Dragon Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 I never fill in salary history. It is none of their business unless they hire me. Also, I have been blessed with some extremely high paying jobs. Most of the time the person hiring has never made half of what I made working for Enron. From reading this post, I would imagine the region of the country and the industry involved influence the "salry requirements" debate and who lists them first, employer or applicant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 OK, so you don't respond to ads that don't list a salary range - that's cool, it's your choice. Yet you expect employers to look at a resume without a desired salary range, when it was specifically asked for? I must be missing something. Interviewing, Hiring and Job Hunting is a very very tough game....the hiring company wants to hire a person at the best possible salary for their company...the job seeker wants to maximize their worth....in the end many companies end up wasting tons of money because they have poor hiring/recruiting techniques or training procedures...not saying that is the case with anyone here, it is just an observation.... In response to DemonKinght's post - I think cover letters are a vastly underutilized tool. A good cover letter can explain a lot of things that a resume does not, the most important being why a person is a good fit for a specific job. Showing some initiative in researching a company and specifially talking about how past experience pertains to the job description (or what the job seems to be) means a lot to me. A resume should be filled with facts - a cover letter lets you tell a story as to why those facts are important to the position, as well as things that you can't put on a resume. So yeah, in a way, it is an essay on how awesome one is. But I don't think most people look at it that way and you tend to see a lot of really crappy cover letters. I agree but back when Alexgaddis said he was looking for another job I was called a dinosaur for telling him to send a cover letter etc....I guess I am old fashioned but I would still find a way to get a hard copy of a resume/cover letter into the hands of the person hiring even if you were only supposed to submit it online....as far as how I would handle a question regarding salary requirements(i have done this in the past, and was offered the job)....In the cover letter I would state something along the lines of how salary is not the main factor for my interest in joining your orginazation and say something along the lines of being mutually beneficial and profitable for all parties involved... i dont know maybe i am ancient but I do know that MANY PEOPLE INTERVIEW POORLY as well as write HORRIBLE RESUMES....Poor Hiring and Training cost companies so much money its n ot even funny....the best way to find qualified candidates is thru network recruiting and it seems that not enough people or companies do it or do it well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 (edited) In response to DemonKinght's post - I think cover letters are a vastly underutilized tool. A good cover letter can explain a lot of things that a resume does not, the most important being why a person is a good fit for a specific job. Showing some initiative in researching a company and specifially talking about how past experience pertains to the job description (or what the job seems to be) means a lot to me. A resume should be filled with facts - a cover letter lets you tell a story as to why those facts are important to the position, as well as things that you can't put on a resume. So yeah, in a way, it is an essay on how awesome one is. But I don't think most people look at it that way and you tend to see a lot of really crappy cover letters. and unfortunately the THANK YOU LETTER seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur too... simply put...if I am hiring and i have 3 candidates that I am torn on(all interviewed well, references ck out...etc...they are all perfect for the job) ..one of the candidates sends me a thank you letter....well then they just got hired edit: for those that will chime in with the cover letters and thank you letters are dead...realize this...a cover letter and thank you letter are forms of communications...most successful people are good communicators and bad/poor workers/biz people are usually poor communicators Edited July 26, 2007 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 This is the age-old question. Current wisdom is that the first one to mention a $ amount gives up a significant amount of leverage if it comes down to actually salary negociations. I think a great deal depends on the market. If it is an employer's market, it would be much easier to require that applicants give you a range...if it is an employee's market, it is easier for applicants to ignore the request (although I would never completely ignore a spicific request such as that, if nothing else I would as the olde BS "compensation is one of only several things I am looking for in a positions, if I am a good match for the position, I am sure that we will be able to come to an agreement that is fair for all concerned" blah blah blah). GOOD POSTING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House of Pain Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Mikie Troller, I want unlimited amounts beer of my choice, 3 bags of real good sticky Josh Gordon a week and Mikie Bier as my personal chef.... I also demand some kind of wireless innanets and full privy on any female in your family or surrounding 5 mile radius. TIA Mike HoP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Exactly. My thinking is that if you can't comply with a simple request you either don't really want this particular job (you basically want ANY job) or you feel you are "above" complying, in which case I've gotta think you would make a sh!tty employee. In either case, I'm not going to respond to anyone that doesn't take the time/effort to comply. Wow. You make snap decisions on employees over stupid reasons. I'm glad I don't work for you, or work for the company you hire people for. I've been on a few interviews where it was clear the person doing the hiring was on a power trip that absolutely would NOT facilitate hiring the most qualified person for the job. I didn't even follow up with them. I saw the exact same job listed 3 months later from the same company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffraff Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 and only 1 of the 20 listed their salary range. Just curious, did you expect a wide range of salaries (5k low to 15k high depending upon package deal) or a more defined low end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 In the Help Wanted ad, I described the company (briefly) and the job duties and listed the requirements (education & experience levels). I also asked for a cover letter including salary requirements. So far, I have received about 20 resumes, and only 1 of the 20 listed their salary range. Suffering succotash! is wrong with people? If you can't even read the ad & respond accordingly, how do you expect to land a job? Is a resume, cover letter and salary requirements too much to ask for? A few things on this..... I am technical recruiter, and first off, I would not expect quality candidates from Craig's- period. There are some out there, but you have to wade thru the garbage, many of them just spam and send blanket emails and resumes to every job in thier semi-ballpark. Salary Req. right off the bat is tricky- and it has been my experience the candidates that do on initial contact get effed. The thing is, salary req depend on so many things, that to list your salary req right off the bat is obviously good for