Ursa Majoris Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 (edited) Some comments: Red card One - thoroughly deserved, the Italian swung an elbow. Instant dismissal for serious foul play, no question. Red card Two - hmmmm. That tackle was late and it was right on the ankle with the ball long gone. The ref was no more than four feet away, looking right down at it. Here's Law 12 of the FIFA Laws of the Game: Sending-off offences A player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences: 1. is guilty of serious foul play 2. is guilty of violent conduct 3. spits at an opponent or any other person 4. denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area) 5. denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick 6. uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures 7. receives a second caution in the same match Now, it's debatable what's foul play and what's SERIOUS foul play, so let's look at International Football Board Decision # 4, part of the same Law 12: Decision 4 A tackle, which endangers the safety of an opponent, must be sanctioned as serious foul play. So, did that tackle "endanger the safety of the opponent"? I suggest it did - it was reckless and that is an automatic red card. Also, it's important to note that there is no "intent" clause any more - the onus is 100% on the tackler to avoid crunching into the opponent's leg. Red Card Three: A complete nonsense, the US player got the ball and made minimal contact with the Italian. The game itself was outstanding, the US did really well and showed Italy up for what they are - pretenders. On the evidence so far, Ghana are the standout team in this group, with the best ball skills. They destroyed the Czechs earlier and could have run in seven goals. Edited June 18, 2006 by Ursa Majoris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Do the Italians have a reputation of being divers and fakers like that? Are people around the world as appaled as we are about all the diving the Italians did in yesterdays game? Can a player be penalizing for taking dives? Are people around the globe talking about the officiating in yesterdays game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montster Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Do the Italians have a reputation of being divers and fakers like that? Are people around the world as appaled as we are about all the diving the Italians did in yesterdays game? Can a player be penalizing for taking dives? Are people around the globe talking about the officiating in yesterdays game? from talking to my friends who are really into soccer, yes, the italians have that reputation. one of my friends, whose family is italian, won't root for them because he's embarrassed. here's what some of the world press is saying. the bbc from the story: Seconds later, De Rossi disgraced himself with a sickening, needless elbow on Brian McBride and was given his marching orders. It was the undoubted low point of a World Cup that has tried so hard to entertain. times of london i love this part: Pablo Mastroeni lunged into a two-footed tackle on the shin of Andrea Pirlo — so late and so vicious, it was a wonder there was no breaking of bone — and was dismissed. come on! was this guy watching the same game? and then he glosses over pope's red card, essentially saying he deserved it, too. germany's der spiegel from the story: All of the red cards handed out by Uruguayan referee Jorge Larrionda were justified and he maintained control of the match despite the at times violent play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Do the Italians have a reputation of being divers and fakers like that? Are people around the world as appaled as we are about all the diving the Italians did in yesterdays game? Can a player be penalizing for taking dives? Are people around the globe talking about the officiating in yesterdays game? In short, yes, absolutely. The Italians are not alone in their despicable shenanigans but they are acknowledged as the #1 in the world at diving. And yes, FIFA mandate that diving be punished with a yellow card. The problem is that it is so difficult to see when expertly done in a fast moving game. The ref gets a completely different view from the multiple angles we get on TV. IMO, FIFA should review every game and suspend players that dive even if they are not caught during the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Something is very very wrong with the officiating if a guy who intentionally elbows a dude full on in the grill gets the same penalty as a guy who is running full speed for the ball, hits it, but also accidently trips another player. If FIFA had any nuts at all, they would DQ Italy for this WC because of the flagrant elbow and the excessive diving. Otherwise, this WC has zero credibility... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Something is very very wrong with the officiating if a guy who intentionally elbows a dude full on in the grill gets the same penalty as a guy who is running full speed for the ball, hits it, but also accidently trips another player. If FIFA had any nuts at all, they would DQ Italy for this WC because of the flagrant elbow and the excessive diving. Otherwise, this WC has zero credibility... I don't see much difference with any other sport in that there are limited sanctions on the field that can be applied by the ref. I would also say that basketball is worse than soccer with it's "flopping", which seems to be an engrained and integral part of the game...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Sacrebleu Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Tackle studs first is a red card penalty. Case closed. It seems like an unduly harsh penalty, and one that cripples a team. But those are the rules. Thierry Henry was sent off for the same offense in 2002, the first WC in which the refs were given the SPECIFIC instructions to red card such a foul, which was a contributing factor to france's meltdown in that world cup. Most of you guys have zero objectivity. The ref called a strict but fair game. The only debate is should he have issued that second yellow to Pope. And obviously he could have gone either way, neither being objectionable, unless you have a rooting interest. I'm starting to wonder if any of you momos were on 93rd and 3rd when the US played the Czech republic: some idiots at the bar were cheering when the Czech striker was injured, and cheered even more when he was taken off the field. And Spain: a guy argues with an umpire's call, and a guy tries to kill an opposing player by throwing an object 98 miles per hour at his head also get the same penalty, so let's be a little objective in our outrage shall we? BTW I do agree that the Italians are insuferable divers. I really really hate the way they play soccer. The french commentators call it displays of "Italian cinema". south america is the only other place that gets that apelation as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Tackle studs first is a red card penalty. Case closed. It seems like an unduly harsh penalty, and one that cripples a team. But those are the rules. Thierry Henry was sent off for the