The Best: Defensive Player

[Menudo]

Fix a few things up and I could say the same thing about Bailey.

 

Menudo I was more impressed with his fumble in the AFC titile game.

 

 

Actually, his fumble wasn't in the AFC title game, it was in the divisional round. They cruised easily over an over-matched Broncos team in Denver in the AFC Title Game, remember.......

[Goopster24]

Excellent defenses all have 1 thing in common. they force the action to the middle of the field and their MLB'ers excel because of it.

 

Not that Urlacher is not great because he is. but no player single handedly takes out the run and if you were gonna pick 1 player who is closest to stopping the run all by himself you would have to look at 1 of the DT's.

 

 

Another reason why the trenches are so incredibly important. If your lines are average, both on offense and defense, your team will be average as well.

[Doc Holliday]

Another reason why the trenches are so incredibly important. If your lines are average, both on offense and defense, your team will be average as well.

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

[broncosn05]

Actually, his fumble wasn't in the AFC title game, it was in the divisional round. They cruised easily over an over-matched Broncos team in Denver in the AFC Title Game, remember.......

The Steelers weren't good last year.... Take that?

[Goopster24]

And I think we already established that Rankopedia has no credibility.

[Menudo]

And I think we already established that Rankopedia has no credibility.

 

 

Well, except for their spot-on rankings of the best NFL Franchise in history.

[Goopster24]

Well, except for their spot-on rankings of the best NFL Franchise in history.

 

 

That was exactly what I was referring to, but not in that regard.

 

In all honesty, the numbers for that are hard to argue.

[broncosn05]

Peppers should be climbing. Isn't he like 26? Unreal.

[Goopster24]

Peppers should be climbing. Isn't he like 26? Unreal.

 

 

And they said that he is going to command the richest contract for defensive player in NFL history. Wicked.

[Goopster24]

He also runs sprints with the wideouts and defensive backs!

[Big John]

Peppers should be climbing. Isn't he like 26? Unreal.

 

27

[Sgt. Ryan]

Urlahcer isnt as good as Ray Ray now, let alone in Ray rays prime. Urlacher is often bailed out by Lance Briggs and plays behind one of the best DL in the league in front of him. Watch Urlacher get exposed if Lance Briggs is gone. Come to think of it, when Lance Briggs arrived, is when Urlacher started having success. hmmmm....... Players have come and gone, in front of or around Ray Ray, and he is still the most menacing LB of his generation. He isnt bad in coverage either.

 

Urlacher has 10 career ints in the last 7 yrs

Ray Lewis has 23 career ints in the last 10 yrs

 

I hardly think Urlacher in the next 3 yrs is going to more than double his last 7 yrs preoduction for INTs. SO the coverage bonus for Urlacher is not even comparable to what Ray does, or has done.

Edited June 9, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Sgt. Ryan]

Look at these stats last yr

 

Ray Lewis is 14 games, he missed weeks 10 and 11

 

solo - 80

assist - 23

sack - 5

FF - 1

INT - 2

PD - 8

 

 

 

Urlacher - who played all 16 games

 

 

solo - 93

assist - 49

sack - 0

FF - 1

INT - 3

PD - 9

 

2 more games, Ray Ray equals Urlacher in tackles, but doesnt get credit for jumping on the pile of Lance Briggs tackles, for assists. Other than that, Ray Ray in fewer games, has almost equal stats in 2 fewer games, with one exception. 5 sacks to 0 for Urlacher.

[broncosn05]

He also runs sprints with the wideouts and defensive backs!

Yeah a crazy athlete.

 

Look at these stats last yr

 

Ray Lewis is 14 games, he missed weeks 10 and 11

 

solo - 80

assist - 23

sack - 5

FF - 1

INT - 2

PD - 8

Urlacher - who played all 16 games

 

 

solo - 93

assist - 49

sack - 0

FF - 1

INT - 3

PD - 9

 

2 more games, Ray Ray equals Urlacher in tackles, but doesnt get credit for jumping on the pile of Lance Briggs tackles, for assists. Other than that, Ray Ray in fewer games, has almost equal stats in 2 fewer games, with one exception. 5 sacks to 0 for Urlacher.

