Azazello1313 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 If they'd save some of those millions that they made while playing, instead of buying three mansions, four $50,000 cars, and having for three or four illegitimate children, they wouldn't have much to complain about. I agree that many of the old-timers got screwed, but today's players have nothing to complain about. Bryant Gumble is a race-baiting, socialist idiot who hates Upshaw. His comments don't surprise me, especially since he's attacked Upshaw over this issue before. Did he whine about their top-notch health insurance as well? that is definitely true...if i could chose a single person on the face of the earth to haul off and punch in the mouth, gumbel might be the odds-on favorite. comparing the NFL to the NBA/MLB is a bit specious. if you compare roster sizes, and average career lengths, there are probably 10 times as many ex-NFL players as any other sport, and their average salary when they played was much less. you gotta take all that into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 As much as I sympathize with these older players who really did get screwed by the NFL, Gumbell's blaming of Upshaw is completely idiotic. Did Upshaw negotiate the CBAs in the 1960s? Does Upshaw have the power to "tax" the current players to help support the older players? Braynt Gumble is a Megan Fox of epic proportions who has an axe to grind with "Uncle Tom" Upshaw. I'd love to see Upshaw punch his whiny, pretenious mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 that is definitely true...if i could chose a single person on the face of the earth to haul off and punch in the mouth, gumbel might be the odds-on favorite. comparing the NFL to the NBA/MLB is a bit specious. if you compare roster sizes, and average career lengths, there are probably 10 times as many ex-NFL players as any other sport, and their average salary when they played was much less. you gotta take all that into account. Don't you mean "pop in the grille"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akfatha Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 the reason gene upshaw is brought into the mix is because of his comments like 'i'm only helping the players who pay my salary. no one in the past pays my salary so im not worried about them' (not verbatim, but close). anyway I don't know what to think of it, but I do think more should be done to help former players. like they said in the article on real sports, nfl doesn't consider you disabled if you can sit behind a desk and work. Suffering succotash!? how many former nfl players are going to be able to get office jobs anyway? nfl has also made players go to several different doctors, until they get the answer they like to hear. i dont give a damn about gumbel or upshaw, but the nfl DOES need to do better for former players and gene DOES play a role in that, so do all the current nfl players. considering how much money some of these guys make on regular salary, they should be more willing to set aside some union money to give to former players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 anyway I don't know what to think of it, but I do think more should be done to help former players. like they said in the article on real sports, nfl doesn't consider you disabled if you can sit behind a desk and work. Suffering succotash!? how many former nfl players are going to be able to get office jobs anyway? I think that's part of the problem. NFL players expect retirement with a six-figure pension at age 35. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Because of the nature of their job, I believe that they're entitled to full health insurance and a REASONABLE pension, but that's about it. Sorry, but if you want to retire in your mid-30's, you'd better save those millions that you made during your playing days. the reason gene upshaw is brought into the mix is because of his comments like 'i'm only helping the players who pay my salary. no one in the past pays my salary so im not worried about them' (not verbatim, but close). Yep, Upshaw's comments were insensitive. But his point that he only has control over the CBAs that were negotiated during his tenure is dead-on. BTW, why is it that we don't see today's players voluntarily donating part of their salaries to these old-timers? Given that they have enough to pay for a mansions, $50,000 cars, and child support for three or four illegitimate children, and are STILL able to live in luxury, they certianly do have the means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 correct me if im wrong....but werent you a winner for the huddles most annoying homer? if you didnt win, im certain you are garnered plenty of votes the funny thing is about this...is when junior seau went down and the pats were in desperate need of a run stuffing inside linebacker...ted johnson mulled a return....return to help a guy that has caused so much pain in his life? return for what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 correct me if im wrong....but werent you a winner for the huddles most annoying homer? seems like you're trying to give him a run for his money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 seems like you're trying to give him a run for his money. how do you figure that?...i simply shared some info about ted johnsons life that i already knew....this info was reiterated in the jackie macmullan article that was posted sorry if everyone wants to jump on the bill belichick hate wagon...now everyone that doesnt want to cry for ted johnson is an annoying homer and thinks belichick can do no wrong? you guys are pathetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Sorry, but if you want to retire in your mid-30's, you'd better save those millions that you made during your playing days. True as to today's player for sure, but for the guys who played pre-1977, the guys who are really at issue here, this really is not an adequate response to the question of why the NFL has turned their back on these guys. They didn't make enough to save up like that, hell most of them probably had to take off-season jobs to get by. I heard Ditka say that an owner of a major league baseball team offered to take him up on his request of $100k per team, even though no NFL team would do so. That's shameful IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 correct me if im wrong....but werent you a winner for the huddles most annoying homer? if you didnt win, im certain you are garnered plenty of votes the funny thing is about this...is when junior seau went down and the pats were in desperate need of a run stuffing inside linebacker...ted johnson mulled a return....return to help a guy that has caused so much pain in his life? return for what? Learn to take a joke. Also, no, I wasn't ever the winner of the Huddle's most annoying homer. At least, I don't think so............