Tebow

[JUMbotron]

Too small a sample size to make any sort of layered assessment. 2 games. He's had 20 or 25 NFL offensive possessions. I have to admit I thought he would be sort of overwhelmed - no, totally overwhelmed - in that road game at Oakland. Houston? Meh, they even let Mark Sanchez go for 315 & 3.

 

Tebow is anything but overwhelmed.

Edited January 1, 2011 by JUMbotron

[Bronco Billy]

Call me a skeptic, I've seen enough QB's come out of college who were the next big thing, only to end up a nobody. He was drafted 27th, and everyone but Denver thought it was a reach.

 

Tebow was a reach in the 1st. Are you implying that QBs drafted after the 1st round have no chance of succeeding in the NFL?

[Bronco Billy]

You know you're effing crazy. You realize that don't you? Could it occur to you that someone could simply think you're wrong without somehow being morally corrupt or abused as a child. Because really, you're freaking wrong a lot.

 

Any you may not be wrong about whether Tebow is going to be a good pro QB, but I can assure you that you're certainly wrong about why I think what I do. But I've found that's sort of a habit of yours. Someone disagrees with you, so you assume they're immoral. Again, see the pot-split thread.

 

"I can only assume he's asking us because he knows it's sleazy and wants our approval"

"Maybe he just wants to know if it's a good deal or not."

"I can only assume he's asking us because he knows it's sleazy and wants our approval"

"Maybe he just wants to know if it's a good deal or not."

"I mean, why would he be asking us if he wasn't trying to pull some underhanded stunt?"

"Maybe he just wants to know if it's a good deal or not. Do you see anywhere where he asks if this is sleazy or not?"

"The only conclusion I can think of is that he's morally corrupt and just wants us all to say it's OK."

 

Let's start with the "irrational 1 yard line" comment. Listen, I was happy to just focus on his two starts. You were the one who brought up his "complete body of work". So I looked it up. And you know what I found? vs Jax 2 carries for 2 yards zero TDs, vs SF 2 carries for 1 yard, 1 TD. vs KC, the stat line I mentioned above. Great, so he scored from the 5 against the Jets and averaged almost 4 yds a carry on 6 carries. My freaking bad. But that's it. That's the whole body of work I was ignoring. 2 QB sneaks from the 1, 1 3yd TD pass, and a TD run from the 5. All where he was run out there as a change of pace. That is the massive body of evidence that my tunnel vision of seeing two decent but hardly earth shattering starts was leaving out.

 

Does this mean he sucks? Absolutely not. But anyone not drunk on man-love can't see that and say, "Oh yeah, we've found our guy." Again, answer the bit about McCoy. Either that or continue to pretend that I'm just lobbing baseless rants of a god-less heathen.

 

Now, are you actually reading what I'm posting or simply counting the times I mention Jesus. Because you're completely missing the point.

 

For the last effing time. I hope Tebow just flat-out tears it up. I neither wish that he would fail nor do I wish that you'll be proven wrong. Honestly, I have no reason to root against that and it would be pretty damned petty for anyone to hope someone fails at their life's work just so they're not proven wrong on a message board. So ask god to help you find it in your heart to not be such an a-hole as to assume that everyone who is arguing with you would be suck a dick. Especially when they've very clearly stated that they're not rooting against him.

 

The whole freaking Jesus thing is... Seriously? Do I have to again repeat this? Because I've explained it like 5 times already.

Honestly, get a freaking grip.

 

Why do you hate Jesus?

[detlef]

Why do you hate Jesus?

Debate 101 by Bronco Billy

 

1) Lead off by saying everyone is stupid and make an argument. Maybe a good one, maybe not.

 

2) Pull stats out of context when your initial points are refuted

 

3) Accuse opponent of fixating on small details when they, in turn, refute your second batch of stats. Stats that you actually brought into the debate.

 

4) Ignore the substantive nature of anything the other person is saying and any questions directed towards you and, if need be, start questioning your opponents moral compass or imply sinister agenda. It doesn't matter what the other person is actually saying. Just pretend they're saying something that fits into your argument. This last part is very important.

 

5) When this last tactic is called out as baseless and cowardly, ignore that and "lighten things up" with a joke that someone already made. This will distance you from the inane position you've taken and align you with those who have better managed to stay above the fray. That way, after you've attacked someone's character for no other reason than they've disagreed with you, you can play the, "hey, it's cool man" card.

