Looks like the Big 10 has it figured out

[detlef]

It may be blasphemy to even mention it, but is the Big-10 as a conference really that much better than the mid-majors this year? That said, if you run up a gaudy record in that conference, you're going to get regarded among the nation's elite. Why doesn't, say Memphis, get the same kind of run? Oh right, they don't play anybody good.

 

Big 10 supporters will point to the fact that they had 3 teams amongst the top 10 in football and are the only conference with two teams near the top in hoops. But who are they playing?

 

Sure, wins against Purdue, Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota sound better than listing off a bunch of teams from the MEAC, MAC, or other lesser regarded conferences, but are they?

 

Meanwhile people start questioning the merits of UNC and Florida because they're dropping games to mid-tier teams in their conferences. Now I'm not saying that those two teams are rock solid but there is a huge difference between going playing in a league where there are perhaps 7-8 teams capable of beating anyone in the nation on a given night and playing in one where nobody outside the top 4 is remotely good.

 

Funny thing is, both FL and UNC beat Ohio St. In fact FL completely throttled them. So you've got OSU who's lost it's two non-conference games against elite teams and has simply feasted on what is a sham of a conference sitting at #1.

 

Let's see if the Big 10 can manage a better record in the NCAA tourney than they did in the bowl season.

[Rockerbraves]

Let's see if the Big 10 can manage a better record in the NCAA tourney than they did in the bowl season.

 

 

If I admit I don't follow basketball nearly as much as football, can I still give you a +1?

 

SEC looks to have several good teams but very few elite teams this year. Even though my Tigers are crap this season, I'll still watch the big tourney and will be rooting for the Vols and the rest of the SEC teams who represent our conference.

[gilthorp]

I'll place a large wager with you that they do post a better in the basketball tourney than they did in football. Want to bet me, Detlef?

[Puddy]

I pretty much had the same thought as you Detlef a couple of weeks ago. A pretty good analogy can be drawn between the Big Ten basketball and football seasons. A couple of strong teams who are probably ranked higher than they should be and will probably lose in the tourney to teams from a stronger conference. Michigan State lost by 2 today to Wisconsin (after beating them a short time ago), Michigan almost upsets Ohio State today (and they've been throttled by superior teams this year - UCLA and Georgetown). I think it will be a short stay in the tourney for almost all Big 10 teams this year.

[gilthorp]

I pretty much had the same thought as you Detlef a couple of weeks ago. A pretty good analogy can be drawn between the Big Ten basketball and football seasons. A couple of strong teams who are probably ranked higher than they should be and will probably lose in the tourney to teams from a stronger conference. Michigan State lost by 2 today to Wisconsin (after beating them a short time ago), Michigan almost upsets Ohio State today (and they've been throttled by superior teams this year - UCLA and Georgetown). I think it will be a short stay in the tourney for almost all Big 10 teams this year.

 

 

Better or worse than the 2-5 record in football?

[Puddy]

Better or worse than the 2-5 record in football?

 

 

 

My thought about this came when Ohio State and Wisconsin were ranked #1 and #2 a couple of weeks ago. Figured it sounded eerily similar to the football season. No way are those two teams the top 2 and that ranking will be exposed in the tourney. The basketball record will probably be better because of the creampuffs those two teams will face in the first round. I wouldn't bet on too many of the other matchups however.

[wildcat2334]

I pretty much had the same thought as you Detlef a couple of weeks ago. A pretty good analogy can be drawn between the Big Ten basketball and football seasons. A couple of strong teams who are probably ranked higher than they should be and will probably lose in the tourney to teams from a stronger conference. Michigan State lost by 2 today to Wisconsin (after beating them a short time ago), Michigan almost upsets Ohio State today (and they've been throttled by superior teams this year - UCLA and Georgetown). I think it will be a short stay in the tourney for almost all Big 10 teams this year.

 

 

 

I disagree. While the Big 10 is down in overall strength, they are still looking to get 6 in the tourney. Both Wisky & OSU should, and will go deep IMO. Both teams are excellent...