I didn't like how Ray halted performance when his D-Line struggled. Now it probably would happen to all LBs but I think Urlacher would have a better oppurtunity of keeping his stats high without stellar D-Line performance. Niether, though good, are/were not great.

[Goopster24]

Urlahcer isnt as good as Ray Ray now, let alone in Ray rays prime. Urlacher is often bailed out by Lance Briggs and plays behind one of the best DL in the league in front of him. Watch Urlacher get exposed if Lance Briggs is gone. Come to think of it, when Lance Briggs arrived, is when Urlacher started having success. hmmmm....... Players have come and gone, in front of or around Ray Ray, and he is still the most menacing LB of his generation. He isnt bad in coverage either.

 

Urlacher has 10 career ints in the last 7 yrs

Ray Lewis has 23 career ints in the last 10 yrs

 

I hardly think Urlacher in the next 3 yrs is going to more than double his last 7 yrs preoduction for INTs. SO the coverage bonus for Urlacher is not even comparable to what Ray does, or has done.

 

Time out. Let's do some math.

 

Ray had 103 tackles total. He played 14 games. That's an average of about 7.4 tackles a game (with assists).

 

Urlacher had 141. He played 16. That's an average of about 8.8 tackles a game.

 

Ray plays two more games? On that pace he wouldn't beat him in tackles. And did Ray not have two great players around him last year, Suggs and Thomas?

 

Urlacher has played with two great linebackers that have left, Warrick Holdman and Rosevelt Colvin. Urlacher has still performed even when people thought he wouldn't after their departures. He also played after Ted Washington and Keith Traylor left, and the DT's weren't good for a bit, yet he still did well. So to say that Urlacher has played with people who haven't left unlike Ray is a false statement. I would argue Lance Briggs' position is a replaceable one, as it was the same one that Holdman played. Ray Lewis, after the Super Bowl year, played in 46 and he did awful. He also has played with several great DT's, including the Goose and the guy from Oregon, Ngata.

 

Urlacher also isn't responsible to blitz. The Bears almost NEVER blitz their linebackers so the idea that he can't get sacks is false. In fact, Lewis' best year in sacks was last year and Urlacher has toped Lewis' best season in sacks three times.

 

And the interceptions factor? Please. You are telling me that if a guy has more interceptions than another, that he is automatically a better player in coverage? Urlacher played safety in college. He is faster than Ray. He is more athletic than Ray. There is a not a question in my mind that Urlacher is a better coverage person than Lewis. I don't think you would find a coach in the league that disputes that statement. Urlacher drops back all the time and covers wideouts and running backs in the slot. He did pretty well against Reggie Bush except one play. Ray Lewis has trouble with those situations.

 

I think it's a close call, because Ray has shown he is dominant, but to say that Ray is easily better than Urlacher is far from the truth. It is much closer. If they are asking who is the better defender right now, I'd say Urlacher. In their prime, that's very tough. Urlacher still has a lot to do still in the league.

[Crazysight]

I don't think I've seen Adrian Wilson mentioned at all. He is greatly underrated...

[Menudo]

I think it's a close call, because Ray has shown he is dominant, but to say that Ray is easily better than Urlacher is far from the truth. It is much closer. If they are asking who is the better defender right now, I'd say Urlacher. In their prime, that's very tough. Urlacher still has a lot to do still in the league.

 

As of right now, I'd agree that I'd give Urlacher the edge over Ray Lewis.

 

However, in their prime, I think you would be hard-pressed to find someone who is not a Bears fan that would take Urlacher over Lewis. In his prime, Ray Lewis was one of the top 3 ILB's to ever play the game. This is coming from somebody who has a sever dislike for Mr. Lewis.

[Goopster24]

As of right now, I'd agree that I'd give Urlacher the edge over Ray Lewis.

