They are doing it for us

[Bronco Billy]

With regard to the preseason games. It costs just as much money to open up that stadium and to plan those games as it does a regular season game, they aren't "cheaper" to put on than a regualr season game. Besides, the pre-season games are 60% empty (at least here in ATL) don't you think if they thought that by lowering the price of a ticket by 20 bucks that they would sell out 90% of the stadium that they would do so? They'd make more money. The fact is that they know that even by lowering the price they aren't going to sell enough tickets to cover their costs of that game.

 

I disagree. Preseason games are often part of a season ticket package, so the fans in the seats at those games - especially in areas where attendance is as low as you say - are most likely tickets already sold as part of a season ticket package and being attended by those purchasers or by people to whom those pre-purchased tickets were given.

 

Since the game is already going on and all costs have been accounted for, it does not make sense to refuse to attempt to sell the remaining seats at a discounted price. An empty seat does not generate any revenue whatsoever, whereas a seat purchased at a discounted rate generates at least the discounted price and possibly more in concessions and other sales.

 

That said, there is also a matter of owners marketing an inferior product at the equivalent price of the optimum product, which in inherently bad business and helps to keep fans away from preseason games, as well as creating ill will amongst the overall fan base, and particularly the season ticket purchasers who do not have a choice in whether they want to opt out of preseason prices for a lesser product (if they want to keep their season ticket, that is).

 

Tell me, would you buy a 2005 used Camaro for the same price as a 2011 new Camaro? After all, it is still a Camaro, even though the used 2005 version is not near the same quality of product as the new 2011 version. But that's what the owners are selling when they choose to price preseason games at regular season prices. That's simply wrong, and it's bad business in that it pisses some of your best customers off.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[delusions of grandeur]

With regard to the preseason games. It costs just as much money to open up that stadium and to plan those games as it does a regular season game, they aren't "cheaper" to put on than a regualr season game. Besides, the pre-season games are 60% empty (at least here in ATL) don't you think if they thought that by lowering the price of a ticket by 20 bucks that they would sell out 90% of the stadium that they would do so? They'd make more money. The fact is that they know that even by lowering the price they aren't going to sell enough tickets to cover their costs of that game.

 

I think we've been over this in another thread, and even Bronco Billy agrees that it would be fair to lower preseason prices for the sake of the fan who supports the game enough to go see them... So it's kind of ironic to argue in favor of "what costs the market can bear" when it's clear the consumers will not bear full-price for an inferior product.

 

But that's kind of beside my point, which is to call a spade a spade. Don't blow smoke up my butt and tell me it's roses, because they know good and well that that they'll take every penny we're willing to give, regardless of the bottom-line... If they're doing this to help that bottom-line, then that's all well and fine, but to tell me they need to do this so that they don't have to pass additional costs on to ME is very disengenuous.

 

I just can't understand why they even continue on trying to sell us on who is "right" in this lockout over $9 billion of our dollars. For people who rely so heavily on our support, they need to be hammering out a deal that works for everyone rather than convincing people that the fight over our dollars is somehow a good thing for us... Screw your bottom-line, because my generosity and patience are wearing thin with the NFL, and that's what you should be concerned about when it comes to the consumer.

[Ursa Majoris]

That's one way to look at it. But, not what Goodell was talking about, nor what the article was talking about. The article was about rising ticket prices and Goodell's response was in regard to ticket prices.

 

Goodell has stated that they can't keep shifting the burden onto the fan, with higher ticket prices, which apparently they have not done. Ticket prices have increased by 300% salaries by 532%, they have not shifted the burden to the fan, proportionally, and will strive to continue not to do so.

 

So, what is inaccurate about Goodell's statement? .

Not inaccurate, just the usual sins of omission. Would you care to give us the 1990 vs 2011 data on concession costs? Or parking? Or how much the NFL is getting out of the networks?

[Brentastic]

Average Player Salary 1990 - $356,000

Average Player Salary 2009 - $1,896,000

Salaries have increased by 500%

 

Average Ticket Price 1991 - $25

Average Ticket Price 2010 - $76.47

Tickets have increased by 300%

Fixed:

 

Salaries have increased by 432%

Tickets have increased by 205%

[bushwacked]

Average Player Salary 1990 - $356,000

Average Player Salary 2009 - $1,896,000

Salaries have increased by 500%

 

Average Ticket Price 1991 - $25

Average Ticket Price 2010 - $76.47

Tickets have increased by 300%

 

Fixed:

 

Salaries have increased by 432%

Tickets have increased by 205%

 

[lennykravitz2004]

 

He's stipulating you're counting the original dollars as part of the increase. 76.47-25=51.47 i.e. the "true" increase. 51.47 / 25 = 2.0588, or 206% (rounded). Since the original 25 is there regardless, it's not actually a part of the increase.