employers, but bad practice for a candidate. Many positions are very attractive, and candidates will lessen their req. for the right gig, why get screend out for being too $$. Besides when salary comes into play, most of our clients are very good at knowing a future employee's worth, and digging out their past salary history anyway. I deal with this on a daily basis in placing contractors. The ones who know their worth, and do their homework know how to get a feel for the position, and FMV. The ones who don't are the ones who give me an initial figure- let's say $40/hr, and I immediately tell them that the position pays $30-$35, and they always seem to be ok with it. But that is just biznazz. Cover Letters.....we went thru this a while back- Keggerz- no offense on the Dinosaur call- I am with Demon on this- I don't even read them, the candidates who are on the mark have a resume that reflects this, no letter is needed. The ones who are off the mark, and a longshot at best, always seem to have lengthly cover letters trying to show the relevance of their non-relevant experience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Wow. You make snap decisions on employees over stupid reasons. I'm glad I don't work for you, or work for the company you hire people for. It's not a snap decision. If the ad specifically says "resumes without salary requirements will not be considered" or "include salary requirements with resume / cover letter", then that component is obviously part of the screening process. Notice, I said PART of the screening process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controller Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 (edited) As usual, I appreciate the wide variety of opinions, pro or con, here in the Tailgate. I don't have to hire very often (thankfully) so maybe I'm not the best at this process, but I'm all I've got. FYI, here are the particulars of this position: Salary range: $45,000 to $60,000 depending on the experience level of the candidate Four weeks paid vacation the first year 100% matching on the 401k up to 3% of salary Paid sick days Company pays 90% of all medical, dental & vision care for employee AND spouse and dependents (Employee can choose HMO or PPO) Unlimited internet access, but I better not catch you using it outside of breaks or before & after the work day (it is extremely busy here) Given that, I'd like to hear any advice about my approach - I can always change the ad or create a new one. BTW, of those applicants who did list a salary range, all of them were toward the low end of what I'm willing to pay. Knowing my boss (the owner) he would probably want to start the person out at a rate that is 5 to 10% higher than their stated salary range preference - that's just the way he is. Edited July 28, 2007 by Controller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 As usual, I appreciate the wide variety of opinions, pro or con, here in the Tailgate. I don't have to hire very often (thankfully) so maybe I'm not the best at this process, but I'm all I've got. FYI, here are the particulars of this position: Salary range: $45,000 to $60,000 depending on the experience level of the candidate Four weeks paid vacation the first year 100% matching on the 401k up to 3% of salary Paid sick days Company pays 90% of all medical, dental & vision care for employee AND spouse and dependents (Employee can choose HMO or PPO) Unlimited internet access, but I better not catch you using it outside of breaks or before & after the work day (it is extremely busy here) Given that, I'd like to hear any advice about my approach - I can always change the ad or create a new one. BTW, of those applicants who did list a salary range, all of them were toward the low end of what I'm willing to pay. Knowing my boss (the owner) he would probably want to start the person out at a rate that is 5 to 10% higher than their stated salary range preference - that's just the way he is. I agree with many of the posters here that have said to not ask for a salary range. It seems both unprofessional and short-sighted to me. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for a cover letter, though I would be loathe to disqualify a candidate for not including one. Remember, you're looking to hire a professional here. Don't screen resumes the same way you would for a burger-flipping job. Screen them by their qualifications and experience. Do you really want to miss out on the best candidate because they didn't list their salary range (acting on the advice of nearly every employment guide out there)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controller Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 FYI, here are the particulars of this position: Salary range: $45,000 to $60,000 depending on the experience level of the candidate Four weeks paid vacation the first year 100% matching on the 401k up to 3% of salary Paid sick days Company pays 90% of all medical, dental & vision care for employee AND spouse and dependents (Employee can choose HMO or PPO) Unlimited internet access, but I better not catch you using it outside of breaks or before & after the work day (it is extremely busy here) Given that, I'd like to hear any advice about my approach - I can always change the ad or create a new one. Opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Opinions? It looks good but I would take out the internet part. Internet access is kinda a given these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Opinions? I think that those are some decent benefits (90% of health is more than I get.). I have no idea how the salary compares for that type of position. 401(k) matching is a bit lower than what I get (100% match of first two percent, 50% match of next four). Paid sick days and internet access aren't really considered benefits (just like an employee showing up for work on time and using company resources like phone and internet in a resposnible manner aren't really considered qualifications; they're all pretty standard for a professional position). They're nice, but I wouldn't trot them out like they're anything special, and I certainly wouldn't include the autocratic blurb threatening potential employees. That will likely turn off many of the best candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffraff Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 When I saw this video, I thought of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Cracker Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I think your current approach is just fine. Perhaps list some of the benefits in the ad and maybe even include salary range. Just don't screen out a candidate based only on the fact that they left off salary requirements. If it is obviously a well thought out and written cover letter with a good resume give them a chance at an interview and ask why they left that part off. The real problem is the huge number of slackers on the planet now who do stupid things like send anyone a cover letter titled "Generic Cover Letter." That would end my consideration immediately. I think you should customize your resume to every job you send it out for as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 We paid $7500 to find the current person in the position and she is leaving after 5 months and we just spent $7500 for basically nothing. I just committed to forking over $50,000 to a recruiter yesterday for two new hires. You want quality, use a recruiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I just committed to forking over $50,000 to a recruiter yesterday for two new hires. You want quality, use a recruiter. You should use my MN. office. Good guys up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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