FishFreak Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Is this guy a year away from being special or ready to put up numbers now? Some aren't sold on Walker's chemistry with Cutler or the fact that Cutler is in his 2nd year. I'm a supporter and feel like this offense will roll now that Henry has solidified the running attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 he's talented, i'm just not sure he's there mentally. either way, he's NOT the #1 WR on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 He's supposed to be the new Rod Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 he's talented, i'm just not sure he's there mentally. either way, he's NOT the #1 WR on this team. I agree, but he is crazy talented - the kid is big, strong, leaps well, ctaches the ball at his highest point, and shields well with his body. Not only that - Cutler clearly trusts him, and even better, despite the quad injury flap, Shanahan just as clearly is fond of him. That doesn't mean he'll displace Walker, but Shanahan has put forth teams before where the starting WRs both put up a ton of catches while the running game ran wild. I'm not saying both Marshall and Walker will each get 100 catches. I am saying that all the pieces are there for the DEN O to be very strong in all facets, and when Shanahan manages to get offensive balance and capable players in all positions, his offense can reel off some eye-popping numbers. And while I don't see either Walker or Marshall with 100 catches, I could certainly see both of them with 80 catches each and withing 5-6 catches of each other - and I see Graham benefiting from that as well, since he'll be on the field a lot and he simply won't get the attention he deserves from opposing Ds in the passing game. I don't see Walker as a legit #1 FF WR. I do see him as a solid #2 FF WR, and a very good #3 FF WR, though - and I see Marshall as having the possibility of breaking into the same type of production - if he gets his head together. Physically he's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 I agree, but he is crazy talented - the kid is big, strong, leaps well, ctaches the ball at his highest point, and shields well with his body. Not only that - Cutler clearly trusts him, and even better, despite the quad injury flap, Shanahan just as clearly is fond of him. That doesn't mean he'll displace Walker, but Shanahan has put forth teams before where the starting WRs both put up a ton of catches while the running game ran wild. I'm not saying both Marshall and Walker will each get 100 catches. I am saying that all the pieces are there for the DEN O to be very strong in all facets, and when Shanahan manages to get offensive balance and capable players in all positions, his offense can reel off some eye-popping numbers. And while I don't see either Walker or Marshall with 100 catches, I could certainly see both of them with 80 catches each and withing 5-6 catches of each other - and I see Graham benefiting from that as well, since he'll be on the field a lot and he simply won't get the attention he deserves from opposing Ds in the passing game. I don't see Walker as a legit #1 FF WR. I do see him as a solid #2 FF WR, and a very good #3 FF WR, though - and I see Marshall as having the possibility of breaking into the same type of production - if he gets his head together. Physically he's there. 80 catches each??? That seems improbable. What about Stokely and Scheffler getting touches? I probably shouldn't even mention Stokely since he could get hurt driving on the way home from practice. The Broncos better find a way to make Walker a stud. He has the talent and the tools if Cutler can find him. I think Marshall has the goods to get it done next year with Rod Smith officially out of the way and another year under his belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) I agree, but he is crazy talented - the kid is big, strong, leaps well, ctaches the ball at his highest point, and shields well with his body. Not only that - Cutler clearly trusts him, and even better, despite the quad injury flap, Shanahan just as clearly is fond of him. That doesn't mean he'll displace Walker, but Shanahan has put forth teams before where the starting WRs both put up a ton of catches while the running game ran wild. I'm not saying both Marshall and Walker will each get 100 catches. I am saying that all the pieces are there for the DEN O to be very strong in all facets, and when Shanahan manages to get offensive balance and capable players in all positions, his offense can reel off some eye-popping numbers. And while I don't see either Walker or Marshall with 100 catches, I could certainly see both of them with 80 catches each and withing 5-6 catches of each other - and I see Graham benefiting from that as well, since he'll be on the field a lot and he simply won't get the attention he deserves from opposing Ds in the passing game. I don't see Walker as a legit #1 FF WR. I do see him as a solid #2 FF WR, and a very good #3 FF WR, though - and I see Marshall as having the possibility of breaking into the same type of production - if he gets his head together. Physically he's there. i think you're getting a little ahead of yourself. right now, marshall is behind brandon stokley on the depth chart. there's still rod smith on this team also, and a slew of TEs who will be getting catches as well. expecting 80 grabs from marshall this year is totally unrealistic, IMO. Edited August 22, 2007 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory_n_az Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) He's probably another year away from the breakout. Something like 45-600-5 is reasonable for 2007. There's a lot to like about Marshall: Talent, Opportunity,up and coming passing QB for the future in Cutler (and the fact that Denver isn't known for passing to the RB