all. I think Duckett and Jones were brought in to see if they can contribute to the running game in the short term in an attempt to make a somewhat effective compliment the passing attack. Anything more than grooming a younger guy in the next year or two would be an absolute bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Anything more than grooming a younger guy in the next year or two would be an absolute bonus. This is the way it looks through my non-homer goggles If they draft an RB in the 2nd or 3rd round area, they should still land one with talent. Having a talented rookie and Jones and Duckett sounds like a great plan for the future. And a nice phat RBBC. Kiss Alexander and Morris goodbye. It's hard not to be impressed with the off-season moves in SEA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) It isn't like 1300 yds is some mythical number. If you stay healthy, it isn't that difficult. Apparently 18 years of evidence means nothing to you. I might be missing something I think you nailed it here. Edited March 26, 2008 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I think you nailed it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Apparently 18 years of evidence means nothing to you.I think you nailed it here. yeah, thats pretty much what I thought you would come up with. Lemme guess, no wager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) yeah, thats pretty much what I thought you would come up with. Lemme guess, no wager? Okay, I've presented evidence that Julius Jones is a less effective RB than Tatum Bell (who also hasn't come close to rushing for 1300 yds in a season in his career). I've presented evidence that a RB hitting 1300 yds is not the simple and easy to reach event that you've portrayed it to be. Now I'm going to present this: SEA has progressively gotten less out of their rushing game in the past 3 years to the point where they don't run effectively compared to the majority of other NFL teams. In 2005, they rushed for 2457 yds, 3rd best in the NFL. In 2006 they rushed for 1923 yds, 14th best in the NFL. In 2007 they rushed for 1614 yds, 20th best in the NFL. It appears that SEA is headed the wrong way when it comes to running the football. All you've presented as evidence that Jones can reach 1300 yds rushing is that he is now a Seahawk and therefore will substantially outperform his previous output, that because Jones joined SEA that the team will suddenly turn around and become a rushing team where Jones can gain 1300 yds rushing, and that if Jones does hit 1300 yds rushing will most likely be the 8th best RB in the NFL next season or better, give or take a slot or 2. Can you provide any evidence to back up your assertion other than your blatantly obvious SEA homer glasses? How is he going to change his performance and SEA's performance as a team to do what a hell of a lot more (and better) RBs couldn't do in a season over a myriad of years? Clue us in - you claim I'm out of touch and that you know much better. Let's hear it. Edited March 26, 2008 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 That's what I thought. Hmmmmm. No wager?? Tough talk until somebody takes you to task on it. 1. The only year that Jones was "the man" in big D, he would have cleared 1300 easily had he not been injured. 2. Wahle will help tremendously 3. This offense is PERFECT for a quick hitting back like Jones. The opposing defenses play against the pass so hard that if we had a guy that could kind of burst through that first line, he will have a straight line to the second level. 4. This is Holmgren's last season. This offense WILL be fantastic. Jones may not be a superstar, but is a HUGE step up from the Shaun of the last few years and Mo, well, ever. 5. Duckett and Mo are not between the 20's runners. Jones will get as many carries as he can handle. 6. The wide receiver & TE position in Seattle isn't deep enough to warrant passing the ball as often as they tried to last year. 50 bucks sound 'bout right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 50 bucks sound 'bout right? I'll give you one chance to rethink or back out of this gracefully - and I won't say another word about it. If you respond and still want to post that $50, I'll accept the wager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I'll give you one chance to rethink or back out of this gracefully - and I won't say another word about it. If you respond and still want to post that $50, I'll accept the wager. Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Done. Jones needs to get to at least 1300 yds rushing in the regular season in 2008 for you to collect. Otherwise I collect. Who are we sending the $$$ to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Having seen damn near every Cowboys game for JJ's whole career, I am of the opinion that the 1300yd plateau in question will probably not be accomplished by him. He's very shifty, yes, and that's a good MO to have for a back his size, but he drops to the ground very quick upon contact. He has no power. 1300 yds will only be attainable for him if he were to get 300+ carries, which most likely won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSULions Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Jones needs to get to at least 1300 yds rushing in the regular season in 2008 for you to collect. Otherwise I collect. Who are we sending the $$$ to? I was reading this thread and I thought when you mentioned Jones, it was Felix Jones, who might actually run for 1,300 yards this season with the Seahawks as I had seen him mentioned several times as the potential pick for the Seahawks at #25. Then, I read through the rest of this an I realized you were talking about Julius Jones!! JJ is like a heavier version of DeShaun Foster, who despite glimpses of talent, he was nothing more than a tease.... JJ as a decent back to start in a pinch or provide RB depth for the Seahawks. So the question now... is does your wager include any RB named Jones on the Seahawks roster (Julius or Felix) or just JJ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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