bpwallace49 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Who made that statement? Or do you consider the quick slants that Brady throws regularly to Welker to be non-NFL throws? I guess Rodgers sucks as a pro QB because he throws screen passes and waggles when other teams try to rattle him with blitzes? If Tebow can't play, fine. But at least give him a fighting chance by running plays that can take the heat off the pass rushes that MIA and DET sent after him. To have him being forced to stand in the pocket while his recievers are running 15 and 20 yd patterns isn't telling anyone anything about the kid, other than he can take a beating. How many short crossing routes did Tebow complete yesterday? Based on watching most of the game, that was MOST of his completions. Brady also has the capability to progress through reads to find mismatches, and can read defenses to recognize those mismatches PRESNAP. Tebow simply cant. Comparing Brady to Tebow in terms of offensive play calling . . . . wow, just wow. :shakeshead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I think you guys just need to be patient. You shoulda seen Eli those first 7 seasons, man he was terrible. Now look at him. Yeah look at him now. Mediocre. But he should be better by his 10th season. Everytime I see him play, his passes are either dump offs to a RB or a bomb. He might be able to make every pass on the field in a few more seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 consider that last year in 4 starts or whatever tebow actually looked halfway decent and somewhat promising. mcdumfluck used a first-rounder on him, so he at least had some idea in the back of his pointy little head how you might use him. I could see someone like shanahan designing potentially effective gameplans around his strengths, with designed rollouts, short passes, counter runs, etc. right now both tebow and the scheme look horribly lost -- tebow deserves a lot of the blame but not all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 consider that last year in 4 starts or whatever tebow actually looked halfway decent and somewhat promising. mcdumfluck used a first-rounder on him, so he at least had some idea in the back of his pointy little head how you might use him. I could see someone like shanahan designing potentially effective gameplans around his strengths, with designed rollouts, short passes, counter runs, etc. right now both tebow and the scheme look horribly lost -- tebow deserves a lot of the blame but not all of it. Az, exactly how many of "Mcdumfluck's" draft picks have panned out during his tenure in Denver? He was, is and continues to be a poor talent evaluator, so hanging your hat on "McDaniels drafted him in the first" may not be the best approach. In fact, it gives more weight to the argumnet that he was grossly OVERdrafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 How many short crossing routes did Tebow complete yesterday? Based on watching most of the game, that was MOST of his completions. Brady also has the capability to progress through reads to find mismatches, and can read defenses to recognize those mismatches PRESNAP. Tebow simply cant. Comparing Brady to Tebow in terms of offensive play calling . . . . wow, just wow. :shakeshead: You are correct. According to CBS Sportline full play by play, Tebow was 15 for 29 on passes referred to as "short". So it seemed as if they weren't asking him to stand back there and wait for long routes to develop all day long. Even if you include his 7 sacks, and assume those were all long routes that didn't have time to work, that means 29 of the 46 times he dropped back to pass, they were asking him to complete a short route. That's nearly 2/3s of their passing plays. Seems reasonable considering that you can hardly allow the D to get too comfy jumping the short routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Az, exactly how many of "Mcdumfluck's" draft picks have panned out during his tenure in Denver? He was, is and continues to be a poor talent evaluator, so hanging your hat on "McDaniels drafted him in the first" may not be the best approach. In fact, it gives more weight to the argumnet that he was grossly OVERdrafted. you completely missed my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 You are correct. According to CBS Sportline full play by play, Tebow was 15 for 29 on passes referred to as "short". So it seemed as if they weren't asking him to stand back there and wait for long routes to develop all day long. absolutely worthless and meaningless stat. how many of those "short" passes were dumpoffs after he read coverage on a downfield route? how many 3 step drops were there? I am guessing that once again you didn't actually watch the game, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 you completely missed my point. If your point was that the Broncos should develop their entire offense system around Tebow's very limited skill-set as a QB, then I dont think I did. But the wishbone just isnt used enough on the pro level anymore . . . mcdumfluck used a first-rounder on him, so he at least had some idea in the back of his pointy little head how you might use him I guess the offensive mastermind behind the St. Louis Rams offense of 2011 might have an idea of how to use Tebow . . . but no one else does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 absolutely worthless and meaningless stat. how many of those "short" passes were dumpoffs after he read coverage on a downfield route? how many 3 step drops were there? I am guessing that once again you didn't actually watch the game, correct? In fairness, no I did not. That said, the name Moreno only showed up in a few of them. Further, the fact that a full 2/3s of the pass plays were considered "short" can't be entirely explained away and does make one wonder if the coaches weren't totally ignoring the short passing game as has been alluded to. Regardless, are you implying that it only counts as a short route if there's nobody deep in the pattern? Isn't there pretty much always someone deep in the pattern? Are you implying that the coaches should have just sent every receiver 5 yards down field? I understand that there's no substitute for watching the game. I also understand that, despite his protestations, BB does have a hard-on for Tebow and is ready to drop gloves with anyone who implies he's the problem. So, his judgment could be clouded and it's worth doing a bit of a fact check when he claims that the coaches were asking Tebow to stand back there all day long and wait for long