[detlef]

He's stipulating you're counting the original dollars as part of the increase. 76.47-25=51.47 i.e. the "true" increase. 51.47 / 25 = 2.0588, or 206% (rounded). Since the original 25 is there regardless, it's not actually a part of the increase.

In other words, Brent is adding it up the right way. Sure, 76 is about 3x higher than 25, but it's not a 300% increase over 25

[Bronco Billy]

Not inaccurate, just the usual sins of omission. Would you care to give us the 1990 vs 2011 data on concession costs? Or parking? Or how much the NFL is getting out of the networks?

 

Why are you asking him to do the legwork if you think this will help you prove a contrary point? You ought to be doing it.

[rajncajn]

That's one way to look at it. But, not what Goodell was talking about, nor what the article was talking about. The article was about rising ticket prices and Goodell's response was in regard to ticket prices.

 

Goodell has stated that they can't keep shifting the burden onto the fan, with higher ticket prices, which apparently they have not done. Ticket prices have increased by 300% salaries by 532%, they have not shifted the burden to the fan, proportionally, and will strive to continue not to do so.

 

So, what is inaccurate about Goodell's statement? .

Let's be real here. Ticket prices have not raised all that much because the NFL has found other ways to gouge the fans such as higher ticket & merchandising prices. And if you believe that the NFL will not raise ticket prices more if they get what they want in the CBA negotiations then you're just being naive.

[Ursa Majoris]

Why are you asking him to do the legwork if you think this will help you prove a contrary point? You ought to be doing it.

Nope, because I was just pointing out that the information posted was selective. Salaries need to be balanced against all other income, not just ticket prices.

[Clubfoothead]

The NFL wants me to think of it as just another business? IMHO that isn't what made it successful in the first place.

[bushwacked]

Face it though, the SINGLE LARGEST COST TO THE NFL OWNERS IS THE PLAYERS SALARIES AND BENEFITS.

 

 

A mouse in my pocket also told me those players are their biggest commodity.

 

And your % stuff that Brentastic corrected was disingenuous anyway.

 

The price of carrots has tripled while the players salaries have quintupled. And 80% of automobile drivers involved in a fatal car accident ate carrots within the previous two weeks.

 

Edited June 12, 2011 by bushwacked

[SEC=UGA]

I guess I should have simply stated that ticket prices have increased three fold and salaries increased 5 fold, my bad. Either way, the price of tickets has not increased at the same rate as have players salaries.

 

Also, I am not arguing that ticket revenue is the only source of funding that the NFL has. Rather, I am stating that you guys arguing that what Goodell said is inaccurate is, well, inaccurate. The league has looked towards other means of increasing revenue outside of increasing ticket prices. They have looked toward increasing revenue through media contracts, granting licensing rights, and by finding advertisers. They have taken a number of steps to not pass on all of the increased operating costs to the fans. They have renamed stadiums, they have licensed out their team names to companies including Rebok, crappy shoes from spammers, Under Armor, etc... who, incidentally, are the ones that are charging you $90 for an "Officially Licensed" NFL Jersey (and incidentally you guys are the dumbasses willing to pay $90 for a jersey, no one is forcing you at gunpoint.)

 

Not once did I indicate that ticket prices would not continue to increase if the contract the NFL owners want is agreed to, I can tell you, unequivocally, that the will most certainly continue to increase. Prices for concessions and licensed products will continue to increase as well. But, the NFL will do all they can to keep the increases to a reasonable level that is palatable to the fan because too hefty of increases will at a point deteriorate their bottom line.

 

So call it what you will, 200% vs. 400%, or 3X vs. 5X, there is still a lesser increase, proportionally, on ticket prices than their is on the average NFL salary. Making what Goodell said with regard to ticket prices accurate.

[SEC=UGA]

A mouse in my pocket also told me those players are their biggest commodity.

 

And your % stuff that Brentastic corrected was disingenuous anyway.

 

The price of carrots has tripled while the players salaries have quintupled. And 80% of automobile drivers involved in a fatal car accident ate carrots within the previous two weeks.

 

 

Poor mouse, little does he know of the cruel fate that will befall him once you get into the confines of your bedroom.

 

Players are not the biggest commodity. The franchise is the biggest commodity. Did Browns fans follow their team and its players to Baltimore? Did Baltimore fans follow the players and their ex-team to Indianapolis? Hell, no. Were Green Bay fans following Favre and rooting for him during his stints at NY or Minnesota? How bout Falcons fans, did you want Deion to succeed in Dallas or San Fran?