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Learn to take a joke. Also, no, I wasn't ever the winner of the Huddle's most annoying homer. At least, I don't think so............ nah i can take a joke...i know you were joking...so i traded a barb with ya....its azazelo...dont understand where his animosity comes from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 nah i can take a joke...i know you were joking...so i traded a barb with ya....its azazelo...dont understand where his animosity comes from It's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 I don't for a second believe that anything that happened with Johnson doesn't happen all the time with all the teams in the NFL. I think the ESPN headline this morning had the obvious slant to pin this on Belichick. Interesting to note when Johnson asked for his medical records that both of those back to back concussions were documented by the Pats. "I had to see if you could play," was BB's statement to Johnson. Johnson needed to stand up for himself and didn't. Sad to see the player be pressured to do what might not ultimately be in his best interest, but the players need to know that nobody is going to look out for them but themselves in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 I don't for a second believe that anything that happened with Johnson doesn't happen all the time with all the teams in the NFL. I think the ESPN headline this morning had the obvious slant to pin this on Belichick. Interesting to note when Johnson asked for his medical records that both of those back to back concussions were documented by the Pats. "I had to see if you could play," was BB's statement to Johnson. Johnson needed to stand up for himself and didn't. Sad to see the player be pressured to do what might not ultimately be in his best interest, but the players need to know that nobody is going to look out for them but themselves in that situation. no, that's why they have team doctors and trainers. now whether the head coach listens to those trainers and doctors, as is his ethical responsibility, is another question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackshi17 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 no, that's why they have team doctors and trainers. now whether the head coach listens to those trainers and doctors, as is his ethical responsibility, is another question. +1 That's why the trainers always take away and hide a players helmet when they sustain a head injury. Players will almost always opt to return to the game if not controlled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balliet12 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 And, after sustaining additional concussions over the next three seasons, he now forgets people's names, misses appointments and suffers from depression and an addiction to amphetamines. Amphetamines? An addiction to amphetamines doesn't seem surprising at all to me. One of the most commonly prescribed amphetamines is Ritalin. Half the world seems to take Ritalin these days, and I could definitely see how someone who suffered brain damage could be classified as having attention-deficit disorder among many other issues! It seems to me that more than one NFL player/ex player has become addicted to one form of drug or another related to their injuries -- didn't Farve have a pain killer addiction at one point? I don't see anyone thinking Farve's a pathetic druggie because of that. I think this story is very sad. I don't like seeing Ted Johnson dragging the Pats/Belichick through the mud, but I also think he thought long and hard about it before doing so. In the article I read in the Boston Globe, the reporter said that Ted had initially told him the story last summer and then changed his mind and asked him not to run it. He said that the suicide of Andre Waters a couple of months ago caused Ted to change his mind again and want his story out there. It does seem like a disproportionate amount of ex-NFL players have serious mental instability issues and other problems. The whole culture of the game is for people to play despite the fact that their body parts are hanging off. Players are going to want to play no matter what because they know their jobs are on the line. I do think that coaches and trainers need to do all they can to help protect these guys (especially with head injuries), and I do also think it is important for players to look out for themselves. If getting this story out there can change anything for the better, then it's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 An addiction to amphetamines doesn't seem surprising at all to me. One of the most commonly prescribed amphetamines is Ritalin. Half the world seems to take Ritalin these days, and I could definitely see how someone who suffered brain damage could be classified as having attention-deficit disorder among many other issues! It seems to me that more than one NFL player/ex player has become addicted to one form of drug or another related to their injuries -- didn't Farve have a pain killer addiction at one point? I don't see anyone thinking Farve's a pathetic druggie because of that. I think this story is very sad. I don't like seeing Ted Johnson dragging the Pats/Belichick through the mud, but I also think he thought long and hard about it before doing so. In the article I read in the Boston Globe, the reporter said that Ted had initially told him the story last summer and then changed his mind and asked him not to run it. He said that the suicide of Andre Waters a couple of