Zeke 1982 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Yep, Vick's winning percentage is right up there with Plummer's since Plummer joined the Broncos. Vick, Brady, Manning, McNabb, Plummer - it's a plethora of superb QB talent. Of course based on winning percentage, the best QB in the league is Big Ben. I guess that proves winning percentage is not everything. Although, if I needed to win a playoff game I am sure as hell going to want Big Ben as my QB not Vick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I know this is probably not the right mindset here, but I rate players according to FF and not the real world. If they don't help me win FF games then it doesn't matter how they are viewed by those that do not play FF. Last year, for 4 leagues: QB Ranking Overall11 277 109 1412 17 This year so far: QB Ranking Overall6 94 69 119 9 Any QB that is in the top 10 for QB's is fine by me. And if they are in the top 20 overall in my leagues even better! I don't really care how he gets the points. I'm not a Vick 'lover', but then, I am not a Vick 'hater' either. All I want is my QB to get me decent points each week... don't care if they win the game or not... just rack up them FF points for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I'm not a Vick 'lover', but then, I am not a Vick 'hater' either. All I want is my QB to get me decent points each week... don't care if they win the game or not... just rack up them FF points for me. That's valid reasoning. But for Vick to actually be capable of being a a starting FF QB, your league has to devalue QBs - most probably using 4 pt/pass TD and 1 pt/passing yard. Then Vick can compete. In one of my leagues, all TDs are 6 pts, and in the other passing TDs are 5 pts and points are given for completions and taken for incompletions. In those 2 leagues, Vick has only cracked the top 10 one year - and that was as the #10 QB in both. The rest of the years, he's a bench player in both leagues, including this year where he is the #13 QB in one and barely #10 in the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 That's valid reasoning. But for Vick to actually be capable of being a a starting FF QB, your league has to devalue QBs - most probably using 4 pt/pass TD and 1 pt/passing yard. Then Vick can compete. In the 1st league.... 4 pts per passing TD.... 1 pt per 20 yds. (Worst overall finish of the four.) In the other 3......... 6 pts per passing TD... 1 pt per 20 yds. In none of them are completions/incompletions involved. Fumbles and INT's are. Without looking, I would assume his rushing totals are the equalizer to maintain a top overall position. The main thing for me ... is that last year he finished the season no lower than 27th overall in any of the four mentioned leagues, and one of them is a Dynasty League with IDP's. That has to make him a viable starter wouldn't you think? I do see your point when you look at completions/incompletions as part of the scoring.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 What in the hell are you talking about? He has no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 The main thing for me ... is that last year he finished the season no lower than 27th overall in any of the four mentioned leagues, and one of them is a Dynasty League with IDP's. That has to make him a viable starter wouldn't you think? Only if you use QB as a flex position. Even if he is the 27th highest scorer overall, that doesn't do any good as a viable starter if he is the 13th best QB in a 12 team league, or the 18th best QB in a 14 team league. It's all about relative value, and Vick's isn't particularly high amongst QBs most years, again unless the league scoring devalues QB passing numbers or a league starts 2 QBs/flex QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Only if you use QB as a flex position. Even if he is the 27th highest scorer overall, that doesn't do any good as a viable starter if he is the 13th best QB in a 12 team league, or the 18th best QB in a 14 team league. It's all about relative value, and Vick's isn't particularly high amongst QBs most years, again unless the league scoring devalues QB passing numbers or a league starts 2 QBs/flex QB. Hmmm.... wasn't even looking at it that way. I may have to rethink this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 this made me think...has there ever been a starting quarterback that moved over to a starting RB position? Not a starting qb in the NFL, but Michael Robinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 All I'm saying is he wins. It might not be statistically pretty, and he might not be an old school prototypical QB, but none can say he doesn't win games. Sportscolumn.com: "in games since 2001 that Michael Vick has started, the team is 30-13-1 with three postseason bids. Compare that to Tom Brady (50-21), Peyton Manning (47-22), or Donovan McNabb (52-20) over the same span and you'll see that the four QBs are not so dissimilar. In fact, Vick's winning percentage (.697) is better than Peyton's (.681) and just below the NFL's golden boy Brady and the Super Bowl champion Patriots (.704)." Yet all I hear is just how bad he is. People need to think outside-the-box, break the mold of what is and is not a good QB. Can't argue with his success. And though this may be a tad off-topic, Vick/Atlanta ARE doing quite well with their read-option this year. There are two problems with their success this year, though: - if NFL defenses figure out how to stop the run and make them pass, they are in trouble. - if Vick gets hurt, they have NO practice time with a standard offense, which at the very least sets them back 2 or 3 weeks while everyone gets on the same page in a traditional offense. I think the first issue is likely to cost them a few games - Atlanta has shown that they can demolish most average-or-worse defenses by running; their run game vs a good run D (or a team with decent DBs that can sell out vs the run and minimize whatever damage might be caused by Vick and his receivers) is a matchup that would be VERY interesting to watch. The second issue could very well cost them the season should Vick be out for any length of time - which, despite all the gnashing of teeth over Vick's style, doesn't really look likely - he's missed a game here or there, but aside from his broken leg, hasn't really had a tendency to be injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 Sorry I ment to say Vick is like Superman but at the QB position or like God but is in the NFL and not the Bible, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Sorry I ment to say Vick is like Superman but at the QB position or like God but is in the NFL and not the Bible, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Sorry I ment to say Vick is like Superman but at the QB position or like God but is in the NFL and not the Bible, yet. do you have a learning disability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Waterman is doing some excellent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Waterman is doing some excellent Vick posts are always good bait, since it is pushed incessantly down football fans' throats about how great a player Vick is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 I love him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Vick posts are always good bait, since it is pushed incessantly down football fans' throats about how great a player Vick is. Meh...we get way more nut sack swinging on Favre, than Vick. And while it was warranted a few years back...not so much anymore. I could do with A LOT LESS Peyton too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mutine Bullfrog Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 How 'bout this statement: Waterman is an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mutine Bullfrog Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Not that I wanted to get sucked into this, but what is everyone's problem with Vick. I don't like this overused term, but there are so many "haters" at the huddle. He wins. Period. Can anyone refute that? What has he won?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 What has he won?? A lot of games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Meh...we get way more nut sack swinging on Favre, than Vick. And while it was warranted a few years back...not so much anymore. I could do with A LOT LESS Peyton too. At least Favre is one of the all-time greats, and Peyton is on his way. Vick is all untapped potential so far. But I agree - IMO a compelling game should sell itself without the Dixie Chicks doing the national anthem or the network it's on playing it up as "Urlacher vs Lewis" or "Manning vs Brady" (begging the question, exactly WHEN are those two players in direct competition with each other? ) If you've got a good game between two evenly-matched teams (they don't even necessarily have to be "good" - as long as they are of similar caliber, the game stands a chance of being entertaining, though I admit having something at stake gives a game a bit more cachet from the get-go), it should be fine on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 At least Favre is one of the all-time greats, Peyton is on his way. Vick is all untapped potential so far.It'll happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 they should run a backfield with Vick, Dunn and Schaub..... and although it would be stupid....but it's the best way to get your best playmakers and best QB out there at the same time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 What has he won?? What has Peyton won? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 they should run a backfield with Vick, Dunn and Schaub..... and although it would be stupid....but it's the best way to get your best playmakers and best QB out there at the same time... What they should do is draft a few Antwaan Randle-El/Brad Smith/Arnaz Battle types and go with a single-wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 What has Peyton won? A couple of League MVPs. Not to mention setting a couple of NFL passing records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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