routes to develop. Because it seems like they threw the ball short, just a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 the point was not that the decision to draft him there was a wise one. the point was that mcdaniels coveted tebow highly as an asset, which gives some indication (along with tebow's somewhat promising performance the last few games of the season) that he had an idea how to work with tebow's strengths and weaknesses. the current regime has not yet shown that they have the slightest clue in that regard. that was my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Who made that statement? Or do you consider the quick slants that Brady throws regularly to Welker to be non-NFL throws? I guess Rodgers sucks as a pro QB because he throws screen passes and waggles when other teams try to rattle him with blitzes? Maybe I was mistaken, but it sure sounded like you were advocating them going to a spread look that would favor him... And umm, as for Brady, that's called taking what the defense gives you. There's a big difference between playing to your strengths and taking what they give you, and trying your best to cover up glaring deficiencies with a guy. The former forces them to pick their poison, while the latter only tips them off on how to stop you. Form what I can see, defenses don't respect Tebow's ability to throw or get rid of the ball quickly, so it wasn't surprising when I heard that the Lions were only single-covering recievers and keying in on him... Brady makes them pay for overcommitting, but Tebow doesn't have that same ability, so the comparison is silly... Also, it's pretty clear that Brady fits as good as anyone into his team's system, while Denver is going to have to try to fit their system to accomodate Tebow's massive shortcomings as a passer... Not the same thing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 It's almost as though the coaches are actively setting Tebow up. I'm gonna stop now before I get into another pissing match with BB, but this post didn't get the response that it deserves... Yes, he may be set up for failure by them putting him out now when he's clearly not ready, but to think they're ACTIVELY setting him up? You really are more delusional than I thought about this guy having NFL game... If you look like that after a year and a half in the NFL, there is not a scheme out there that's gonna somehow make you be able to have the skillset to be a successful QB. Also, what coordinator is going to tell you to hold the ball for 4 or 5 seconds and wait on a read? I'm amazed that you can blame the playcalling for him constantly holding the ball way too long and taking sacks .. Even if that was the case, smart QBs throw it away if nothing is there and they're getting pressured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Why? So Orton can keep failing in clutch situations? DEN already knows he has that nailed. At the risk of being called a Tebow sack-swinger, which I have been labeled by some even though I have stated clearly that Tebow's performances have sucked so far this year, DEN needs to listen to what John Lynch was preaching while announcing all game yesterday. They need to give Tebow plays that he can run successfully. Where were the screeens and 5 yd hot routes when DET was bringing 5 to 7 guys after the first series? No slants, no waggles, no hooks or ins. Despite DET regularly sending more than the O-line could handle - and the O-line struggles with regular pressure (I have no clue why rookie Orlando Franklin is playing RT - Tebow's blindside - because he simply can not move his feet to even get his hands on opposing DEs, much less protect Tebow). Yet OC McCoy is still calling for routes by recivers to be run 20 yds+ downfield. Tebow looked shell shocked in the 2nd half yesterday. He made some really bad throws, but he made some good throws too. That deep pass to Royal, who forgot to drag his back foot, would have been a sweet TD. Some of his better passes went right through the hands of D Thomas, Royal, and J Thomas. Lynch was right on target with his assessment, which he called for all game long. Give Tebow some plays that he can be successful at, and that the O-line can keep the D off of him, work on his fundamentals like footwork, timing, etc, and see if he can play. But if DEN is simply going to continue with running almost exclusively pass routes that take 4 to 5 seconds to develop, Tebow is not only going to be miserable - which he was again yesterday - but he's going to get hurt badly. If the DEN braintrust simply can't comprehend that and instead throw Tebow to the wolves, they may as well send him packing for a 7th round draft pick and start Orton or Quinn and let them continue to lose. What they are doing on O benefits no one, the O can't pull it off, and it does nothing to see if Tebow actually has the goods - which he very well may not. It's almost as though the coaches are actively setting Tebow up. whoa - that is some batchit crazy talk..... the problem is everyone is giving him a shot and the benefit of the doubt bc of who Timmay is, when the reality is anyone else with TT skills wouldn't even make the scout team. He is awful, and is never going to be an NFL caliber QB. Perfect example was in the first qtr when he had Decker for a TD on as easy of a throw as a QB can ask for. Yet somehow with his wind up, long delivery and poor anticipation Timmay is late and ends up throwing a balloon that Decker can't corral in time for the TD. It really was a simple throw, yet he is being set up to fail?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slainte Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) to really understand what makes up the man, may i suggest reading the book 'through my eyes'. it gives you all the insight one needs to understand the argument for tebow being an intriguing weapon for an nfl offense that desires nothing more than winning. Edited October 31, 2011 by slainte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I was reading comments on Tebow articles and someone said they were going to dress up as Tebow for Halloween and when he answered the door, he was going to just throw the candy over the kids heads every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I was reading comments on Tebow articles and someone said they were going to dress up as Tebow for Halloween and when he answered the door, he was going to just throw the candy over the kids heads every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Agreed with everything you've said. If DEN goes back to Orton, it