Bye bye basement

[Hugh 0ne]

Wow. Double good luck.

 

Wurd.

[rocknrobn26]

No doubt, but first I need a job. And so does my husband.

 

Jeeze Czar. I hope you both find something soon.

[Perchoutofwater]

Ugh. That sucks. Sorry to hear that Czarina. We have a sump pump clause in our insurance, so it looks like we are going to get up to $10'000, minus a $1'000 deductible. But I'll believe it when I see it. For now, we have a professional flood clean up company coming to give us an estimate on gutting and drying the basement. After that, I'll price out the material to re-do the floors and the walls. And if there's any money left over, I'll have someone come in and do the work so I don't have to re-finish my basement for the second time. I also plan on expanding my sump pump capability to handle 3 times the volume I can handle now, so we won't have to deal with this ordeal in the future. I'm also going to install a propane powered generator that will automatically switch on in case of a power failure and be hard wired to a new panel that will include critical appliances, and of course, my pump system.

 

Czarina, not to tell you something you don't already know, but be very careful with the water in the basement. Mold is a terrible health concern, especially with your boys in the house. Consider getting someone to come in and at least look at it and make some recommendations, estimates are free of charge. Good luck.

 

 

Mold is a bunch of BS. That smell that you thought was old people smell when you went to visit Grandma was mold. When the CDC did their finding on the horrible "black mold", they were split in their decision with a narrow margin finding that it was harmful. Later a couple of those that thought it was bad, changed their tune based on additional information. Of course this wasn't publicized because it would have killed then niche industry of mold abatement, and would have been one less thing for insurance companies to provide coverage for at a ridiculous price.

 

Hugh, you will get ass raped if you get a specialized company in there to do that. The best thing to do would be to gut it your self. It doesn't take nearly as long to demo something as it does to build it out. You could probably demo out the basement in a weekend or two. If you are really concerned about the mold, demo everything down to the studs, and then get a chemical sprayer and mix it 1/2 and 1/2 with water an bleach, and spray everything down. Of course wear a filter mask and goggles when doing this, as the chlorine in bleach can be nasty. Go ahead an rent a few large fans, and get air flowing in there, and leave any widows open to push the moist air out. This will be a hell of a lot cheaper than hiring someone to do it.

[rajncajn]

Hugh, you will get ass raped if you get a specialized company in there to do that. The best thing to do would be to gut it your self. It doesn't take nearly as long to demo something as it does to build it out. You could probably demo out the basement in a weekend or two. If you are really concerned about the mold, demo everything down to the studs, and then get a chemical sprayer and mix it 1/2 and 1/2 with water an bleach, and spray everything down. Of course wear a filter mask and goggles when doing this, as the chlorine in bleach can be nasty. Go ahead an rent a few large fans, and get air flowing in there, and leave any widows open to push the moist air out. This will be a hell of a lot cheaper than hiring someone to do it.

 

I can endorse this statement 100%.

 

It's not as much work to demo it yourself as you may think and contractors will be in short supply, if you wait too long for one matters will only get worse. The best thing is to get everything out as quickly as possible down to the bare floor & studs, treat it with the mix Perch suggested or a professional solution made for that purpose & then get it dry as quickly as possible. Word of warning, do NOT use straight bleach as it will damage the wood.

 

You can also likely rent a dehumidifier to help get the moisture out.

[alexgaddis]

Wait, you and Menudo are best friends?

[Hugh 0ne]

Mold is a bunch of BS. That smell that you thought was old people smell when you went to visit Grandma was mold. When the CDC did their finding on the horrible "black mold", they were split in their decision with a narrow margin finding that it was harmful. Later a couple of those that thought it was bad, changed their tune based on additional information. Of course this wasn't publicized because it would have killed then niche industry of mold abatement, and would have been one less thing for insurance companies to provide coverage for at a ridiculous price.

 

Hugh, you will get ass raped if you get a specialized company in there to do that. The best thing to do would be to gut it your self. It doesn't take nearly as long to demo something as it does to build it out. You could probably demo out the basement in a weekend or two. If you are really concerned about the mold, demo everything down to the studs, and then get a chemical sprayer and mix it 1/2 and 1/2 with water an bleach, and spray everything down. Of course wear a filter mask and goggles when doing this, as the chlorine in bleach can be nasty. Go ahead an rent a few large fans, and get air flowing in there, and leave any widows open to push the moist air out. This will be a hell of a lot cheaper than hiring someone to do it.

 

 

Thanks for the post, I have a few questions/comments, if you don't mind.

 

Do you have anything to back up what you said? I appreciate your input, but would certainly like some backup before I even consider your suggestion.

