Clubfoothead Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 i have to say though, it's pretty amusing to come in here and see a bunch of out of shape internet warriors talking about what Rosie O'Donnell 6'8", 250 lb. black men in peak physical condition are. hmm let's see, carmelo vs. furd or JJ in a throwdown? call me crazy, but my money is on the "big floppy smile" I could kick their asses with a foot of colon tied behind my back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I just heard - Carmelo Anthony got 15 games, Nate Robinson and JR Smith got 10 each. Mardy Collins gets 6 games and Jared Jeffires gets 4 games. One interesting sidelight that's being played up quite a bit here in NY - just before the incident, as Marcus Camby was shooting free throws, Isiah Thomas can be seen smiling on the sidelines and mouthing to Carmel Anthony, "Stay out of the paint". Several Knicks afterwards, including Thomas, said in their post-game comments that they were ticked that the Nuggests still had some of their starters in the game at that point (up 20 or so, under 2 minutes to play), so it does make you wonder if the initial hard foul on Smith was coach's orders. There's also some speculation that the reason the Nuggest' regulars were still in the game is because Nuggets coach George Karl, a close friend of Larry Brown, was trying to rub it in Thomas' face. I love it - eff Isiah Thomas, I cannot stand the guy. I love Karl sticking it to him by leaving he starters in for a blowout at MSG. Karl is tight with Larry Brown, so he stuck it to Isiah a bit, so what. Isiah obviously bears some responsibility for this. Isiah Thomas has run the Knicks into the ground like no one in sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 how does the nuggets organization get the same fine as the knicks when there's evidence this whole thing was premeditated by thomas telling his team to take flagrant fouls because they didn't like getting their ass kicked? Stern said he did not discipline Thomas because he only acted on what he considered to be "definitive information". As far as fining the Knicks and Nuggets the same amount - let's face it, a $500k fine is unlikely to hurt either organization financially all that much, so it's as much symbolic as anything. And given that the evidence against Thomas is as much speculation as anything - yeah, he told Anthony to stay out of the paint, but he could argue he was just kidding around, whatever, it's not enough to determine with any degree of certainty that it was premeditated or that he ordered his guys to commit a hard foul, IMO. Not saying he didn't do it, just saying there's not enough there to penalize. Stern said the organizational fines are a way of letting the rest of the league know that he's serious about putting an end to this kind of stuff. Given that the fine is symbolic as much as anything, and given that the evidence to punish Thomas more severely is pretty thin, I don't really see that much of an issue with the two organizations getting fined the same amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 NBA = Big Hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 (edited) Stern said he did not discipline Thomas because he only acted on what he considered to be "definitive information". As far as fining the Knicks and Nuggets the same amount - let's face it, a $500k fine is unlikely to hurt either organization financially all that much, so it's as much symbolic as anything. And given that the evidence against Thomas is as much speculation as anything - yeah, he told Anthony to stay out of the paint, but he could argue he was just kidding around, whatever, it's not enough to determine with any degree of certainty that it was premeditated or that he ordered his guys to commit a hard foul, IMO. Not saying he didn't do it, just saying there's not enough there to penalize. gimme a f'n break. crystal clear video of him warning carmelo to stay out of the paint is not "definitive information"? that is absurd. check the look on his face in that video and tell me he's horsing around. edit: video here Edited December 18, 2006 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I read a commentary this morning bashing Thomas for his part in this that wondered why they simply didin't just play better rather than making it a point to "punish" teams for beating them so badly on the floor. The author wondered where was the same pride that caused them to act like enforcers as the game comes to end was in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd periods when the other team was building it's 20 pt lead. Apparently Thomas held a grudge against an Indy team that kept scoring on them late in a blowout that may have caused the same goon Collins to commit a hard foul in the next NY/INDY game. I remember a great quote from Parcells when someone (Philly?) was accused of running up the score on the Cowboys. "It's not their job to stop themselves from scoring points. It's OUR job to stop them from scoring points." That's a coach who