Tebow

[Bronco Billy]

Kinda off topic, but I also thought Orton looked much improved. Gaffney should be a nice late-round pick in drafts this year.

 

I think Orton's performance is going to be governed in a large part by the performance of the O-line, especially considering that he has the scrambling ability of a 2000 lb boulder. The vanilla stuff that CIN threw at them while Orton was in the game was not much of an indicator of what pressure he'll be under constantly during the regular season - especially if there isn't much running game to keep the D guessing at least a little. I wouldn't read too much into his 1st preseason game numbers.

[budlitebrad]

Tim Tebow is reportedly in danger of missing the Broncos' second preseason game Sunday due to a rib injury.

 

We're going to have to give him the injury risk label pretty soon.

[Sunday Couch Potatoe]

We're going to have to give him the injury risk label pretty soon.

Just think what will happen when he tries to run over little old Willis These arent college kids anymore Tebow better perfect the QB slide

Edited August 20, 2010 by Sunday Couch Potatoe

[NAUgrad]

I think Orton's performance is going to be governed in a large part by the performance of the O-line, especially considering that he has the scrambling ability of a 2000 lb boulder. The vanilla stuff that CIN threw at them while Orton was in the game was not much of an indicator of what pressure he'll be under constantly during the regular season - especially if there isn't much running game to keep the D guessing at least a little. I wouldn't read too much into his 1st preseason game numbers.

 

Unfortunately I didn't see the game at all, but I have a couple of questions.

 

Did Denver leave in the 1st team O-line, or 2nd team O-line while Tebow was playing near the end of the game. Based on your comments, it sounded like they left in the 1st team O-line with Tebow.

 

Also, regarding the blitzing, didn't McDaniels say that they blitzed alot more than they expected during the game? Was that mostly with 2nd and 3rd team defenses, or was it with everyone?

 

Again, I didn't see the game so I really don't know.

[BearBroncos]

Did Denver leave in the 1st team O-line, or 2nd team O-line while Tebow was playing near the end of the game. Based on your comments, it sounded like they left in the 1st team O-line with Tebow.

 

First string from all I could tell was only in there 2 or 3 series.

 

Also, regarding the blitzing, didn't McDaniels say that they blitzed alot more than they expected during the game? Was that mostly with 2nd and 3rd team defenses, or was it with everyone?

 

It was the second and third team defense and they had to start pressuring the QB because they were getting pwned. The first string defense looked okay, not great by any means but there is a lack of depth in their second and third string.

[Bronco Billy]

Unfortunately I didn't see the game at all, but I have a couple of questions.

 

Did Denver leave in the 1st team O-line, or 2nd team O-line while Tebow was playing near the end of the game. Based on your comments, it sounded like they left in the 1st team O-line with Tebow.

 

Also, regarding the blitzing, didn't McDaniels say that they blitzed alot more than they expected during the game? Was that mostly with 2nd and 3rd team defenses, or was it with everyone?

 

Again, I didn't see the game so I really don't know.

 

The 1st team O-line (excepting injured players) played almost the entire game, including when Tebow was in. The CIN D was extremely vanilla while Orton was in the game. When Tebow was in CIN started blitzing pretty radically - Beadles and Walton were seen to be obviously confused at times. Watch the highlight of the Tebow TD run with 1:09 left and you can see #50 Walton, #68 Beadles, #67 Batiste blocking along with #77 Tyler Polumbus and #64 Stanley Daniels. That's currently three 1st stringers and two 2nd stringers.

 

link to Tebow TD run with 1:09 left

 

I'd guess the CIN starting to blitz at the end was at least in part in response to DEN leaving its starting O-line in while Tebow was in during the 4th quarter.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Bronco Billy

[NAUgrad]

Did Denver leave in the 1st team O-line, or 2nd team O-line while Tebow was playing near the end of the game. Based on your comments, it sounded like they left in the 1st team O-line with Tebow.

 

First string from all I could tell was only in there 2 or 3 series.