 

I have a 2 year old and a 9 week old, which is the main reason I'm so concerned regarding ANY potential health risks.

 

Also, what's the health risk of the bleach odor to young children if any?

 

I have the ability to do the work myself. That being said, the insurance will pay for some of this, so I'll pick my battles.

[rajncajn]

Thanks for the post, I have a few questions/comments, if you don't mind.

 

Do you have anything to back up what you said? I appreciate your input, but would certainly like some backup before I even consider your suggestion.

 

I have a 2 year old and a 9 week old, which is the main reason I'm so concerned regarding ANY potential health risks.

 

Also, what's the health risk of the bleach odor to young children if any?

 

I have the ability to do the work myself. That being said, the insurance will pay for some of this, so I'll pick my battles.

 

I know I would not risk my family's health on conflicting reports about the health concerns of mold. That being said all the documentation we received here said that the process Perch & I suggested would be satisfactory in combating any mold problems & nearly 2 years after the fact I haven't had any recurring or residual problems from our flooding. My advice would be to first & foremost get everything out as quickly as possible and also check with your insurance company to see what suggestions they have. They should have tons of documentation on cleanup after a flood. Find out how much they are going to cover as quickly as possible, if it will be enough to pay for the cleanup as well as completely rebuild then if that makes you more comfortable there's no harm in it. I would wager that it won't be though. The biggest key is to not wait on anything, the longer it stays wet down there the worse it's going to get.

[rajncajn]

As far as the bleach odor, you will definitely need to ventilate the basement as much as possible. The bleach fumes will cause eye & skin irritation. A couple of box fans in the windows if possible or you may need a larger fan to draw the fumes out through the entry. Until the fumes reside I would very much suggest your family not stay in the house.

Edited April 19, 2007 by rajncajn

[Perchoutofwater]

Thanks for the post, I have a few questions/comments, if you don't mind.

 

Do you have anything to back up what you said? I appreciate your input, but would certainly like some backup before I even consider your suggestion.

 

I have a 2 year old and a 9 week old, which is the main reason I'm so concerned regarding ANY potential health risks.

 

Also, what's the health risk of the bleach odor to young children if any?

 

I have the ability to do the work myself. That being said, the insurance will pay for some of this, so I'll pick my battles.

 

 

Black Mold: Experts Don't Agree on Mold Study

Reporter: Byron Harris

Updated: Apr 28, 2001 at 11:34AM

 

DALLAS, Apr 27

 

 

Is the concern over black mold in Texas justified by scientific fact? There were facts that scientists ignored in a critical black mold investigation.

 

Seven years ago, Marcia Williams was terrified to see her son Jamal coughing up blood as he lay in a Cleveland, Ohio hospital bed.

 

"He was really sick, and it was really scary," Williams recalled. "It was to the point where we didn't know whether he was going to make it or not."

 

Williams wasn't alone. In all, ten infants fell ill in Cleveland during 1993 and 1994. One died.

 

A medical SWAT team from the Centers for Disease Control began investigating the homes of the victims to see what they had been breathing.

 

The infants lived relatively close together. All were diagnosed with acute pulmonary hemorrhage. Scientists thought they found a clue pointing to the rare illness:

 

Stachybotrys. Black mold.

 

Researchers said they found black mold in most of the houses where the sick kids lived. Those findings resulted in what some are now calling a public health panic.

 

Assumptions about the dangers of Stachybotrys are costing millions of dollars across the nation and in Texas. The assumptions arose from a study done by the CDC during the initial Cleveland illnesses.

 

A News 8 investigation, however, has uncovered questions about the facts and methods of those who did that study for the CDC.

 

"Put it under a microscope and take it apart: the king has no clothes. It just doesn't tie together," said Dr. Alan Cohen, a pediatric pulmonologist.

 

The questions began over how much black mold was in the homes of the victims.

 

Stachybotrys can be found in most garden soil. It's a common fungus. Under some conditions, it produces a toxin that -- when eaten by farm animals -- can lead to death.

 

In the Cleveland cases, researchers found airborne black mold in only about half the homes they inspected.

 

"We have perpetuated a myth," said microbiologist Miriam Lonon, who has never before spoken publicly about her role in the scientific investigation in Cleveland.

 

During a News 8 interview, Lonon said she was brought in early from the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health.

 

"In no case did I find Stachy in the quantity, or in an area where I thought it was likely to result in an exposure to children," Lonon said.

 

That's not what chief investigator Dr. Ruth Etzel wanted to hear, according to Lonon. "I think she had formed a theory of her own," Lonon said.

 

An electronic mail message Etzel wrote, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, indicates she ignored Lonon's finding.

 

Instead, the chief investigator wrote to colleagues that the infants' "illness was probably caused by a mycotoxin. (Stachybotrys)."