understands. Stern said he did not discipline Thomas because he only acted on what he considered to be "definitive information". Stern probably knows that the Knicks are definitely going to get punished... if not by the league, they'll be punished by everyone who knows that they are cheap-shot artists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Stern probably knows that the Knicks are definitely going to get punished... if not by the league, they'll be punished by everyone who knows that they are cheap-shot artists. What is that based on? The foul on Smith was a hard foul, probably even a flagrant foul, but I don't know that I'd call it a cheap shot. Look, the Knicks are a very bad basketball team and will remain a very bad basketball team for many years to come due to long-term commitments to guys like Marbury and Francis. But the same mentality that caused Collins to commit that foul on Smith existed on some very good teams like the Bad Boys Pistons or the Ewing/Oakley Knicks of the 90s. This is nothing new, and I doubt that the Knicks are all of a sudden gonna' get some sort of cheap shot reputation around the league, much less be punished by other teams, just because they were on the wrong end of a Carmelo Anthony sucker punch hit-and-run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I remember a great quote from Parcells when someone (Philly?) was accused of running up the score on the Cowboys. "It's not their job to stop themselves from scoring points. It's OUR job to stop them from scoring points." That's a coach who understands. I thought about the same thing. Ultimately, the only people who are owed anything are the paying customers. They come to see, among other things, guys do amazing dunks on breakaways. They come to see a game. Why deny the customer a few minutes of actual playing by sitting on the ball just so Zeke Thomas doesn't look like the bad coach/gm that he is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 What is that based on? The foul on Smith was a hard foul, probably even a flagrant foul, but I don't know that I'd call it a cheap shot. Probably a flagrant foul? Probably??? His coach basically said, "We're going to foul you"... and then he got dropped to the floor. Does it require a map, a foreign object, and a written letter of intent to definitely be flagrant? I'd say that shot was begging for retaliation. You don't get dropped to the floor for no reason other than the opposing team's frustration and come up smiling and shaking hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 well he DID drop the guy with one....well, can you call that a punch? f'n idiot, getting himself suspended for probably 10 games right at the start of a crucial stretch of the nuggets' season. i have to say though, it's pretty amusing to come in here and see a bunch of out of shape internet warriors talking about what Rosie O'Donnell 6'8", 250 lb. black men in peak physical condition are. hmm let's see, carmelo vs. furd or JJ in a throwdown? call me crazy, but my money is on the "big floppy smile" I never said these guys weren't tough. I'm sure almost any elite athlete would roll me in a fight. I'm also confident that 90% of the people on this board would light your candyass up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I'm also confident that 90% of the people on this board would light your candyass up. sheeeet, sarge's rolly-poly kids would mop the floor with your squirrely little ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 sheeeet, sarge's rolly-poly kids would mop the floor with your squirrely little ass. So now you're calling Sarge's kids fat, boy you're really trying to make friends in this joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 So now you're calling Sarge's kids fat, boy you're really trying to make friends in this joint. no, if memory serves, i believe it was you who called his kids fat, and then started blubbering and backtracking faster than carmelo anthony when he got pissed about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 (edited) I just can't accept Isiah's "you're starters really shouldn't have been on the floor" rationale. He admits that the Knicks had given up. I mean, this is professional sports is it not? If you're team quits before the game is over, you should expect to get your a$$es kicked. To instruct your team to resort to what amounts to violence, because you no longer have the will to compete is totally unacceptable. Edited December 18, 2006 by billay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Probably a flagrant foul? Probably??? His coach basically said, "We're going to foul you"... and then he got dropped to the floor. Does it require a map, a foreign object, and a written letter of intent to definitely be flagrant? I'd say that shot was begging for retaliation. You don't get dropped to the floor for no reason other than the opposing team's frustration and come up smiling and shaking hands. Actually, I think a pretty good way of showing him up would be to get up like it