How do you play this hand?

[Grits and Shins]

Limit .5/1 cash game

 

min bet $1 pre/post flop

min bet $2 turn/river

 

I've had crappy cards all night and limp in with suited A-7 from late position.

 

Flop A-7-9.

 

Guy in front of me bets, and re-raises my raise.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I call his re-raise, then push him to the max after he bets the turn. He most likely has AK, AQ, or AJ, and thinks he has you out-kicked.

 

Uness the turn is K, Q, or J, you're two pair are likely good....unless he hit a set on the flop (which would have been a 12% chance). If he did, kudos to him....but I think, post-flop, you are ahead.

[PaulOttCarruth]

Are you heads up or are there other players?

[Grits and Shins]

Are you heads up or are there other players?

 

After the raise we are heads up

[Azazello1313]

if it's two bucks max bet or whatever, i think you have to play it to the hilt on the flop. if he keeps raising though after the turn and river...i think you need to learn how to simply call once in a while.

[alexgaddis]

All in

[Big Country]

Let's start wit hthe preflop decision:

 

Any limpers in ahead of you? If so, how many?

How many players to act behind you?

 

Then, on the flop:

Is the guy ahead of you that is betting in the blinds or was he a limper?

Did the 9 match your suit?

Were either of the A-9-7 the same suit?

 

 

Now, the answers above will give some insight into his potential holdings. Given that there is no preflop raise, I would discount the AK/AQ/AJ hands as most people will raise with this (exception may be tighter players in the blinds who would call and look to connect on the flop cheaply).

 

Now, your hand is vulnerable obviously to some potential hands like A9, 99 and 77, and well ahead of ace-rag, and the unlikely 6-8 or 8-T if the guy is in the blinds.

 

Not knowing any other information, I call his reraise, and, as I have position on him, If he checks the turn I will lead out and would call his raise if he raises. If it gets to a river, I call his lead out if he bets, and check behind if he checks, especially if raised me on the turn.

[Big Country]

if it's two bucks max bet or whatever, i think you have to play it to the hilt on the flop. if he keeps raising though after the turn and river...i think you need to learn how to simply call once in a while.

 

The stakes should have no bearing on the discussion of the proper play. Let's call it two betting units. It is irrelevant if those units are dollars or million dollars, so long as we safely assume grits and the other players are playing at a level that is in their comfort zone.

[Grits and Shins]

Let's start wit hthe preflop decision:

 

Any limpers in ahead of you? If so, how many?

How many players to act behind you?

 

Then, on the flop:

Is the guy ahead of you that is betting in the blinds or was he a limper?

Did the 9 match your suit?

Were either of the A-9-7 the same suit?

Now, the answers above will give some insight into his potential holdings. Given that there is no preflop raise, I would discount the AK/AQ/AJ hands as most people will raise with this (exception may be tighter players in the blinds who would call and look to connect on the flop cheaply).

 

Now, your hand is vulnerable obviously to some potential hands like A9, 99 and 77, and well ahead of ace-rag, and the unlikely 6-8 or 8-T if the guy is in the blinds.

 

Not knowing any other information, I call his reraise, and, as I have position on him, If he checks the turn I will lead out and would call his raise if he raises. If it gets to a river, I call his lead out if he bets, and check behind if he checks, especially if raised me on the turn.

 

Prior to the flop.

The guy ahead of me limped in prior to me.

Both blinds limped in behind me.

 

Both blinds checked to the guy in front of my and folded to my raise.

 

There is no flush draw.

[Azazello1313]

The stakes should have no bearing on the discussion of the proper play. Let's call it two betting units. It is irrelevant if those units are dollars or million dollars, so long as we safely assume grits and the other players are playing at a level that is in their comfort zone.

 

 

my comment had nothing to do with the stakes, rather that there appears to be a fairly small (relative to the blinds) max bet/raise. i think he said the max raise is 2x the BB?