 

Also, regarding the blitzing, didn't McDaniels say that they blitzed alot more than they expected during the game? Was that mostly with 2nd and 3rd team defenses, or was it with everyone?

 

It was the second and third team defense and they had to start pressuring the QB because they were getting pwned. The first string defense looked okay, not great by any means but there is a lack of depth in their second and third string.

The blitzing question was meant to be about the Cinci D. I thought McDaniels was saying that the Cinci D blitzed alot more than they expected.

[redrumjuice]

Even one at 6'3" and 245 pounds I think I can see him runnin over a few LBs and if he gets in the secondary look out.

 

 

So, half a game against 3rd stringers who won't make the team and he already got hurt trying to 'runnin over a few'.

[rustycolts]

L

All the college numbers in the world don't mean poop. Ask Andre Ware or Jason White. All the running ability in the world doesn't mean poop. Being able to run over linebackers doesn't mean poop. Being a smart kid doesn't mean poop. Take every single thing he has ever done and throw it out the window. The mechanics don't even matter. There are two and only two things that every succssful NFL quarterback in this era have in common:

 

1. The ability to make reads

2. The ability to throw with pin-point accuracy.

 

Tebow is blessed by running an offense where his wide receivers become wide freakin' open. All he has to do is put the ball anywhere close to them and they are open enough to be able to make the play. He isn't asked to do anything more than that. That is nothing like putting balls, on time, into a two-foot by two-foot window to a place where only the WR can catch the ball. Not very many people on this planet were born with enough accuracy to be able to do it. Throwing accuracy and touch are innate abilities. They are not something that can be taught. Tebow simply wasn't born with enough potential to throw the ball accurately to ever become a successfl NFL quarterback.

 

Is he fast enough to ever play TE? That is the most prominent question towards the NFL future of Tim Tebow.

 

 

[/quote

Tebow made a couple of throws this season and a couple of nice runs looks like he might make it as a TE

[detlef]

Tebow made a couple of throws this season and a couple of nice runs looks like he might make it as a TE

Tebow lighting up the piss poor Texan's pass D is going to be the worst thing that ever happened to the Broncos next year. Because now all the fans are going to flip out even more about this guy and any coach who goes there knows they're going to be stuck with this guy for at least a year and that the only way they can move on to someone else is to let him fail, which means they fail and the clock starts ticking on their job.

 

So, anyone worth a crap is going to stay as far away from this gig as they can.

[Crazysight]

Tebow lighting up the piss poor Texan's pass D is going to be the worst thing that ever happened to the Broncos next year. Because now all the fans are going to flip out even more about this guy and any coach who goes there knows they're going to be stuck with this guy for at least a year and that the only way they can move on to someone else is to let him fail, which means they fail and the clock starts ticking on their job.

 

So, anyone worth a crap is going to stay as far away from this gig as they can.

 

 

I like him. He's got outstanding character. If it's OK for people to root for a guy who was an underdog like Mike Vick when he got out of prison given the acts of scumbaggery that he's committed in his career (I'm sure his success has had something to do with his outstanding ability to read defenses too) then I see no reason why people shouldn't do the same with Tebow. And if Vick can have the level of success that he's had after coming back (and he was never known for accuracy or reading defenses with the falcons either, a fact well stated in a line from the parody "the dogs in the kennel": "I underthrew him a bone") there's no reason to believe that Tebow won't be able to overcome "mechanical flaws" (like we haven't been hearing that forever now...I'm pretty sure that critique has been heard by him plenty, too) or whatever else your knock on Tebow might be.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Crazysight

[Jackass]

I like him. He's got outstanding character. If it's OK for people to root for a guy who was an underdog like Mike Vick when he got out of prison given the acts of scumbaggery that he's committed in his career (I'm sure his success has had something to do with his outstanding ability to read defenses too) then I see no reason why people shouldn't do the same with Tebow. And if Vick can have the level of success that he's had after coming back (and he was never known for accuracy or reading defenses with the falcons) there's no reason to believe that Tebow won't be able to overcome "mechanical flaws" (like we haven't been hearing that forever now...I'm pretty sure that critique has been heard by him plenty, too) or whatever else your knock on Tebow might be.