same offense in 2002, the first WC in which the refs were given the SPECIFIC instructions to red card such a foul, which was a contributing factor to france's meltdown in that world cup. Most of you guys have zero objectivity. The ref called a strict but fair game. The only debate is should he have issued that second yellow to Pope. And obviously he could have gone either way, neither being objectionable, unless you have a rooting interest. I'm starting to wonder if any of you momos were on 93rd and 3rd when the US played the Czech republic: some idiots at the bar were cheering when the Czech striker was injured, and cheered even more when he was taken off the field. And Spain: a guy argues with an umpire's call, and a guy tries to kill an opposing player by throwing an object 98 miles per hour at his head also get the same penalty, so let's be a little objective in our outrage shall we? BTW I do agree that the Italians are insuferable divers. I really really hate the way they play soccer. The french commentators call it displays of "Italian cinema". south america is the only other place that gets that apelation as well. Good info here. The Germans are also big time divers, probably due to playing in the Italian League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I am mad I missed this thread over the weekend so I apologize if I reapeat anything said already... Great Game by the Americans who played like they should have in the first game... Kasey Keller showed that he truly is one of the best keepers in the world... Dempsey was very impressive, played like he had no fear and wasn't intimidated... Landon Donovan was somewhat quiet again, I am starting to think he is overrated... McBride is one tough player but I cannot believe they didn't use their final sub to take him out and put in Eddie Johnson in the final 15 minutes...he was giving you NOTHING in the end of the game...offensively or defensively... I think the US are in some trouble againt Ghana without Pope AND Mastroeni in the back... I will be at a local bar on thursday hopefully not watching the last game for the US in the WC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I think the US are in some trouble againt Ghana without Pope AND Mastroeni in the back... Ghana may be the best team in this group. I think this will be an outstanding game coming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Ghana may be the best team in this group. I think this will be an outstanding game coming up. They are the most athletic team in the group...their speed and size will pose HUGH problems for a guy like Steve Cherundulo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I am mad I missed this thread over the weekend so I apologize if I reapeat anything said already... Great Game by the Americans who played like they should have in the first game... Kasey Keller showed that he truly is one of the best keepers in the world... Dempsey was very impressive, played like he had no fear and wasn't intimidated... Landon Donovan was somewhat quiet again, I am starting to think he is overrated... McBride is one tough player but I cannot believe they didn't use their final sub to take him out and put in Eddie Johnson in the final 15 minutes...he was giving you NOTHING in the end of the game...offensively or defensively... I think the US are in some trouble againt Ghana without Pope AND Mastroeni in the back... I will be at a local bar on thursday hopefully not watching the last game for the US in the WC Solid points especially the ones about Dempsey, McBride and the lack of a sub at the end, and how the Americans playing played in this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Pope was horrible. The US actually played better after he was thrown out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Pope was horrible. The US actually played better after he was thrown out... True, he was not playing well but his experience will be missed against Ghana who is bigger and faster than our defense will be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montster Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I am mad I missed this thread over the weekend so I apologize if I reapeat anything said already... Great Game by the Americans who played like they should have in the first game... Kasey Keller showed that he truly is one of the best keepers in the world... Dempsey was very impressive, played like he had no fear and wasn't intimidated... Landon Donovan was somewhat quiet again, I am starting to think he is overrated... McBride is one tough player but I cannot believe they didn't use their final sub to take him out and put in Eddie Johnson in the final 15 minutes...he was giving you NOTHING in the end of the game...offensively or defensively... I think the US are in some trouble againt Ghana without Pope AND Mastroeni in the back... I will be at a local bar on thursday hopefully not watching the last game for the US in the WC if only the americans had come out like this against czech ... arena said that after the 80th minute, the strategy was to preserve the tie. he left mcbride in because he effectively became a defender, so he saw no point in subbing in eddie johnson or brian ching. but with the entire team running on fumes, i don't know why he wouldn't sub in a fresh defender, but whatever. if the u.s. plays like we did against italy, we can beat ghana. i hate having to root for italy against the czechs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 arena said that after the 80th minute, the strategy was to preserve the tie. he left mcbride in because he effectively became a defender, so he saw no point in subbing in eddie johnson or brian ching. but with the entire team running on fumes, i don't know why he wouldn't sub in a fresh defender, but whatever. Was he watching the same game I was? All I saw was McBride walking around midfield the second half... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 (edited) Arena is as about much of an American as any of the players that suited up for France are French... Edited June 19, 2006 by spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montster Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Was he watching the same game I was? All I saw was McBride walking around midfield the second half... my mistake. they just re-ran the report i was paraphrasing from espn2. they were playing to protect the tie, but arena left mcbride in because, as a more experienced player, he'd be better if needed on defense. i still think putting eddie johnson in could've stirred things up enough for the u.s. to get a scoring chance and make their life immensely easier for the third game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Was he watching the same game I was? All I saw was McBride walking around midfield the second half... I saw him a lot not finishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I saw him a lot not finishing. I have never been a big McBride fan...not a very skillful player, just a strong guy who's good in the air... I won't be mossing him in the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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