[redrumjuice]

Are you implying that QBs drafted after the 1st round have no chance of succeeding in the NFL?

 

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

[Bronco Billy]

Debate 101 by Bronco Billy

 

1) Lead off by saying everyone is stupid and make an argument. Maybe a good one, maybe not.

 

2) Pull stats out of context when your initial points are refuted

 

3) Accuse opponent of fixating on small details when they, in turn, refute your second batch of stats. Stats that you actually brought into the debate.

 

4) Ignore the substantive nature of anything the other person is saying and any questions directed towards you and, if need be, start questioning your opponents moral compass or imply sinister agenda. It doesn't matter what the other person is actually saying. Just pretend they're saying something that fits into your argument. This last part is very important.

 

5) When this last tactic is called out as baseless and cowardly, ignore that and "lighten things up" with a joke that someone already made. This will distance you from the inane position you've taken and align you with those who have better managed to stay above the fray. That way, after you've attacked someone's character for no other reason than they've disagreed with you, you can play the, "hey, it's cool man" card.

 

Holy crap. Stick to the "can't bench Jesus" argument. You're better off with making that argument than this kind of crap. This is exactly why I abandoned the discussion with you.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

 

Then why even bring up when he was drafted? If he would have been drafted in the 2nd round and then would be starting right now, would that affect your opinion?

 

Wow. Some of you guys are really out there. One guys quoting every college stat as though it means anything at the NFL level, another ignoring actual performance and the specifics of it in favor of dismissing solid stats for a rookie QB and going with the jersey sales and Christianity angle, and now draft position as though it were any indicator once the guy is rostered and now is starting.

[Trojanmojo]

I think Tebow will be the best QB to come out of the draft this year.I t might not happen next season but it will happen.I know I know too slow funky throwing motion.Seems to me he ran past a lot of folks last year.OOps forgot everyones faster in the NFL guess he will just have to run over them ala Larry Czonka. The kid had the highest passing profenicy in the history of the SEC.Over QBs Like all 3 Mannings,Weurfell,Cutler,Shuler who was highly touted and I believe had a good throwing mechanics who was a bust.I just get so tired of listening to the so called experts who are already writing him off.Sure his throwing motion is different but I can gaurentee there have been plenty of others who didn't measure up to

the experts expectations.Who by the way the closest they have probably gotten to a football field is the 50 yard line with a can of Brew in there hand.The kid is tough smart and willing to do anything to succseed.

So I look for him not only to succseed but to be the best to come out this year.

Ok rip away

 

I'm still not convinced. 2 okay games against mediocre defenses are not quite enough to win me over. I've been more won-over by what Colt McCoy and Sam Bradford have done thus far. Tebow may very well become a good pro-QB, but I highly doubt he'll be better than Bradford.

[gilthorp]

He will be a very serviceable fantasy QB. As a pro, I'm not sure he'll be any better than let's say...Josh Freeman.

[rustycolts]

I'm still not convinced. 2 okay games against mediocre defenses are not quite enough to win me over. I've been more won-over by what Colt McCoy and Sam Bradford have done thus far. Tebow may very well become a good pro-QB, but I highly doubt he'll be better than Bradford.

When I posted that in Feb.I was just really getting sick of all the Tebow hate coming out of the talking heads mouths.I still firmly believe he will be the best Qb to come out of this past years draft over the course of his career.Though Bradford will certainly give him a run for his money but I think in the end Tebow will be the better QB.At any rate I think he will prove that he can play at the NFL level and won't have to play T.E. or H-back as some of the folks stated at the begining of this thread.

[JUMbotron]

Tim Tebow could stiff-arm Satan.

[redrumjuice]

ooh, are you going to attempt to discuss this with the idiot?

 

Is this a personal attack? You've been reported.

[piratesownninjas]

Good lord...

[Chargerz]

Whether Tebow makes it as a starter in the NFL or not, I DO fear him tomorrow against a San Diego defense that last week was as lackluster as I've ever seen it. His mobility will probably play havoc with the Bolts D all day.

[Turf Smurf]

How well can he pass and run with a broken leg? Ribs? Concussion?