goes back to a QB who had the worst record in the NFL as a starter over his last 24 games. What purpose does that serve? Quinn already has built his resume, and his play in games is very reminiscent of what we are seeing from Tebow right now. There is no downside to just leaving Tebow in and letting him play. But for Pete's sake, give him some plays that will save his ass from a pass rush, and even better back the pass rush off, give him a little more help with extra blockers or chipping before players go out on routes, and then coach him up and see if he can improve. What is going on now is nonsensical and if it continues ought to get the both Fox and McCoy canned. It's not like that turned around the Eagles fortunes this year. Oh wait,... nevermind. Well doing that didn't help Cutler and the Bears recover their season. Wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbs0121 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 That anonymous Lions defender quote that came out yesterday pretty much sums it up. There's no quarterback in this league not named Tim Tebow that would draw a remark like that, and it's not because of his religion or his personality or any of that garbage, it's because he's historically awful. He's the worst quarterback I've seen since Ryan Leaf, and Leaf didn't give a damn about playing in the NFL. No amount of shaping the offense around him will make this guy consistently throw an accurate, catchable ball or know where to throw vs. the coverage on the field. It's just an absolute joke - Orton is doubtless a bad NFL quarterback, but at least he's an NFL quarterback. At this point, I'm concerned that Tebow is going to get killed back there. The only question is why this is even a discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) That anonymous Lions defender quote that came out yesterday pretty much sums it up. There's no quarterback in this league not named Tim Tebow that would draw a remark like that, and it's not because of his religion or his personality or any of that garbage, it's because he's historically awful. He's the worst quarterback I've seen since Ryan Leaf, and Leaf didn't give a damn about playing in the NFL. No amount of shaping the offense around him will make this guy consistently throw an accurate, catchable ball or know where to throw vs. the coverage on the field. It's just an absolute joke - Orton is doubtless a bad NFL quarterback, but at least he's an NFL quarterback. At this point, I'm concerned that Tebow is going to get killed back there. The only question is why this is even a discussion. That remark from the Lion defender only re-emphasizes that DEN did not protect Tebow properly. In response to the excessive pressure, Tebow made some atrocious throws. But given the pressure that DET was coming with and given how poorly the DEN O-line was handling it, what possible reason is there for an OC to not make a change in the protection scheme and to not shorten the routes, or to call plays that take advantage of such a dedication to excessive D pressure, like screens, short slants, and TE waggles off a chip block? Again, Tebow absolutely made some poor decisions and poor throws - but he got no help from the playcalling and the O-line was flat out overwhelmed. It is a discussion because thinking people recognize the different factors involved instead of wanting to gleefully lay all the blame at Tebow's feet. Edited November 1, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheMan_5 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 A Detroit Lions defensive player said following the team's Week 8 win over the Denver Broncos that the defense became bored dominating QB Tim Tebow in the second half. 'Can you believe ’15’?” the anonymous defender asked. 'Come on – that’s embarrassing. I mean, it’s a joke. We knew all week that if we brought any kind of defensive pressure, he couldn’t do anything. In the second half it got boring out there. We were like, ‘Come on – that’s your quarterback? Seriously?'' DL Cliff Avril added, 'As long as he felt our pressure, he was gonna make crazy decisions.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I was reading comments on Tebow articles and someone said they were going to dress up as Tebow for Halloween and when he answered the door, he was going to just throw the candy over the kids heads every time. These gems might be the top reason I will never leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) In addition, Tebow in his post game interview said he was doing what the coaches were telling him to do in reaction to the pressure, which was to climb the pocket. If you watched the game, you saw a dedication by Tebow not to break contain but rather to stay in the pocket and move forward - which sent him right into the teeth of the additonal pressure coming from the inside. Why do you think the DEN coaches refused to get a double on the edge and allow Tebow to roll from pressure rather than climbing into it? Asking an honest question, because I don't have an answer to it. Edited November 1, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) ... Now I'm no D-coordinator, so maybe there is a possibility that a proliferation of the spread offense working in the NFL, but I have serious doubts about that. No one will run the spread option in the NFL, because that will generally get your QB killed. As far as the spread passing principles, well, just ask Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers how poorly those work in the NFL. EDIT - ah, beaten to the punch by Bronco Billy. Edited November 1, 2011 by Chavez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 A Detroit Lions defensive player said following the team's Week 8 win over the Denver Broncos that the defense became bored dominating QB Tim Tebow in the second half. 'Can you believe ’15’?” the anonymous defender asked. 'Come on – that’s embarrassing. I mean, it’s a joke. We knew all week that if we brought any kind of defensive pressure, he couldn’t do anything. In the second half it got boring out there. We were like, ‘Come on – that’s your quarterback? Seriously?'' DL Cliff Avril added, 'As long as he felt our pressure, he was gonna make crazy decisions.' This is what we are referencing in the posts immediately above yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheMan_5 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 This is what we are referencing in the posts immediately above yours. <~~~Ashamed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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