spain Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 I don't know ...when my parents came here from italy in the early 60's they had to speak english to make a living and support a family ..I do not believe this is the case now and we do in fact coddle those who do not speak english ..imo How dare you say we coddle this innocent victims of the evil United States! Somebody call the DNC and Lulac! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) I don't know ...when my parents came here from italy in the early 60's they had to speak english to make a living and support a family ..I do not believe this is the case now and we do in fact coddle those who do not speak english ..imo Perhaps your parents had higher standards for what "making a living" is than others. Like now, they could have been laborers and gotten along. However, they must have wanted more and thus did what they had to do. This should be applauded and certainly encouraged. All of us think of things that are technically optional as things that we "have to do". It's just that you "have to do' these things to maintain a certain quality of life. You don't have to mow the lawn, or bathe, or fix the gutters, or a bunch of other things. You just do because you are not willing to live with the consequences of not doing so. Your parents didn't have to learn English but they had sense enough to think that they weren't going to come all this way just to wash dishes or clean toilets for the rest of their lives. Once again, I have spent my entire career working in an industry with a significant amount of Latin immigrants. The next one who I meet that has gotten very far at all without learning English will be the first. The simple fact is, there are a lot of jobs that need to be done that it is really hard to motivate non-immigrants to take seriously. Many of these jobs do not require being fluent in English. I It is simply a matter of economics to realize that you are not going to get a lot of these guys to learn very good English. Enough to do the basic things perhaps but maybe not fill out a legal document. Hell, I can't read many of those damned things without paying a lawyer mad jack to do so and I'm form here. Also, as has been mentioned. This is largely done by the private sector. Don't freaking tell me who I can and can't cater my business to. Not in the US of freaking A! If I think there's a market segment that can be tapped into by luring spanish speaking buyers, then I'm gonna take their money just like I'm taking everyone elses. If you're too stubborn to do this, so be it. With the extra money I make, I'll build a store next to yours and run your backwards ass out of business. Edited July 30, 2007 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 So I'm in the North Carolina hotel room this weekend and I stop the Viet Cong maid in the hallway and tell her I just need towels. She looks at me and gives me that "No speaky English" smile. What did I do next? A. Ended up throwing Napalm on her and watched her run down the hallway nekkid. B. Pointed a gun at her temple while she winced. C. Dried off with a hand towel. Learn the language if you're going to interact with the Natives, people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 So I'm in the North Carolina hotel room this weekend and I stop the Viet Cong maid in the hallway and tell her I just need towels. She looks at me and gives me that "No speaky English" smile. What did I do next? Take off your clothes , and ask her in vietnamese for a towel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 So I'm in the North Carolina hotel room this weekend and I stop the Viet Cong maid in the hallway and tell her I just need towels. She looks at me and gives me that "No speaky English" smile. What did I do next? A. Ended up throwing Napalm on her and watched her run down the hallway nekkid. B. Pointed a gun at her temple while she winced. C. Dried off with a hand towel. Learn the language if you're going to interact with the Natives, people. I had the good fortune of turning this around once. I was traveling through China, all the while having a hell of a time getting around the fact that I spoke no Chinese. I'm sure I was ripped off time and again because I had no idea where I was going, etc. Finally, I got back at them. On the trains, there is a huge difference in quality levels. Hard seat is like sitting in church, Soft seat is somewhat better but it's still a bench seat and you're surrounded by screaming kids running around, etc. You really need to get a sleeper if you are going any distance at all. Even if you don't intend to sleep. There's just way less people around. So, I was unable to get a sleeper ticket for a certain train that was going to be like 12 hours overnight. I wasn't about to mess with the seats, so I just grabbed a bunk. Dude came by with the ticket for the bunk and yelled at me in Chinese that it was is (I assume that's what he was saying). I just smiled and said "OK, thank you!" and sat there with a stupid look on my face. Dude kept on insisting and I just kept saying "OK, thank you!" Eventually, he got someone from the train but I just kept on being very friendly but not moving. Repeating "OK, thank you!" Eventually they just got tired of dealing with me and left me alone. I have no idea where that dude slept and I really didn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Employers are asking for bilingual applicants because the Spanish-speakers are too lazy and have a ridiculous sense of entitlement and refuse to learn English. But wait, Bear Fatty has absolutely no experience with any of this besides his bleeding, bleeting heart the crybaby whining fat sack of schit. Don't DARE come from a position of direct knowledge, he'll WHINE you down to his level til you give up and decide to talk to adults, not lulu, waterman or bearfatty... nice clique you got there moran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I had the good fortune of turning this around once. I was traveling through China, all the while having a hell of a time getting around the fact that I spoke no Chinese. I'm sure I was ripped off time and again because I had no idea where I was going, etc. Finally, I got back at them. On the trains, there is a huge difference in quality levels. Hard seat is like sitting in church, Soft seat is somewhat better but it's still a bench seat and you're surrounded by screaming kids running around, etc. You really need to get a sleeper if you are going any distance at all. Even if you don't intend to sleep. There's just way less people around. So, I was unable to get a sleeper ticket for a certain train that was going to be like 12 hours overnight. I wasn't about to mess with the seats, so I just grabbed a bunk. Dude came by with the ticket for the bunk and yelled at me in Chinese that it was is (I assume that's what he was saying). I just smiled and said "OK, thank you!" and sat there with a stupid look on my face. Dude kept on insisting and I just kept saying "OK, thank you!" Eventually, he got someone from the train but I just kept on being very friendly but not moving. Repeating "OK, thank you!" Eventually they just got tired of dealing with me and left me alone. I have no idea where that dude slept and I really didn't care. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I don't have a problem with signs posted in Spanish and the option to conduct my phone calls/credit card transactions in Spanish. But I DO have a problem with the Hispanic community using the "racism" card to block the legal recognition of English as our official language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 But wait, Bear Fatty has absolutely no experience with any of this besides his bleeding, bleeting heart the crybaby whining fat sack of schit. Don't DARE come from a position of direct knowledge, he'll WHINE you down to his level til you give up and decide to talk to adults, not lulu, waterman or bearfatty... nice clique you got there moran. That's funny, I've got TONS of direct knowledge in regards to this and he and I seem to see things pretty much the same way. I do find it odd that nearly all of my posts to this thread explaining exactly what is wrong with your guys' arguments are responded to with crickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I don't have a problem with signs posted in Spanish and the option to conduct my phone calls/credit card transactions in Spanish. But I DO have a problem with the Hispanic community using the "racism" card to block the legal recognition of English as our official language. Ya know what, I'm fine with the whole "different language choices" on phone calls, especially ones that relate to financial issues. If an immigrant comes here, learns conversational English, but wants to conduct personal matters like finance in the language he's more comfortable with, I'm cool with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Once again, I have spent my entire career working in an industry with a significant amount of Latin immigrants. The next one who I meet that has gotten very far at all without learning English will be the first. The simple fact is, there are a lot of jobs that need to be done that it is really hard to motivate non-immigrants to take seriously. Many of these jobs do not require being fluent in English. And yeah, ONCE AGAIN, so you're saying that because these jobs exist, my wife (or anyone for that matter) has to learn how to speak Spanish to get a job that happens to deal with these people? *crickets* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I don't have a problem with signs posted in Spanish and the option to conduct my phone calls/credit card transactions in Spanish. But I DO have a problem with the Hispanic community using the "racism" card to block the legal recognition of English as our official language. Well, that is sort of lame considering the fact that it is, in fact, our official language. My only problem with the movement to recognize English as the "official language" is that it really doesn't matter much in day to day life considering that it is the defacto language anyway and that a movement to do so is just a waste of time and money with the same motives as the whole man-woman marriage thing. Just another way for people to be confrontational and tell others that they don't like their way of life. I mean, honestly, do you really fear a time when you'd have to press "2" for English or make a special request for an English version of something? So really what is to gain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) And yeah, ONCE AGAIN, so you're saying that because these jobs exist, my wife (or anyone for that matter) has to learn how to speak Spanish to get a job that happens to deal with these people? *crickets* You say that people who are more qualified are getting passed over for people who can speak Spanish. Well, if part of the job is dealing with people who speak Spanish, then perhaps they're not more qualified. I might not hire a guy who's a great cook if he's a total a-hole and can't get guys to follow his lead. He can technically speak the language but everyone hates him. He might be the best cook around but does me no good. Thus, he's no more "qualified' to be my sous chef than someone who may not have his knife skills but is a leader of men. I have to decide where the breaking point is. These companies have determined that what is best for their bottom line is to have employees who can converse easily with more people. It is within their rights to look for those qualities in applicants. I mean, l can't get a job as a lawyer because I don't know the language. That is the whole deal, you need to know how to speak that crap to get by. Being bi-lingual is just a skill set like any other. Edited July 30, 2007 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 You say that people who are more qualified are getting passed over for people who can speak Spanish. Well, if part of the job is dealing with people who speak Spanish, then perhaps they're not more qualified. These companies have determined that what is best for their bottom line is to have employees who can converse easily with more people. It is within their rights to look for those qualities in applicants. I mean, l can't get a job as a lawyer because I don't know the language. That is the whole deal, you need to know how to speak that crap to get by. Being bi-lingual is just a skill set like any other. OK if you actually think this, I have nothing more to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 OK if you actually think this, I have nothing more to say. It's not my fault that you have a narrow and unrealistic view of what qualifications are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Well, that is sort of lame considering the fact that it is, in fact, our official language. My only problem with the movement to recognize English as the "official language" is that it really doesn't matter much in day to day life considering that it is the defacto language anyway and that a movement to do so is just a waste of time and money with the same motives as the whole man-woman marriage thing. So apparently you're not aware that firefighters in Oregon are currently being denied promotions simply because they're not able to communicate with some of their Spanish-speaking-only subordinates. Just another way for people to be confrontational and tell others that they don't like their way of life. Yep, we're all just a bunch of racists. I mean, honestly, do you really fear a time when you'd have to press "2" for English or make a special request for an English version of something? No, but I fear a time when I'm going to be refused a promotion because my company decides to hire cheap, non-English-speaking labor. Why is it my job to learn THEIR language? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 It's not my fault that you have a narrow and unrealistic view of what qualifications are. Yeah it is, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) So apparently you're not aware that firefighters in Oregon are currently being denied promotions simply because they're not able to communicate with some of their Spanish-speaking-only subordinates.Yep, we're all just a bunch of racists. No, but I fear a time when I'm going to be refused a promotion because my company decides to hire cheap, non-English-speaking labor. Why is it my job to learn THEIR language? Until management in US companies is dominated by people who can speak another language but not English, then English, is, in fact, the defacto official language. So, explain to me what difference it really makes if English is declared the official language? Listen, every job has a list of qualifications. Once upon a time, many jobs didn't require computer literacy but now they do. Would you guys be up in arms because someone with such a job was being passed over because his industry had become more high tech and he didn't know his way around a computer? Nope, you tell the guy to take night classes so he can still compete. What's the difference really? Business have decided that adding computers is beneficial, so now you need to speak the language. They've also decided that speaking English is not a priority for lower level employees. Times change people As for Darin blaming me for the fact that his wife can't get a job. Sucks for you. I've adapted and now I'm thriving. It appears you haven't and really have nobody but yourself to blame. Edited July 30, 2007 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Listen, every job has a list of qualifications. Once upon a time, many jobs didn't require computer literacy but now they do. Would you guys be up in arms because someone with such a job was being passed over because his industry had become more high tech and he didn't know his way around a computer? Nope, you tell the guy to take night classes so he can still compete. What's the difference really? Business have decided that adding computers is beneficial, so now you need to speak the language. They've also decided that speaking English is not a priority for lower level employees. Times change people As for Darin blaming me for the fact that his wife can't get a job. Sucks for you. I've adapted and now I'm thriving. It appears you haven't and really have nobody but yourself to blame. My wife was an example. And if you're actually comparing the need to learn how to use a computer, or the language of the law, to the Hispanics' refusal/reluctance to learn the English language, then there's apparently (again) nothing to say to you. :shakeshead: And I didn't blame you for my wife not being able to get a job, pal. Quit getting so defensive. I blame you and those like you for being so lax with this issue. Pretty sad, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 My wife was an example. And if you're actually comparing the need to learn how to use a computer, or the language of the law, to the Hispanics' refusal/reluctance to learn the English language, then there's apparently (again) nothing to say to you. :shakeshead: And I didn't blame you for my wife not being able to get a job, pal. Quit getting so defensive. I blame you and those like you for being so lax with this issue. Pretty sad, actually. Why do you refuse to admit that being bilingual is a job skill? Why are you so hell bent on not allowing companies to hire people who can best do the job? You do realize that is what you are implying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I don't have a problem with signs posted in Spanish and the option to conduct my phone calls/credit card transactions in Spanish. But I DO have a problem with the Hispanic community using the "racism" card to block the legal recognition of English as our official language. Couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 So, explain to me what difference it really makes if English is declared the official language? Being turned down for a job because one does not speak another language, other than English, and it is really not necessary to speak said other language. Does it happen...not sure. Could it happen.....definitely. Reverse discrimination....YES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Why do you refuse to admit that being bilingual is a job skill? Why are you so hell bent on not allowing companies to hire people who can best do the job? You do realize that is what you are implying. Let me first say that I understand and can even appreciate your argument. I simply disagree with it. This'll be the last thing I say here, because quite frankly it's an argument that would simply bounce back and forth with no movement in either direction. You feel the way you do, I feel the way I do. For you to name-call and suggest I'm narrow-minded is pretty juvenile and discredits your argument. The bottom line is this: you argue that the language of the law, or better yet, the advent of the computer in the workplace, are industry trends akin to the need to speak Spanish. I do not agree that the need to speak Spanish should be an industry trend because it's simply the reluctance/refusal of a certain group to assimilate into the country that they live in. How is that similar to the language of the law or the need to work on computers? Comparing apples to oranges. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Why do you refuse to admit that being bilingual is a job skill? Why are you so hell bent on not allowing companies to hire people who can best do the job? You do realize that is what you are implying. Being bilingual is a skill. Unfortunately, too many employers are requiring potential employees speak Spanish as a second language but fail to required non-English speaking employees to speak English as a second language. It is actually reverse discrimination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Being bilingual is a skill. Unfortunately, too many employers are requiring potential employees speak Spanish as a second language but fail to required non-English speaking employees to speak English as a second language. It is actually reverse discrimination. Right, I'm not saying it's NOT a skill. I'm saying it shouldn't HAVE to be a skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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