[Big Country]

my comment had nothing to do with the stakes, rather that there appears to be a fairly small (relative to the blinds) max bet/raise. i think he said the max raise is 2x the BB?

 

 

It is limit poker.

 

The blinds are $0.50 and $1.00.

 

Preflop and on the flop, every bet and every raise is in increments of $1.00, thus, preflop, you can either fold, call the $1.00 big blind or riase to exactly $2.00, no more, and no less unless you are going all-in for less than $2.00

 

On the turn and river, every bet and every raise is in increments of $2.00. Thus, if first to act, you can check or bet $2.00. If someone has bet ahead of you, you can fold, call the $2.00 or raise to exactly $4.00, no more, and no less unless you are going all-in for less than $2.00.

 

The only tricky part is if someone has gone all-in for less ahead of you. This is generally where the half-bet rule comes into play. If the all-in is for half the bet or less, you can only complete the raise if you wish to raise. If it is more than half of the bet, you can call or make a full raise.

[Azazello1313]

It is limit poker.

 

The blinds are $0.50 and $1.00.

 

Preflop and on the flop, every bet and every raise is in increments of $1.00, thus, preflop, you can either fold, call the $1.00 big blind or riase to exactly $2.00, no more, and no less unless you are going all-in for less than $2.00

 

On the turn and river, every bet and every raise is in increments of $2.00. Thus, if first to act, you can check or bet $2.00. If someone has bet ahead of you, you can fold, call the $2.00 or raise to exactly $4.00, no more, and no less unless you are going all-in for less than $2.00.

 

The only tricky part is if someone has gone all-in for less ahead of you. This is generally where the half-bet rule comes into play. If the all-in is for half the bet or less, you can only complete the raise if you wish to raise. If it is more than half of the bet, you can call or make a full raise.

 

yup. i understood as much. and i was saying he ought to raise it as much as he can on the flop within those confines. what exactly are you taking issue with?

Edited March 5, 2007 by Azazello1313

[Big Country]

yup. i understood as much. and i was saying he ought to raise it as much as he can on the flop within those confines. what exactly are you taking issue with?

 

 

You saying there is a small max raise. In limit, the Big blind is almost always the size of the small bet (bet amount preflop and postflop). In fact, I know of no where that plays it with a big blind not equal to the small bet. He did raise the max, which is to say he made it $2 to go preflop (a call of the $1 big blind and the maximum raise of $1 more). He could not make it more, he could not make it less (unless he is playing spread limit, which is doubtful as he would have made mention of that, and also as raises must be equal to or greater than the previous amount, it would not be possible to raise for a lesser amount except for my all-in exceptions noted in the previous post).

 

I guess my issue is that it seems like you are faulting him for not raising more when there is no option to raise more.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I guess my issue is that it seems like you are faulting him for not raising more when there is no option to raise more.

 

 

If you look at his original post, he could have raised it more.

 

Grits was first to raise, then was re-raised. Grits could have then raised the third and final time, so in essense, he could have made the pot larger by another $1.

 

Or am I missing something?

[Azazello1313]

I guess my issue is that it seems like you are faulting him for not raising more when there is no option to raise more.

 

 

not at all, all i said is with that betting structure he probably wants to get as much money in the pot as he can on the flop.

[Big Country]

If you look at his original post, he could have raised it more.

 

Grits was first to raise, then was re-raised. Grits could have then raised the third and final time, so in essense, he could have made the pot larger by another $1.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

 

I may have misunderstood Az's original reply. I took it to mean Grits should have raised a larger amount not an additional time. You're not mising anything, other than what cap they put on the number of raises per round.

 

not at all, all i said is with that betting structure he probably wants to get as much money in the pot as he can on the flop.

 

 

INteresting. I'll go back to my original reply about the preflop decision. This player that has just reraised Grits only limped preflop, then only called after Grits preflop raise.

 

Now on the flop, he leads out, and reraises.