 

Wisky is too solid, one of those teams that never gets blown out, and they will be a tough out.

 

OSU? wow- certainly have the players around Oden to do well, just very streaky. When on, they are as good as anyone.

 

I see em both with an excellent shot at the Elite 8, and both have a solid shot at the Final 4. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the two, likely OSU is there.

[detlef]

I'll place a large wager with you that they do post a better in the basketball tourney than they did in football. Want to bet me, Detlef?

 

That's hardly going out on a limb. Betting that they'll do better than .280 winning percentage is hardly taking up for your conference.

 

I'm just saying that if both Wisconson and OSU get #1s at the expense of, say UNC who's had to go to battle twice a week every week for the last two months against teams, most of whom are pretty much capable of beating anyone in the country on the right night...

 

Honestly.

 

OK, let's just say that somebody besides Memphis stepped up and, like Memphis, basically ran the table in C-USA only splitting with Memphis. Would those two teams be #1 and #5? Why should OSU and Wisc be any different? Regardless of history, they play in a conference that is mediocre at best. However, like football, they get the benefit of the doubt.

[gilthorp]

I'm not the one going out on a limb. You wondered if they'll do better in basketball than football, and I asked if you wanted to wager on those words...that's all.

 

The Big 10 Basketball Conference is what it is...a physical, low scoring, defensive and ball controlled league.

 

I think, over the years, the Big 10 has represented themselves well in this tourny and should do pretty well this year.

[Chargerz]

I think, over the years, the Big 10 has represented themselves well in this tourny and should do pretty well this year.

 

I agree, although I'm wondering how well Purdue will do.

[gilthorp]

I agree, although I'm wondering how well Purdue will do.

 

 

With the match-ups, I can see 4 Big Ten Teams going out early.

 

I'll bet we see 3-3 in the first round. WI, OSU, and IU.

 

MSU, Purdue, and IL have an up hill climb.

[Puddy]

With the match-ups, I can see 4 Big Ten Teams going out early.

 

I'll bet we see 3-3 in the first round. WI, OSU, and IU.

 

MSU, Purdue, and IL have an up hill climb.

 

 

I had MSU losing in round 1 also until I heard that Marquette's best defensive guy is out for the tourney. Going to give MSU the nod based on that and that Tom Izzo is very good at getting his team ready for this. MSU pulls out the victory only to lose to the Tar Heels on Saturday.

[Puddy]

Very impressive first round for the Big 10. I have to admit I am quite surprised. Went 5-1 and should have been 6-0. Illinois really put up quite the choke job. Once Va Tech started pressing, Illinois did not have a floor leader to take control. I sensed they were going to lose when they were down 7. What a shame that was.

 

Still an excellent showing for the conference.

[Chargerz]

Illinois really put up quite the choke job. Once Va Tech started pressing, Illinois did not have a floor leader to take control. I sensed they were going to lose when they were down 7. What a shame that was.

 

As an alum I am . I really thought the Illini were going to beat VT!

[Rockerbraves]

Big Ten only gets one team in the Sweet 16 despite having 7 teams in.

[chiefjay]

Big Ten only gets one team in the Sweet 16 despite having 7 teams in.

 

 

7?

[Puddy]

Big Ten only gets one team in the Sweet 16 despite having 7 teams in.

 

 

Actually there were 6 teams in but your point is well taken. As much as they deserved praise for the first round, they were absolutely exposed in the second. The football analogy actually proved to be spot on. Wisconsin gets bounced and they should have lost in the first round. Ohio State survives when they should be going home too (Xavier pulled a nice choke job). The Big 10 was a very mediocre conference and their top two teams were pretenders as a 1 and 2 seed.

 

 

Oh and Greg Oden looks like he's 35 years old

[isleseeya]

 

Oh and Greg Oden looks like he's 35 years old

 

 

agreed ..he looks older than Moses Malone

[Grits and Shins]

Actually there were 6 teams in but your point is well taken. As much as they deserved praise for the first round, they were absolutely exposed in the second. The football analogy actually proved to be spot on. Wisconsin gets bounced and they should have lost in the first round. Ohio State survives when they should be going home too (Xavier pulled a nice choke job). The Big 10 was a very mediocre conference and their top two teams were pretenders as a 1 and 2 seed.