was no thing, point to the scoreboard, and remind him that they wouldn't need to practice punishing guys for running up the score if they weren't always getting embarrassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 no, if memory serves, i believe it was you who called his kids fat, and then started blubbering and backtracking faster than carmelo anthony when he got pissed about it. Never backtracked aren't you supposed to be the closet fabulous that looks like Chandler Bing? Yeah I heard you were a real cool kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I just can't accept Isiah's "you're starters really shouldn't have been on the floor" rationale. He admits that the Knicks had given up. I mean, this is professional sports is it not? If you're team quits before the game is over, you should expect to get your a$$es kicked. To instruct your team to resort to what amounts to violence, because you no longer have the will to compete is totally unaceptable. Yep. Agree. Thomas is a beyatch, and Anthony's a beyatch. Just more reasons why I never watch basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Never backtracked... whatever you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I mean, who in attendance wouldn't have gotten behind the Nuggets clowning Thomas and his goon by calling them out for being heartless female dogs on their home court. You've got to think that pretty much everyone at that game is fed up with Zeke's tired act. Pretty soon you'd have most of the crowd jeering the home team. It would have been a thing of beauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 reaction from espn's marc stein, which i think is pretty much on the money... Instant reactions to the main MSG Fight Night penalties meted out Monday by NBA commissioner David Stern: Carmelo Anthony: 15 games Too many games ... way too many when you hear that Isiah Thomas will sit out zero games. Seven to 10 games was a sensible range to me. Don't forget that Orlando's Keyon Dooling and Seattle's Ray Allen got five and three games, respectively, for a scrap that happened less than a year ago. Melo's sucker punch, when things were finally dying down, was certainly more egregious than what Dooling and Allen did ... but not three or four times worse. (One footnote: Any league suspension longer than 12 games entitles the suspended player to an arbitration hearing, but I'm told Anthony has not yet decided whether he plans to seek a reduction.) Nate Robinson: 10 games Five games less than Melo? Nobody -- not even Anthony -- escalated this thing more than Robinson, needlessly jumping in the faces of multiple Nuggets in his latest attempt to prove how big and tough he is. Little Nate never landed the kind of roundhouse that got Melo in trouble. But his transgressions were right up there with Melo's. And neither Robinson nor Thomas has shown a shred of remorse, either. Anthony, at the very least, issued a lengthy apology. J.R. Smith: 10 games This thing probably never gets near paying customers if not for Robinson. But Smith tumbled into the baseline seats with Nate and was later seen throwing a punch. So even if he was goaded, Smith's actions outweigh any alibis. It should be obvious now that NBA fights will forever be scored differently -- and met with harsher punishments than yesteryear -- because each new fight dredges up memories and footage and commentary about the Malice of Auburn Hills. Mardy Collins: Six games Collins' inexcusable foul on Smith triggered the melee, and a two-handed hit that hard has to be met with a stringent penalty. But I also believe -- taking my cue from insiders with both teams -- that he was merely a rookie doing what he was told by his coach. Doesn't get Collins off the hook, obviously, but it apparently happened the night before, too: Collins was sent into garbage time of the Knicks' blowout loss at Indiana and picked up a flagrant foul in the final two minutes. Isiah Thomas: Zero games Stunning. Absolutely stunning. You can argue that Zeke deserved to be hit hardest of anyone involved, frankly, given the MSG footage clearly showing Thomas telling Anthony that it "wouldn't be a good idea" to venture into the paint. Isn't that proof of premeditation? An unmistakable threat? The Knicks' spin -- Isiah was imploring Melo to show more class than his coach? -- is laughable. Unlike players who lose control in the heat of the moment, I'm quite sure Thomas knew exactly what he was doing. George Karl: Zero games As we said when this first happened, running up the score isn't an NBA crime. So Karl was never at risk for a league suspension. But from his own owner? Yes: Karl should be forced to sit out a game or two. To get back at Isiah on behalf of his North Carolina pal Larry Brown, as the world suspects, is a crime against his own organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 bill simmons chat. good info. Nic (Madison, WI): I watched the replay of the fight about 15 times instead of studying for my exam in an hour. I thought that Nate Robinson should have gotten a stiffer punishment for his role. What do you think? Bill Simmons: Couldn't agree more. Nate Robinson is crazy. Just last week, he nearly got into a fight with Sebastian Telfair for the second time this season. He got in 2 separate fights with teammates last year, including a naked School Ties type fight with Malik Rose in the shower. Bill Simmons: He clearly has Small Man's Complex. I thought he totally escalated the thing ala Ben Wallace with the Artest Melee. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Koby (New York, NY): Basically the way i see it was Melo got 15 games for sucker punching the 15th best player on the NY Knicks...terrible decision for one of the games best players. Bill Simmons: Agreed - bad decision and it hurt all the progress he made on and off the court in 2006. At the same time, it was NOT a sucker punch. They had been jawing at one another and Collins was clearly egging him on. The problem was that Melo punched him, then backed up 75 feet like a wuss. If you're going to punch someone, don't run away afterwards ... that was a cowardly move on his part. With that said, 15 games is ludicrous. Bill Simmons: I also don't like the precedent of punishing guys severely for sticking up for teammates. How does Melo get 15 games and Isiah gets nothing for basically being the John kreese of the situation? MSG had him on tape telling Melo, "You better not go in the paint." a minute later, his worst player cheapshots a Nuggets player. And Isiah gets off scot-free? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tim, santa monica: how is it isiah doesnt get suspended? is a lack of evidence the problem. everything ive read says he was verbally threatening anthony. also, how does this incident further cement his place as worst gm/coach in the league/history? Bill Simmons: I think the brawl was either the highlight of the lowlight of the Isiah Era. I can't decide which one. Bill Simmons: One other thing I loved: In the press conference, did you notice that he did the same creepy, sarcastic laugh that he did after saying that Larry Bird would be "just another good player" if he was black back in 1987? Thought that was interesting. Dan, Orlando: Bill, you said it, it's an outrage that Isiah gets no punishment, and Melo did act like a wuss. How come no one is talking about Melo merely sticking up for his boy? and the fact that it was no sucker punch? I was disappointed that Melo even apologized. Bill Simmons: Agreed. he should have apologized for backpedaling and that's it. Watch the tape. Collins was basically begging for somebody to punch him - it was a cheap foul in the final minute of a blowout, and then he smugly talked trash afterwards and clearly called out Melo. At some point, the NBA needs to realize when people's manhood is being called into question. These are competitive guys with a ton of pride, you can't expect them to constantly turn the other cheek. isiah ordered a cheap shot, Collins delivered, and then Nate Robinson escalated everything... so Melo gets the most games? That's absurd. Patrick, Brockton: Wasn't the biggest upset of the whole fight that Marcus Camby didn't play a larger role?!? Bill Simmons: I thought the biggest upset was Najera not getting involved - I was so disappointed, I've been waiting for 7-8 years to see what he would do in a brawl. He's one of the toughest guys in the league. I just pictured him pulling a Seagal on everyone on the court. They should have suspended him as well for not acting like a real enforcer. Bill Simmons: The other disappointment was that Nene wasn't out there - he's 10X crazier than Nate Robinson. He would have ended up swinging Nate into the stands like a missile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 But from his own owner? Yes: Karl should be forced to sit out a game or two. To get back at Isiah on behalf of his North Carolina pal Larry Brown, as the world suspects, is a crime against his own organization. You can believe that a fellow Tar Heel is going to stick it to Zeke best he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 NBA? sorry, not familiar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxacha Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 if this happened in the nhl, it wouldn't even make the papers. in the nfl, it would probably make the game highlights, but no way is it a lead story. why is it such an outrage if it happens in the nba? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 if this happened in the nhl, it wouldn't even make the papers. in the nfl, it would probably make the game highlights, but no way is it a lead story. why is it such an outrage if it happens in the nba? Used to happen quite a bit more a few years ago, but the rumble at the Palace changed everything. Plus NBA stars are the closest thing to movie, rock stars in all of sports, throw in MSG and the Knicks and it is a story. hilarious, just saw George Karl intervied on ESPN, going off on Isiah Thomas- good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.