 

nothing wrong with rooting for Tebow. but your analogy with vick on both levels is a little hard for me to see.

[detlef]

nothing wrong with rooting for Tebow. but your analogy with vick on both levels is a little hard for me to see.

what he said.

 

Let the record state that I don't think Tebow is a bad person.

[polksalet]

Tebow lighting up the piss poor Texan's pass D is going to be the worst thing that ever happened to the Broncos next year. Because now all the fans are going to flip out even more about this guy and any coach who goes there knows they're going to be stuck with this guy for at least a year and that the only way they can move on to someone else is to let him fail, which means they fail and the clock starts ticking on their job.

 

So, anyone worth a crap is going to stay as far away from this gig as they can.

 

this

[Turf Smurf]

I like him. He's got outstanding character. If it's OK for people to root for a guy who was an underdog like Mike Vick when he got out of prison given the acts of scumbaggery that he's committed in his career (I'm sure his success has had something to do with his outstanding ability to read defenses too) then I see no reason why people shouldn't do the same with Tebow. And if Vick can have the level of success that he's had after coming back (and he was never known for accuracy or reading defenses with the falcons either, a fact well stated in a line from the parody "the dogs in the kennel": "I underthrew him a bone") there's no reason to believe that Tebow won't be able to overcome "mechanical flaws" (like we haven't been hearing that forever now...I'm pretty sure that critique has been heard by him plenty, too) or whatever else your knock on Tebow might be.

I believe he has "to much" character for some. Makes them nervous and unable to form an intelligent opinion. This is not the correct forum, but my sense is that these type folks are flaming liberals.

[detlef]

this

 

 

I believe he has "to much" character for some. Makes them nervous and unable to form an intelligent opinion. This is not the correct forum, but my sense is that these type folks are flaming liberals.

polksalet, you effing hippie!

 

Ya, maybe we're blinded by his goodness and can't think straight. Then again, maybe we've been watching the game long enough to see that the odds are typically very much stacked against guys who play like him and have really bad mechanics.

 

I mean, people act like the mechanics are just so easy to teach. So, let me get this straight. I'm going to guess he's been playing QB for basically his entire life. The last four of which is at a super elite school with a seemingly endless budget. He's been hearing for basically that entire time that his mechanics will be his downfall. And the only reason why he still throws that way is because nobody has bothered to show him how? That, as soon as someone simply takes the time to do something that nobody has done in his entire life of being a prodigy QB, he'll be throwing it like Marino.

Edited December 30, 2010 by detlef

[Turf Smurf]

polksalet, you effing hippie!

 

Ya, maybe we're blinded by his goodness and can't think straight. Then again, maybe we've been watching the game long enough to see that the odds are typically very much stacked against guys who play like him and have really bad mechanics.

 

I mean, people act like the mechanics are just so easy to teach. So, let me get this straight. I'm going to guess he's been playing QB for basically his entire life. The last four of which is at a super elite school with a seemingly endless budget. He's been hearing for basically that entire time that his mechanics will be his downfall. And the only reason why he still throws that way is because nobody has bothered to show him how? That, as soon as someone simply takes the time to do something that nobody has done in his entire life of being a prodigy QB, he'll be throwing it like Marino.

 

During the 2007 season, Tebow became the first college football player to both rush and pass for 20 or more touchdowns in a single season and the first college sophomore to win the Heisman Trophy. In addition to winning the Heisman Trophy, his 2007 performance also earned him the Maxwell Award as the nation's top football player, the Davey O'Brien Award as the nation's best quarterback and the James E. Sullivan Award as the nation's most outstanding amateur athlete in any sport.