Oh and Greg Oden looks like he's 35 years old

 

 

Xavier should have so won that game EVEN after missing the free throw. They simply need to foul any OSU player (not in the act of shooting a 3) and put them on the FT line for 2 shots. Game over, Xavier wins.

[heydave76]

Actually there were 6 teams in but your point is well taken. As much as they deserved praise for the first round, they were absolutely exposed in the second. The football analogy actually proved to be spot on. Wisconsin gets bounced and they should have lost in the first round. Ohio State survives when they should be going home too (Xavier pulled a nice choke job). The Big 10 was a very mediocre conference and their top two teams were pretenders as a 1 and 2 seed.

Oh and Greg Oden looks like he's 35 years old

 

 

Greg Oden has looked 35 since he was about 15.

[Chavez]

Xavier should have so won that game EVEN after missing the free throw. They simply need to foul any OSU player (not in the act of shooting a 3) and put them on the FT line for 2 shots. Game over, Xavier wins.

 

Aren't you the same guy who goes "woulda coulda shoulda doesn't matter" when anyone points out that Barry Sanders was more productive than Emmitt Smith?

[gilthorp]

The only team that proved they didn't belong was Illinois. I don't think the football analogy was "spot on" as Puddy put it.

 

The team that was over-rated was Wisconsin and losing Butch was very tough on them.

 

They've never been the best basketball conference top to bottom and most likely never will be. But, they were respectable in this tourney.

[Grits and Shins]

Aren't you the same guy who goes "woulda coulda shoulda doesn't matter" when anyone points out that Barry Sanders was more productive than Emmitt Smith?

 

 

Not sure how that relates?

 

Xavier could have won that game had they simply fouled any OSU player that was not in the act of shooting a 3 pointer (or made the 2nd free throw). There was no reason to rely on the hope that time would run out before an OSU player to put up a 3 pointer to tie the game (or that the 3 point attempt would miss).

 

Quite clearly Xavier did NOT employ this strategy, which I put down to poor coaching, and they lost. Quite clearly they lost and went home. Quite clearly it is nobody's fault but their own ... they had the game in their hands.

 

If you think that is the same as saying "IF Barry would have only NOT retired he would have been better than Emmitt" ... well then there is no talking sense to you.

[wildcat2334]

Not sure how that relates?

 

Xavier could have won that game had they simply fouled any OSU player that was not in the act of shooting a 3 pointer (or made the 2nd free throw). There was no reason to rely on the hope that time would run out before an OSU player to put up a 3 pointer to tie the game (or that the 3 point attempt would miss).

 

Quite clearly Xavier did NOT employ this strategy, which I put down to poor coaching, and they lost. Quite clearly they lost and went home. Quite clearly it is nobody's fault but their own ... they had the game in their hands.

 

If you think that is the same as saying "IF Barry would have only NOT retired he would have been better than Emmitt" ... well then there is no talking sense to you.

 

 

 

This is a debate that has been going on between NBA and college coaches for years. Some like to foul in that situation, some don't - it is not poor coaching though. Most of the top coaches in both the NBA and college do not foul there. Many times you can get a continuation type-foul, or end up with a strange bounce of the missed 2nd FT- many many factors, and even if it may be a good strategy, it goes against what coaches teach, and believe in. Many coaches would rather play tough D, make them take a defended 3. Most times this works- in this spot Lewis hit the 3 - tough to swallow.

[Puddy]

The only team that proved they didn't belong was Illinois. I don't think the football analogy was "spot on" as Puddy put it.

 

 

Belonging is one thing. Living up to your seeding is another thing. Wisconsin's performance and OSU's (once they faced a half-way decent team) are not exactly number 1 and 2 seed material. Sort of like OSU and UM weren't exactly number one and two in football.

 

In that respect, I do think the analogy makes sense. The top two teams in the conference are ranked higher than they deserve to be for beating up on a weak conference overall.