helps in PPR leagues). If given the choice between the trendy young guys for the future (beyond 2007), I'd take Marshall over Vincent Jackson, Robert Meachem, Dwayne Bowe, Craig Davis. IMO People get too wrapped up in the someone not being the "#1" WR on a team. For 2007, I'd take #2's (Boldin, Housh, Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Bruce) over quite a number of #1 WR's on teams (Brandon Jones, Chambers, Muhammad/Berrian, B.Edwards, Horn, any Jags #1 WR, any Minnesota #1 Wr, Vincent Jackson, Porter or Curry) Edited August 22, 2007 by cory_n_az Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 i think you're getting a little ahead of yourself. right now, marshall is behind brandon stokley on the depth chart. there's still rod smith on this team also, and a slew of TEs who will be getting catches as well. expecting 80 grabs from marshall this year is totally unrealistic, IMO. that's absurd.... I only recall Stokley having 2 healthy seasons his entire career.....there may have been more, but I don't remember... Marshall seems to not be focused as much as he needs to be... I'd love to draft him this year, but my gut tells me that he won't start producing until after week 10... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 80 catches each??? That seems improbable. What about Stokely and Scheffler getting touches? I probably shouldn't even mention Stokely since he could get hurt driving on the way home from practice. The Broncos better find a way to make Walker a stud. He has the talent and the tools if Cutler can find him. I think Marshall has the goods to get it done next year with Rod Smith officially out of the way and another year under his belt. Read somewhere awhile back that he may be the #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 He's probably another year away from the breakout. Something like 45-600-5 is reasonable for 2007. There's a lot to like about Marshall: Talent, Opportunity,up and coming passing QB for the future in Cutler (and the fact that Denver isn't known for passing to the RB helps in PPR leagues). If given the choice between the trendy young guys for the future, I'd take Marshall over Vincent Jackson, Robert Meachem, Dwayne Bowe, Craig Davis. IMO People get too wrapped up in the someone not being the "#1" WR on a team. For 2007, I'd take #2's (Boldin, Housh, Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Bruce) over quite a number of #1 WR's on teams (Brandon Jones, Chambers, Muhammad/Berrian, B.Edwards, Horn, any Jags #1 WR, any Minnesota #1 Wr, Vincent Jackson, Porter or Curry) I like Jackson ahead of Marshall... Rivers and Jackson have a nice rapport from even before last season... I expect them to make an impact in Jackson's 3rd year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) i think you're getting a little ahead of yourself. right now, marshall is behind brandon stokley on the depth chart. there's still rod smith on this team also, and a slew of TEs who will be getting catches as well. expecting 80 grabs from marshall this year is totally unrealistic, IMO. that's absurd.... I only recall Stokley having 2 healthy seasons his entire career.....there may have been more, but I don't remember... Marshall seems to not be focused as much as he needs to be... I'd love to draft him this year, but my gut tells me that he won't start producing until after week 10... You are both right as to why we cannot get too excited about Marshall. Is he even the #2 WR? Do we need to see an injury for him to step in to a regular role? Even if Stokley isn't healthy, does Marshall have the focus currently to get a fair shar of catches thoughout the season or is his value up later in the season? I like the guy, but am not in love with him this season. Too many "ifs" to draft him with confidence, but he has some value as a very late round sleeper. Not even close between Jackson and Marshall. While I will not draft Jackson too early, I would take him way before Marshall. Edited August 22, 2007 by TDFFFreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Is he even the #2 WR? Yes, he is. Beat writers from both papers in town say he's been running with the 1st team - and they're actually credible writers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Yes, he is. Beat writers from both papers in town say he's been running with the 1st team - and they're actually credible writers. Glad to hear that BB. As a couple weeks ago I heard Stokes was making a run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) Yes, he is. Beat writers from both papers in town say he's been running with the 1st team - and they're actually credible writers. links? the official team depth chart last updated two days ago begs to differ. Edited August 22, 2007 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) links? the official team depth chart last updated two days ago begs to differ. That may be so, but that's not what Legwold & Williamson both said on local talk shows yesterday. Just curious - why are people expecting a regression in either Marshal and/or Cutler? When Cutler started his 5 games last year, Marshall caught 15 passes for 233 yds. Prorated over 16 games, that equates to 48 catches for 746 yds. And those totals were with both Cutler & Marshall being in their rookie years. So if people are predicting 40 catches for 600 yds, give or take, they are expecting either Marshall and/or Cutler to experience a setback in their development. I'm not sure that I understand that reasoning given the other factors in place in DEN. BTW - I do agree that 80 catches for Marshall is improbable and that I certainly overstated in that regard. I do not think 60 catches is unreasonable, though, and I could also see those 60 catches coming with 900 yds or more. Edited August 22, 2007 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 That may be so, but that's