 

One of his highlights as a high school athlete was finishing a game on a broken leg. During his senior season he led the Nease Panthers to a state title, earned All-State honors, was named Florida's Mr. Football and a Parade magazine high school All-American. Tebow finished his high school career with 9,810 passing yards, 3,186 rushing yards, 95 passing touchdowns and 62 rushing touchdowns.

 

In 2007 he was named to FHSAA's All-Century Team that listed the Top 33 football players in the state of Florida's 100 year history of high school football.

 

There were some questions about how Tebow would perform as a full time passer, but he opened the year (2007) 13-of-17 for 300 yards and 3 touchdowns in his starting debut against Western Kentucky University. Tebow finished the regular season with 217 completed passes in 317 attempts for 3132 yards gained and 29 touchdowns with six interceptions—giving him the second highest passing efficiency in the nation with 177.8. Additionally, he rushed 194 times for 838 yards and 22 touchdowns on the ground through 11 games. Tebow's 51 touchdowns were more than 87 Division 1-A Teams scored.

 

In a game versus the South Carolina Gamecocks on November 10, (2007) Tebow broke the school record for rushing touchdowns in a season and set a career high with 5 rushing touchdowns. This brought his season total to 19 rushing touchdowns, which tied him for the SEC record for any player in a season (shared with Shaun Alexander, Garrison Hearst, and LaBrandon Toefield). He also broke Danny Wuerffel's conference record for touchdowns accounted for in a single season with 42.

 

On November 17, (2007) Tebow had a record day against Florida Atlantic, he scored his 20th rushing touchdown to set a new conference record for most rushing touchdowns in a season. He also became the only person ever in NCAA History to score 20 touchdowns rushing and 20 touchdowns passing in the same season.

 

On November 24, (2007) against the Florida State Seminoles, Tebow threw for three touchdowns and rushed for two in a 45–12 rout of the Seminoles. It was later revealed that Tebow fractured his right hand during the third quarter but played the rest of the game. He had to wear a cast for the next three weeks.

 

On November 1, 2008, playing against the Georgia Bulldogs, Tebow ran for his 37th rushing touchdown, breaking the school record previously held by former Florida running back Emmitt Smith.

 

On December 13, 2008, Tebow finished third in the 2008 Heisman Trophy voting with Oklahoma's Sam Bradford taking the top spot followed by Texas' Colt McCoy, despite Tebow receiving the most first-place votes. Tebow also won the Maxwell Award in 2008, becoming only the second player to win the award twice.

 

On October 31, 2009, while playing against the Georgia Bulldogs, Tebow ran for his 50th and 51st rushing touchdowns, breaking the SEC career record previously held by former Georgia running back Herschel Walker.

 

 

 

Bad mechanics? Hmmm...Shaun Alexander, Garrison Hearst, LaBrandon, Toefield, Danny Wuerffel, Emmitt Smith, and Herschel Walker. Perhaps mechanics, but a big chunk of that will be resolved by pre-season. He seems extremely intelligent to me. Say whatever you want, but the kid has earned my respect and I'll roll with him and reap all the points coming my way.

[redrumjuice]

Did stuff in college

 

Hey all pro, this ain't amateur ball anymore.

[detlef]

Danny Wuerffel

So now you're using Danny Wuerffel as a measuring stick?

 

Glad you've come around to my side of the argument.

[Jackass]

Bad mechanics? Hmmm...Shaun Alexander, Garrison Hearst, LaBrandon, Toefield, Danny Wuerffel, Emmitt Smith, and Herschel Walker. Perhaps mechanics, but a big chunk of that will be resolved by pre-season. He seems extremely intelligent to me. Say whatever you want, but the kid has earned my respect and I'll roll with him and reap all the points coming my way.

 

 

You list all his college accomplishments, offer your opinion that "he seems extremely intelligent to me" and conclude since he's beaten records held by a QB who flopped in the nfl and a bunch of rb's, that he'll be a successful qb in the nfl.