months ago caused Ted to change his mind again and want his story out there. It does seem like a disproportionate amount of ex-NFL players have serious mental instability issues and other problems. The whole culture of the game is for people to play despite the fact that their body parts are hanging off. Players are going to want to play no matter what because they know their jobs are on the line. I do think that coaches and trainers need to do all they can to help protect these guys (especially with head injuries), and I do also think it is important for players to look out for themselves. If getting this story out there can change anything for the better, then it's a good thing. Johnson discussed his depression and the medications he was given to treat it. It isn't totally uncommon for docs to prescribe Ritalin as an agent to boost energy level for severely depressed patients. Johnson wasn't taking Ritalin specifically prior to the depression -- at least that's the impression I got from the Globe article. Adrenalin is nature's own Ritalin after all...people who are accustomed to high adrenalin levels tend to seek out adrenalin producing situations (vicious cycle). Also, the after adrenalin let down is an exhausted, 'depressed' feeling. You can see how these things would all play against one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 no, that's why they have team doctors and trainers. now whether the head coach listens to those trainers and doctors, as is his ethical responsibility, is another question. He still can't force Johnson to play. Most coaches are like CEOs, and they do expect their team of coaches and trainers, etc. to report to them on issues like this. Like others have said though..this whole article has to be digested within the framework of it being Johnson's point of view and not necessarily the objective truth. His 'remarkable' ability to recall a conversation with BB with perfect clarity weighed against the picture he portrays of fuzziness and confusion seems a bit off. I feel bad for the guy, he was a good player for the Pats for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 I feel bad for the guy, he was a good player for the Pats for a long time, but if he's gonna say something bad about Bill we gotta throw him under the bus without blinking. fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 This is a man, not a high school boy, or even a college kid. Johnson has no one to blame but himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 He still can't force Johnson to play. Most coaches are like CEOs, and they do expect their team of coaches and trainers, etc. to report to them on issues like this. Like others have said though..this whole article has to be digested within the framework of it being Johnson's point of view and not necessarily the objective truth. His 'remarkable' ability to recall a conversation with BB with perfect clarity weighed against the picture he portrays of fuzziness and confusion seems a bit off. I feel bad for the guy, he was a good player for the Pats for a long time. no. he can't force johnson to play. But there's a lot of pressure to "suck it up" and play from coaches and teammates. This is his job on the line that was paying him a million dollars a year. Players get cut all the time because they can't play. Noone knows for sure exactly what happened at this point, but here is a quote from the NYTimes article Several Patriots teammates said they did not recall this incident but invariably testified to the believability of Mr. Johnson, team captain in 1998 and 2003. Said one former teammate who insisted on anonymity because he still plays for the Patriots under Mr. Belichek, "If Ted tells you something's going on, something's going on" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 The question you need to ask yourself is do I want someone to make decisions for me. We all know smoking and drinking is a risk to our health, but not to sure I want anyone telling me I can't do either. Risk is part of football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 fixed. Wow, and here I thought you stood for that whole personal responsibility thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 no. he can't force johnson to play. But there's a lot of pressure to "suck it up" and play from coaches and teammates. This is his job on the line that was paying him a million dollars a year. Players get cut all the time because they can't play. Noone knows for sure exactly what happened at this point, but here is a quote from the NYTimes article Several Patriots teammates said they did not recall this incident but invariably testified to the believability of Mr. Johnson, team captain in 1998 and 2003. Said one former teammate who insisted on anonymity because he still plays for the Patriots under Mr. Belichek, "If Ted tells you something's going on, something's going on" Okay, if we're down to quoting parts of the article, maybe we should quote the parts where on the one hand he said he would have considered coming back to play this year if he'd have been called? How about the part where he blows off commitments? Granted, the man is a shell of his former self. My point was that blaming one person stemming from one particular point in time is questionable at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Okay, if we're down to quoting parts of the article, maybe we should quote the parts where on the one hand he said he would have considered coming back to play this year if he'd have been called? How about the part where he blows off commitments? Granted, the man is a shell of his former self. My point was that blaming one person stemming from one particular point in time is questionable at best. He's actually not blaming one person. Asked who was to blame for his condition - Mr. Belichek, Mr. Whalen (trainer), himself or the entire culture of the N.F.L - Mr. Johnson thought for 30 seconds and said he could not decide. I acknowledge that Johnson is a little "off". I just think too many people seem to completetely dismisssing the story when i think there may be something to it, on some level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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