 

Obviously not knowing the player, hard to narrow down his potential holdings further, but what sort of hands do you expect him to hold? IMO, this preflop betting pattern is either a small to medium pair (55-99), a decent suited connector (QJ-98) , maybe unsuited KQ (though I'd have expected a preflop raise with this) or a medium suited ace (A9 on down). I leave out the high suited connectors as most players would raise with these from the earlier positions to discourage calls and from later position to try steal the blinds.

 

So, given that range of hands, which of them most likely has the player betting out on the flop and then reraising us?

 

I could see the lead out being a buy attempt, but not the reraise. IMO, this screams set or two pair, most likely the A7 or A9. This means we are now looking at being way behind or split pot. Sure, he could be playing something fairly passively preflop and overly aggresive on the flop, like the high aces, but IMO, that is less likely than the other options.

 

IMO, this becomes a situation much like the kings hand. Call the reraise, then call down the turn and river, but if he checks the turn fire at the pot.

[spain]

Now, the answers above will give some insight into his potential holdings. Given that there is no preflop raise, I would discount the AK/AQ/AJ hands as most people will raise with this (exception may be tighter players in the blinds who would call and look to connect on the flop cheaply).

 

Now, your hand is vulnerable obviously to some potential hands like A9, 99 and 77, and well ahead of ace-rag, and the unlikely 6-8 or 8-T if the guy is in the blinds.

 

Not knowing any other information, I call his reraise, and, as I have position on him, If he checks the turn I will lead out and would call his raise if he raises. If it gets to a river, I call his lead out if he bets, and check behind if he checks, especially if raised me on the turn.

 

Good analysis. This is the way to play it. In any game, you are attempting to assign a range of possible holdings that you opponent could have in the hole. When the hand starts, the range is very wide. But with each bet and each street you should be narrowing your opponents possible hole cards into a tighter and tighter range. When he simply called your pre-flop raise, and then the guy raises you with that board, I am thinking A rag, A 9, or maybe he has A7 too. Or possibly a small pair that may have connected, which could be disasterous for you. This is why you MUST slow down, because you are now vulnerable to a set, and his betting is telling you he has connected. Just call his bets turn and river and see what happens. I like the way BC says to play it so I cant add much more.

Edited March 6, 2007 by spain

[Azazello1313]

I may have misunderstood Az's original reply. I took it to mean Grits should have raised a larger amount not an additional time. You're not mising anything, other than what cap they put on the number of raises per round.

INteresting. I'll go back to my original reply about the preflop decision. This player that has just reraised Grits only limped preflop, then only called after Grits preflop raise.

 

Now on the flop, he leads out, and reraises.

 

Obviously not knowing the player, hard to narrow down his potential holdings further, but what sort of hands do you expect him to hold? IMO, this preflop betting pattern is either a small to medium pair (55-99), a decent suited connector (QJ-98) , maybe unsuited KQ (though I'd have expected a preflop raise with this) or a medium suited ace (A9 on down). I leave out the high suited connectors as most players would raise with these from the earlier positions to discourage calls and from later position to try steal the blinds.

 

So, given that range of hands, which of them most likely has the player betting out on the flop and then reraising us?

 

I could see the lead out being a buy attempt, but not the reraise. IMO, this screams set or two pair, most likely the A7 or A9. This means we are now looking at being way behind or split pot. Sure, he could be playing something fairly passively preflop and overly aggresive on the flop, like the high aces, but IMO, that is less likely than the other options.

 

IMO, this becomes a situation much like the kings hand. Call the reraise, then call down the turn and river, but if he checks the turn fire at the pot.

 

 

that's a good point, i may not have been considering the pre-flop limp as much as i should....but he could limp with virtually any low ace, and i think that's gotta be what you put him on, and assuming he's pushing hard with top pair. of course you start to worry about your hand with all those raises, but i still think you fill up your maximum number of raises (don't most limit games usually have a cap?) on the flop. then slow down if he keeps raising on the turn/river, which is what i said in the first place.