Already been shown and done.

[Turf Smurf]

I mean, let's say those first two games were against Pitt and Baltimore? He would have gotten his ass kicked.

 

And I'm stepping out on a limb?

[Turf Smurf]

You're funny.

 

For starters, the whole jersey sales and Jesus-love thing is absolutely important to the conversation. If you could read what I'm saying and not just run to, "must defend Tebow" knee-jerk, you'd see that. I'm not going to bother repeating myself. Just be a dear and go back and look. If this coach doesn't want to be the guy who benched Jesus, he's going to look elsewhere for a gig.

 

Hell, look in the mirror, you've caught the bug. You're so hell bent on saying you've seen enough that you're skewing stats. 8 TDs in 76 touches really looks good. Until you realize the other stats behind those numbers. Because, all season long, he's been getting put in the game with the team inside the 5! I mean, he had a pretty efficient outing vs KC. 3 touches, 2 TDs. Of course, his stats on the day were 1 completion for 3 yards and 2 rushes for 2 yards. And that's pretty much how he got all his TDs prior to these past weekends. In other words, he was a change of pace back. Not the first time a change of pace guy had particularly nice looking stats.

 

So, these aren't red zone numbers. These are, ball on the one yard line numbers.

 

As for the pap in bold. By god you're a freaking coward. Rather than actually argue with someone, you have to project some sinister crap on them to make a point. You pulled that crap in the thread about the pot-split and you're pulling it here. Be a freaking man!

 

I've already said that I'm not saying he's doomed to fail and I've already said that I'm not rooting against him. He seems like a great kid. Honestly, I'm not a hater. I want good people to succeed. If you go back and see what I wrote, you'll see that I simply said that, given the man-love that followed him into the league, the fact that he's looked decent against two very average teams is going to get completely blown out of proportion and everyone in Denver is going to start assuming he's going to lead them to the promised land. In fact, you're making my point right this very second. By trying to make the fact that he's converted a few QB sneaks as further examples of greatness.

 

That's it. And I think that's going to make a coach who isn't as impressed as you are think twice about taking the job. Because they know that they're going to be benching Jesus which, wise or not, is going to piss off the fans. If that same coach goes to Cleveland and doesn't like McCoy, he benches him and moves on. There may be grumbles but it's not like people will be looking for his head the way they would if a new guy came in and made Tebow fight for the starters role. And can you honestly say that Tebow has proven any more than McCoy?

 

3 Jesus's, 1 god, and man-love.....are you a freaking mormon...baptist? take your religion and.....keep it to yourself.

[Turf Smurf]

I loved Danny Wuerffel...in college. I loved Rex Grossman...in college. I liked Chris Leak...in college. I didn't think that any of them would be able to be successful in the NFL (although Rex is apparently loved by skeletor).

 

Tebow is the only UF QB I've ever thought would be successful in the NFL. Besides, Tebow is dreamy.

Ignore him in your draft at your peril.

[Turf Smurf]

I like BB's post there. I hope the Broncos give him a chance next year. I'd like to see some extended game action from him.

 

I think the thing with Tebow is he's one of those guys people don't like because he's almost too good to be true. He's humble. He works hard. He is clearly a leader and a winner. He's not a self promoter. He believes in God and isn't afraid to say it.

 

A guy like this scares us, because nobody can have it all without some kind of flaw. So we create flaws, or accentuate some, or believe that he has flaws because someone else told us he does.

 

Heck, we all have flaws, and every QB in the NFL has flaws. Me, I'm gonna root for the guy. We NEED this guy. The NFL NEEDS this guy.

 

This guy is what is RIGHT about sports. Heck, and life for that matter.

 

Chef sense.....hmmmmm

[Turf Smurf]

Debate 101 by Bronco Billy

 

1) Lead off by saying everyone is stupid and make an argument. Maybe a good one, maybe not.

 

2) Pull stats out of context when your initial points are refuted

 

3) Accuse opponent of fixating on small details when they, in turn, refute your second batch of stats. Stats that you actually brought into the debate.

 

4) Ignore the substantive nature of anything the other person is saying and any questions directed towards you and, if need be, start questioning your opponents moral compass or imply sinister agenda. It doesn't matter what the other person is actually saying. Just pretend they're saying something that fits into your argument. This last part is very important.