[keggerz]

You list all his college accomplishments, offer your opinion that "he seems extremely intelligent to me" and conclude since he's beaten records held by a QB who flopped in the nfl and a bunch of rb's, that he'll be a successful qb in the nfl.

what I thought too..oh and he listed his HS accomplishments too

[Turf Smurf]

Was just trying to provide information. Obviously time will tell, but I'm willing to take a leap of faith. It's panned out quite well in the past. Each to his/her own.

 

Pretty sad that all you can do is slam me instead of providing evidence to back up your side of the argument. Oh, wait, that's because there is none.

[Jackass]

Was just trying to provide information. Obviously time will tell, but I'm willing to take a leap of faith. It's panned out quite well in the past. Each to his/her own.

 

Pretty sad that all you can do is slam me instead of providing evidence to back up your side of the argument. Oh, wait, that's because there is none.

 

I think we realize you were trying to provide information. That information was completely useless to this debate. Thanks for trying though.

[Turf Smurf]

I think we realize you were trying to provide information. That information was completely useless to this debate. Thanks for trying though.

Thanks. At least you didn't get my lunch money.

[Bronco Billy]

Wow. The stupid in here is thick.

 

Throw away the college crap. We are getting a book on Tebow playing in the pros. I'd freely admit that I was very skeptical of his ability - mostly because of his college history and the offense he was running with the throws he was being asked to make. When he had to make the pro throws at the college level he seemed to struggle, and he virtually never had to go into traditional drop, read, and throw progressions.

 

Now that I've seen him play in the pros, I am convinced through direct evidence that he can make the throws he needs to in order to succeed at the pro level, and he can drop properly into a pocket and look through the D. He has the clock in his head in the pocket and he has the ability to feel pressure as the pocket deteriorates. He can throw the deep out, he can throw past a cheating FS, and he can drop the ball in the bucket at 8 yds and at 35 yds. He can fit the ball into the smaller pro window and he can place the ball into spots where the D has to go through the reciever to get at it. We know all this because we have seen him do it at the pro level. These were all areas where I had questions about Tebow's ability to transfer his skill set to the bigs.

 

Some of the other things we had a pretty good idea would transfer: His leadership ability - no question. His ability to lift the level of play of those around him - no question, though being able to make pro decisions and throws helps that tremendously. His enforcing his will late in a close game to drive for the clinching or winning score - it's there at this level. That his team mates trust him implicitly - no question.

 

Some guys get so caught up in a QB's ability to look pretty throwing the football or to throw a perfect spiral that looks so neat in slow motion on SportsCenter that they completely overlook what really matters: That he can get the job done moving the team up and down the field, and then put the ball in the end zone. Tebow is a chains-mover. Between his ability to throw a solid pro pass and his running ability, he can keep the down-and-distance markers moving. And if we have seen conclusive evidence of anything so far, it is that Tebow is positively deadly in the red zone. His diverse physical abilities put a tremendous amount of pressure on a D, especially when things get tighter inside the 20. He can force mismatches through his ability to both run north & south, and to extend plays laterally. He absolutely has that coveted "nose for the end zone".

 

I don't think Tebow is ever going to throw for 4000 yds. He's not gifted enough to do that. I do think Tebow has made and is going to make obvious errors as he progresses through his learning curve. All pro QBs do. They get baited into throwing the pick by experienced DBs, they tend to look at their primary too long or not look off coverage. That kind of stuff comes with experience.

 

I do think Tebow can throw for 3200 to 3500 yds a year, and then add another 600 to 800 yds rushing. That's an effective NFL QB, provided that he can be consistent. And he's going to be murder on the other team near the goal line. DEN will have a higher red zone percentage than average because of what Tebow brings to the table. He won't be P Manning. He won't be Brady. That's not his game. But that doesn't mean what he does do at QB isn't successful at the NFL level.

 

The kid can start, play well, and win at this level. If you haven't seen that yet, you haven't been watching objectively.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Bronco Billy