 

However, in their prime, I think you would be hard-pressed to find someone who is not a Bears fan that would take Urlacher over Lewis. In his prime, Ray Lewis was one of the top 3 ILB's to ever play the game. This is coming from somebody who has a sever dislike for Mr. Lewis.

 

 

 

Oh I know that. All I am saying is that Urlacher still has a lot to do in this league and his best years might be ahead of him. Ray will go down as one of the greatest and Urlacher can easily be in the same sentence possibly when his career is over.

[Sgt. Ryan]

Time out. Let's do some math.

 

Ray had 103 tackles total. He played 14 games. That's an average of about 7.4 tackles a game (with assists).

 

Urlacher had 141. He played 16. That's an average of about 8.8 tackles a game.

 

Ray plays two more games? On that pace he wouldn't beat him in tackles. And did Ray not have two great players around him last year, Suggs and Thomas?

 

Urlacher has played with two great linebackers that have left, Warrick Holdman and Rosevelt Colvin. Urlacher has still performed even when people thought he wouldn't after their departures. He also played after Ted Washington and Keith Traylor left, and the DT's weren't good for a bit, yet he still did well. So to say that Urlacher has played with people who haven't left unlike Ray is a false statement. I would argue Lance Briggs' position is a replaceable one, as it was the same one that Holdman played. Ray Lewis, after the Super Bowl year, played in 46 and he did awful. He also has played with several great DT's, including the Goose and the guy from Oregon, Ngata.

 

Urlacher also isn't responsible to blitz. The Bears almost NEVER blitz their linebackers so the idea that he can't get sacks is false. In fact, Lewis' best year in sacks was last year and Urlacher has toped Lewis' best season in sacks three times.

 

And the interceptions factor? Please. You are telling me that if a guy has more interceptions than another, that he is automatically a better player in coverage? Urlacher played safety in college. He is faster than Ray. He is more athletic than Ray. There is a not a question in my mind that Urlacher is a better coverage person than Lewis. I don't think you would find a coach in the league that disputes that statement. Urlacher drops back all the time and covers wideouts and running backs in the slot. He did pretty well against Reggie Bush except one play. Ray Lewis has trouble with those situations.

 

I think it's a close call, because Ray has shown he is dominant, but to say that Ray is easily better than Urlacher is far from the truth. It is much closer. If they are asking who is the better defender right now, I'd say Urlacher. In their prime, that's very tough. Urlacher still has a lot to do still in the league.

 

 

Im not talking total tackles, Im talking solo tackles. Assists, Urlacher wins hands down, as he constantly jumps on the pile after Briggs and Co. has the player stopped. Coverage is pass int and PD, in 2 less games Ray Ray had 1 less pass defense. If you dont break up the play, or make the pick, what good are you in coverage. If I was taking one guy for next yr, Id take Ray Ray hands down over Urlacher as far as a player. Urlacher still has alot to do in this league, oh really. Urlachers best yr in the league for total tackles as you want to prove makes a player better, was 153 in 2002. Ray Ray has topped 160, solo tackles 4 times. Ray Rays best yr he had more solo tackles than Urlacher had total tackles in his best yr, 157 Ray solo to 153 Urlacher total. Rays best yr he had 184 total tackles. Urlacher has only broken 125 total tackles twice in 7 yrs. Ray Ray has done it 4 times in his first 7 yrs, and 6 times total. SO argue any fact you want, but Ray Ray is hands down the better LB of this generation, and Id still take him at his advanced age, over Urlacher now in his prime. BTW, compare Ray Rays first 7 yrs to Urlachers. Its embarassing how lopsided this argument is. Ray has been dinged up the last 2 yrs and missed a few games, or this wouldnt even be a discussion now.

 

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=964

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2140

 

 

 

edit to add:

 

Ray Lewis after the Super Bowl yr played in only 5 games, and had 58 total tackles, 47 solo, 11 assist. 3 PD, 2 INT, and a FF. That is an average of almost 10 solo tackles a game, and 2 assists a game. I hardly call that awful. In fact, how many years has Uralcher averaged those same stats. Try never. So if that yr for Ray was awful, its better on average than Urlacher has ever done.