 

Did Dr. Etzel enter the study with any preconceived notions? "We had our mind made up that this hypothesis was going to be tested vigorously," Dr. Etzel said.

 

Other evidence obtained by News 8 indicates researchers chose to ignore another factor that could have impacted the children: insecticides.

 

Etzel says that variable was considered. in the research. "We did pursue it, and we actually brought in industrial hygienists to test in the bedrooms of the babies who became ill," Etzel said.

 

But an internal CDC communication obtained by News 8 indicates a roach bomb may have contaminated the bedroom of the baby who died.

 

Insecticide was found on his baby rattle, and there were traces of it in the air days after the incident. It was not reported by the CDC.

 

The final CDC report on Cleveland said the sick babies were more likely to live in homes with Stachybotrys in them. It also said 90 percent of the sick infants were exposed to smokers at home.

 

But in the study, black mold gets the attention.

 

"I've seen it in textbooks. I've seen it in all kinds of literature, and it's being perpetuated by scientific investigators," Lonon said.

 

Dr. Eduardo Montana was one of the original investigators from the CDC. Now he says it is time to step back and take another look because of questions about reaching a conclusion from such a small sample.

 

"This thing has really taken on a life of its own," Montana said.

 

Last spring, the CDC essentially retracted its own study. The CDC now says the relationship between black mold and lung problems in Cleveland children was not proven.

 

But many experts never heard about that.

 

The black mold beat goes on. Oddly enough, hygienists say black mold is not always black. So if you encounter mold around your house you should remain calm and clean it up.

 

Link to news story from Dallas News

 

I was wrong, in was Cleavland, not Chicago.

 

The fact of the matter is, it is doubtful that you even have mold yet. You would be spraying it just to prevent it from growing.

 

With regard to the affect of the chlorine on the children, I would get them out of the house while you sprayed it, and have fans on hand to run with the windows open for a couple of hours before you bring the kids back into the house. I don't think you have anything to worry about except for the fumes which will dissipate fairly quickly. 2 hours after you do, if you use fans, the fumes shouldn't be any worse than when your wife cleans the kitchen or bathroom with a chlorine/bleach based cleaner.

 

Regarding the insurance company, go ahead and get two or three quotes from remediation companies, and give them to the insurance company, and settle the claim. That way you can pocket the money that it would have cost you to hire the remediation shiesters.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Perchoutofwater

[SteelBunz]

Yes.....the issue of mold in general is still being debated. BUT......what the CDC doesn't tell you is that it really depends on the surrounding runoff and whether or not it included sewer water.

 

A few inches of rainwater? A nuisance certainly......and if left can cause mold. But generally not black mold unless left for a longer period of time under the right conditions. It's important to get it cleaned up, dried out and treated....but it's a DIY project. The main thing is to get all materials that can support mold AND got wet out of the basement. Cutting drywall and insulation out up to where it remains dry.....treating the studs, scrubbing concrete....getting an electrician in if wiring was involved....boxes, carpets, wood floors etc. all have to go.

 

This gets MORE important if you live next to farms, cattle pastures, creeks, rivers and lakes. Livestock feces are amazingly toxic. And of course.....in Rajn's case......there was a WHOLE lot more in that flood water than just rainwater. Gas, sewer, every household cleaning product and poison from all the homes destroyed made it's way in with the mud.

 

And Hugh....you are right to be concerned with very young children in the house. Young immune systems don't tolerate mold as adults do. BUT....don't go too nuts yet. It's basically a bigger health hazard AFTER it grows and dries out sending spores into the air or via air ducts. So....you have plenty of time to get it inspected and cleaned up.

 

So to all those affected....don't forget to change your air filters AFTER all the clean up.

 

I had to deal with a sewer backup about 5 years ago. All that yucky damage when, unbeknownest to me, there was a little $7 part out there that could have prevented the whole ordeal. Looks like a drain strainer but gets epoxied into your basement drain so that water can only flow into the drain...not up from it. It was the city's fault.....they even said it was. BUT they have a "no fault clause" where they can only be sued for your homeowner's deductible.....so you have to put in a claim anyway.

 

I was where you are, Czar.....unfinished basement. But still a ton of crap thrown out and a pain cleaning up. We also had a few drainage issues with downspouts that we took care of...rerouted away from the foundation. The hydraulic cement in minor cracks and a few holes....then the drylock has worked out VERY well. But again.....I've not had 8 inches of rain in 24 hours either. There are incidents that happen once every 50 years that you really never have any control over.

[Kid Cid]

I swear this is the year of bad things happening to good people. I can only wish both Hugh and Czar the best of luck in dealing with this.