 

5) When this last tactic is called out as baseless and cowardly, ignore that and "lighten things up" with a joke that someone already made. This will distance you from the inane position you've taken and align you with those who have better managed to stay above the fray. That way, after you've attacked someone's character for no other reason than they've disagreed with you, you can play the, "hey, it's cool man" card.

Nancy Pelosi, right?

[Turf Smurf]

Is this a personal attack? You've been reported.

Are you serious? Is there such a place to do that? It's not www.whiners.com is it?

[Turf Smurf]

Whether Tebow makes it as a starter in the NFL or not, I DO fear him tomorrow against a San Diego defense that last week was as lackluster as I've ever seen it. His mobility will probably play havoc with the Bolts D all day.

The off-season buck stops here.

[detlef]

The fact that guys are saying anyone who isn't sold on Tebow "hates" him. The fact that BB insists on ignoring anything substantive in my posts and pretends this is about me being an athiest. These just make my point.

 

That being that people are so predisposed to want him to succeed so much that they're willing to look at decent stats and say they've seen enough to know he'll be great and that anyone who doesn't see the same thing must be hateful or deluded.

 

Again, his stats where he's actually been behind center the entire game have been OK but not great and those were put up against the 21st and 30th ranked teams in points allowed. In fairness, Oak is ranked very high in passing D and reasonably high in Total D, but that doesn't change the fact that he went 8 for 16 and 138 yards in a game they lost by more than 2 TDs. And you know what, I'd even look past the average stats if he'd won both games, but he didn't. And let's not pretend that Houston hasn't made a habit of choking games away down the stretch. They've won one game since November 1st.

 

His total stats are very much helped by the highly specific situations he was put in. It's just like TD vulture RB. If you keep getting put in the game when you're team is on the 1 yard line, you're going to look pretty damned efficient in terms of TDs to touches. Don't you think other QBs TDs to touches ration would benefit if they kept on getting thrown in the game with their team inside the 5 yard line?

 

So, again, this doesn't mean that he's failed or he will fail. It just means that if it was anyone else, people would say, "pretty good for a rookie," and leave it at that.

 

But none of this matters. All rational thought gets thrown out the window and he's judged on a different scale. A scale we save for those who we really hope succeed more than your typical player.

 

And again, I appreciate wanting him to succeed. Why wouldn't you? He seems like a genuinely good guy. Hell, I'm an atheist and he's exactly the type of religious person I like. One who just seems genuinely good and happens to find that goodness in god. I honestly don't get tired of these types of people. Why would I? Paul B (who I think is isleseeya here) is a friend on FB. Basically every day, he posts some positive message that is almost always linked to god. And, despite the fact that I don't believe in his religion, I always enjoy reading them because they're just undeniably good. How could I not? He's saying "cherish those you love" or some such. Really, I don't hate religious people.

 

I do get tired of guys who seem like selfish a-holes 24/7 and then point to god when they score. You know, the Michael Irvin Christians who bang whores, do a ton of blow, and wear hugh diamond-encrusted crosses around their necks. I do get tired of having morality shoved down my throat by a group of people who then turn around and defend their church from attack when said church does deplorable things.

 

There's a hugh effing difference.

 

So, I'm not afraid of his goodness or repulsed by his goodness, I'm just concerned that the next coach who comes in is going to up against a wall because, unlike any other QB who looked OK as a rookie but still has a ton to prove, Tebow has a fan base who will fight you tooth and nail if you dare suggest he may not be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Which means, if this coach doesn't like what he sees in camp and/or, likes someone better, he's going to be on the hot seat before the season starts.

 

And you guys have done a great job of proving that exact thing.

 

You are now free to return to your regularly scheduled pretending I've said something I haven't.

[JUMbotron]

Only a Tebow chat thread can include names like Jesus, Satan, Nancy Pelosi, Michael Irvin, and Danny Wuerffel. Someone's old Sunday school teacher got accused of a sex crime somewhere in there too.

[untateve]

Only a Tebow chat thread can include names like Jesus, Satan, Nancy Pelosi, Michael Irvin, and Danny Wuerffel. Someone's old Sunday school teacher got accused of a sex crime somewhere in there too.

 

Danny was such a good boy. He had the perfect personality to deal with a coach like spurrier..