not what Legwold & Williamson both said on local talk shows yesterday. Just curious - why are people expecting a regression in either Marshal and/or Cutler? When Cutler started his 5 games last year, Marshall caught 15 passes for 233 yds. Prorated over 16 games, that equates to 48 catches for 746 yds. And those totals were with both Cutler & Marshall being in their rookie years. i am willing to bet they do better than that this year. I do agree that 80 catches for Marshall is improbable and that I certainly overstated in that regard. I do not think 60 catches is unreasonable, though, and I could also see those 60 catches coming with 900 yds or more. now that i agree with completely. wouldn't surprise me a bit to see 60/900 from marshall...i'd guess a little lower on yardage, but yeah, that ballpark. and with that he'd be poised to take the step up to 80 catch territory in 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory_n_az Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) So if people are predicting 40 catches for 600 yds, give or take, they are expecting either Marshall and/or Cutler to experience a setback in their development. I'm not sure that I understand that reasoning given the other factors in place in DEN. Javon /w Plummer: 5.1 receptions; 78 yards/game averages Javon /w Cutler: 3.6 receptions; 46 yards/game average (Prorated, if you wish: 736 yard season out of Javon. Do you really expect that? I don't) Cutler 2006 average: 200 yards passing/game. 3200/season. Not bad at all. With a vastly improved run game, he's not going to improve on those yardage #'s a great deal. I have him for 3500 yards passing this year. Not bad for a 2nd year QB. Both (Marshall/Scheffler) have missed the majority of the offseason. Both did their damage post-Plummer after working all 2006 with Cutler on the 2nd team. If we pro-rated Scheffler #'s, he'd be in the Pro Bowl this year. It's hard seeing him getting more than 400 yards this year with Graham there. (I doubt they're paying $30? million to him just to block, even if he is one of the best run blocking TE' s in the league). And on the flip side this offseason, Cutler/Javon have worked together all offseason. Both Marshall/Scheffler missed valuable development time this offseason. Time they'll never get back. I really like Marshall as I've posted in various threads. I'm just not going overboard for 2007 because 1) he's missed a lot of time in development with Cutler this offseason; 2) I expect Javon to improve on #'s with Cutler; 3) And we are in Year 2 with both Marshall/Cutler (It'd be foolish not to think both will have their ups and downs) ------------------ If we're going to prorate everything, can I go ahead and prorate Raiders WR Ronald Curry's final 3-4 games as a starter of 2006 to 2007 and put him in the HOF already?? Vincent Jackson is a nice comp to Marshall. Marshall topped his rookie #'s, should top his Year 2 #'s. Jackson's the trendy Year 3 WR. I expect Marshall to be the same if he can avoid further leg issues. Having Gates/Javon cancelling each other out, I like Marshall's upside post 2007 vs. Jackson's as he doesn't have to contend with a TD machine and pass catching monster in LT2 while in Denver. Henry will get his TD's, but won't catch a great deal of passes. Edited August 22, 2007 by cory_n_az Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilly Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 All I know is that I want to see some 4 wide-out sets this year, with Walker, Marshall, Smith and Stokley. I think that would be pretty tough to contain, as long as the O-line can give Cutler some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 If you guys are naive enough to think Javon isn't going to be a beast this year Marshall would be a good pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 All I know is that I want to see some 4 wide-out sets this year, with Walker, Marshall, Smith and Stokley. I think that would be pretty tough to contain, as long as the O-line can give Cutler some time. May take awhile-(from today) Bill Williamson, Denver Post - Denver WR Rod Smith will now most certainly start the season on the PUP list while he continues to recover from offseason hip surgery. But he could return to the team by Week 7 or 8 according to HC Mike Shanahan. Smith participated in some drills Tuesday that he previously was not able to do, thus the new level of optimism surrounding his return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) May take awhile-(from today)Bill Williamson, Denver Post - Denver WR Rod Smith will now most certainly start the season on the PUP list while he continues to recover from offseason hip surgery. But he could return to the team by Week 7 or 8 according to HC Mike Shanahan. Smith participated in some drills Tuesday that he previously was not able to do, thus the new level of optimism surrounding his return. How much loyalty does Shanny have to Smith if/when he comes back? Especially if Marshall is putting up decent numbers? Edited August 22, 2007 by TDFFFreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 How much loyalty does Shanny have to Smith if/when he comes back? Especially if Marshall is putting up decent numbers? You never know when it comes to Shanny, but I agree that Rod Smith will be WR#3 if/when he comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 i think you're getting a little ahead of yourself. right now, marshall is behind brandon stokley on the depth chart. there's still rod smith on this team also, and a slew of TEs who will be getting catches as well. expecting 80 grabs from marshall this year is totally unrealistic, IMO. Denver depth charts are like Tony Snow press conferences. You only reference them to see how plausible the lies are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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