Edited June 9, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Goopster24]

Im not talking total tackles, Im talking solo tackles. Assists, Urlacher wins hands down, as he constantly jumps on the pile after Briggs and Co. has the player stopped. Coverage is pass int and PD, in 2 less games Ray Ray had 1 less pass defense. If you dont break up the play, or make the pick, what good are you in coverage. If I was taking one guy for next yr, Id take Ray Ray hands down over Urlacher as far as a player. Urlacher still has alot to do in this league, oh really. Urlachers best yr in the league for total tackles as you want to prove makes a player better, was 153 in 2002. Ray Ray has topped 160, solo tackles 4 times. Ray Rays best yr he had more solo tackles than Urlacher had total tackles in his best yr, 157 Ray solo to 153 Urlacher total. Rays best yr he had 184 total tackles. Urlacher has only broken 125 total tackles twice in 7 yrs. Ray Ray has done it 4 times in his first 7 yrs, and 6 times total. SO argue any fact you want, but Ray Ray is hands down the better LB of this generation, and Id still take him at his advanced age, over Urlacher now in his prime. BTW, compare Ray Rays first 7 yrs to Urlachers. Its embarassing how lopsided this argument is. Ray has been dinged up the last 2 yrs and missed a few games, or this wouldnt even be a discussion now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=964

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2140

edit to add:

 

Ray Lewis after the Super Bowl yr played in only 5 games, and had 58 total tackles, 47 solo, 11 assist. 3 PD, 2 INT, and a FF. That is an average of almost 10 solo tackles a game, and 2 assists a game. I hardly call that awful. In fact, how many years has Uralcher averaged those same stats. Try never. So if that yr for Ray was awful, its better on average than Urlacher has ever done.

 

 

You're right, there is no point to argue. You win.

[Sgt. Ryan]

You're right, there is no point to argue. You win.

 

 

Point is you are a homer, and Im a unbaised opinion, and the facts back up my opinion. Take off the rose colored glasses.

[Menudo]

Oh I know that. All I am saying is that Urlacher still has a lot to do in this league and his best years might be ahead of him. Ray will go down as one of the greatest and Urlacher can easily be in the same sentence possibly when his career is over.

 

 

I agree with you there. You have to remember, Urlacher is still at a prime age, and his story hasn't been finished yet. I was just pointing out that Ray Ray is amongst the best ILB's in history, and Urlacher has a bit to go to get to that level, which is what I believe you were agreeing to.

[Goopster24]

Point is you are a homer, and Im a unbaised opinion, and the facts back up my opinion. Take off the rose colored glasses.

 

 

Just because my team that has a player that is considered in the argument for best defensive player in the league doesn't mean I can't look at the argument objectivly. And I believe I said Julius Peppers is the best, so your "point" that I am a homer in this argument just got thrown out the window.

[Sgt. Ryan]

Just because my team that has a player that is considered in the argument for best defensive player in the league doesn't mean I can't look at the argument objectivly. And I believe I said Julius Peppers is the best, so your "point" that I am a homer in this argument just got thrown out the window.

 

 

 

My argument with you has nothing to do with the best overall player, this is comparing Ray Ray to Urlacher, which really I proved there is no comparison. You thinking Urlacher should even be in the same sentence as Ray Ray career wise, is a joke, and blind homerism. My point is I dont think Ray Ray has slipped, but nagging injuries are the reason he has missed games last yr. If not for those missed games, at his advanced age, he was every bit comparable to Urlacher in what was Urlachers 2nd best yr ever, to 2002. So it wouldnt surprise me a bit for urlacher to regress from last yr, and Ray Ray to have another typical year, that is better than Urlacher.

[Sgt. Ryan]

BTW, Id also put Peppers ahead of Urlacher, so we agree there. Though I put Ray Lewis ahead of Peppers.