 

Much as with college football, people are more fans of their teams, not the individual players. Am I going to stop pulling for UGA after Herschel, Lars, Hearst, TD, Knowshon, AJ, Stafford, Masaquah, leave... hell no, I'm going to follow the team. If you had every player in the league leave today and your team draft entirely new players, you would still have players to watch. Who isn't excited that their team got Julio Jones, AJ Green, Nick Fairley, Von Miller, Marcell Dareus, Patrick Peterson, etc... These are your future stars. NFL players are replaceable, franchises are not. Players come and go, some are heralded and remembered, Jack Lambert, Joe Green, Montana, Richard Dent, etc... but when they retire you don't stop watching your team, do you?

Edited June 13, 2011 by SEC=UGA

[Ursa Majoris]

I guess I should have simply stated that ticket prices have increased three fold and salaries increased 5 fold, my bad. Either way, the price of tickets has not increased at the same rate as have players salaries.

 

Also, I am not arguing that ticket revenue is the only source of funding that the NFL has. Rather, I am stating that you guys arguing that what Goodell said is inaccurate is, well, inaccurate. The league has looked towards other means of increasing revenue outside of increasing ticket prices. They have looked toward increasing revenue through media contracts, granting licensing rights, and by finding advertisers. They have taken a number of steps to not pass on all of the increased operating costs to the fans. They have renamed stadiums, they have licensed out their team names to companies including Rebok, crappy shoes from spammers, Under Armor, etc... who, incidentally, are the ones that are charging you $90 for an "Officially Licensed" NFL Jersey (and incidentally you guys are the dumbasses willing to pay $90 for a jersey, no one is forcing you at gunpoint.)

 

Not once did I indicate that ticket prices would not continue to increase if the contract the NFL owners want is agreed to, I can tell you, unequivocally, that the will most certainly continue to increase. Prices for concessions and licensed products will continue to increase as well. But, the NFL will do all they can to keep the increases to a reasonable level that is palatable to the fan because too hefty of increases will at a point deteriorate their bottom line.

 

So call it what you will, 200% vs. 400%, or 3X vs. 5X, there is still a lesser increase, proportionally, on ticket prices than their is on the average NFL salary. Making what Goodell said with regard to ticket prices accurate.

Fine but Goodell was still being disingenuous. It is normal business practice to open new revenue streams and increase old ones in order to keep prices competitive. In any business, labor is but one of the costs. In most, the employers have the ability to keep the lid on wages by cutting staff, not giving raises, reorganizing, automation, etc, etc.

 

But this isn't any business, this is unique because the NFL itself has chosen to make it unique. Their deliberately anti-competitive policies have them at a disadvantage when it comes to dealing with labor.

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Poor mouse, little does he know of the cruel fate that will befall him once you get into the confines of your bedroom.

 

Players are not the biggest commodity. The franchise is the biggest commodity. Did Browns fans follow their team and its players to Baltimore? Did Baltimore fans follow the players and their ex-team to Indianapolis? Hell, no. Were Green Bay fans following Favre and rooting for him during his stints at NY or Minnesota? How bout Falcons fans, did you want Deion to succeed in Dallas or San Fran?

 

Much as with college football, people are more fans of their teams, not the individual players. Am I going to stop pulling for UGA after Herschel, Lars, Hearst, TD, Knowshon, AJ, Stafford, Masaquah, leave... hell no, I'm going to follow the team. If you had every player in the league leave today and your team draft entirely new players, you would still have players to watch. Who isn't excited that their team got Julio Jones, AJ Green, Nick Fairley, Von Miller, Marcell Dareus, Patrick Peterson, etc... These are your future stars. NFL players are replaceable, franchises are not. Players come and go, some are heralded and remembered, Jack Lambert, Joe Green, Montana, Richard Dent, etc... but when they retire you don't stop watching your team, do you?

 

 

Me, I cheer for players, but I am a fan of the laundry. It is the laundry, the team name, the stadium, and history I am tied to through remembrance. Players donning the laundry of my team become affiliated with that common history, and for the most part it is in the context of that history which I now temporarily find that fungible product relevant.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Ditkaless Wonders

[kingfish247]

But this isn't any business, this is unique because the NFL itself has chosen to make it unique. Their deliberately anti-competitive policies have them at a disadvantage when it comes to dealing with labor.

The NFL economy in 40 words or less.

[Bronco Billy]

Let's be real here. Ticket prices have not raised all that much because the NFL has found other ways to gouge the fans such as higher ticket & merchandising prices.

 

[rajncajn]

Posting from your Blackberry 101. You know what I meant.