With Clemens the 'roid freak on the defensive...

[I Like Soup]

Maddux and Glavine!!

 

OK, I admit I've been a Maddux and Glavine fan for many moons and have hated to see Clemens be so successful as I wanted my boy Maddux to be the pitcher of this generation that was the best. As time went on, I grew to appreciate what Clemens had done in his career. With the Mitchell report, along with probably many questioning people before its release, I think it is fairly evident that Clemens was doing 'roids of some sort. I know, guilty until proven innocent, but that is in a court of law.

 

So, Maddux and Glavine...two of the best over the course of a generation (and I gotta give the best to Maddux).

 

Flame on...

[whomper]

Randy Johnson gets some consideration..

[chiefjay]

Don't forget Smoltzie

[Pope Flick]

Randy Johnson gets some consideration..

 

 

The problem with this era, is that any pitcher -like Johnson- who suddenly has a career stat change from average to dominating is competely under suspicion.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnsra05.shtml

 

 

I respectfully submit that in this day and age, for a guy to have a career ERA hover in the upper 3's (until 1997) to drop consistnetly into the low 2's needs to be looked at skeptically.

 

Maddux won 15 games for 15 years.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/maddugr01.shtml

 

Note how he has one rookie year (1987) , then locks down. His era slides upwards as gets older.

[KSUChiefsTarheelFan]

Don't forget Smoltzie

Don't forget John Rocker!

[muck]

Note that Johnson's ERA dropped when he went to the NL (i.e., no DH's) ... which also coincided with record strikeouts (i.e., no DH's). The dude is tall and it took a little more time to get his control worked out. I have no problem with RJ's career.

[drbob]

The problem with this era, is that any pitcher -like Johnson- who suddenly has a career stat change from average to dominating is competely under suspicion.

 

[

 

The power was always there with Randy. It was the control that came later that made him so dominating. I don't think steroids will give a pitcher control.

[Pope Flick]

The power was always there with Randy. It was the control that came later that made him so dominating. I don't think steroids will give a pitcher control.

 

 

100% true, but what gets lost in this debate is that pitchers and hitters use steroids for 2 different reasons: hitters juice to add muscle to increase power. pitchers use juice to cut the recovery time between starts. So just because Clemens didn't morph into something along the lines of Barry (or grow a third ear from his forehead ) doesn't mean squat.

 

And I'll again respectfully submit that fatigue worsens control for pitchers. If they're not as tired, they're more likely to hit their spots more consistently. So while I hear what you're saying I go back to his sudden drop in ERA (around the time Rocket had his postBoston resurgence) in this time period should be looked at skeptically.

[wildcat2334]

100% true, but what gets lost in this debate is that pitchers and hitters use steroids for 2 different reasons: hitters juice to add muscle to increase power. pitchers use juice to cut the recovery time between starts. So just because Clemens didn't morph into something along the lines of Barry (or grow a third ear from his forehead ) doesn't mean squat.

 

And I'll again respectfully submit that fatigue worsens control for pitchers. If they're not as tired, they're more likely to hit their spots more consistently. So while I hear what you're saying I go back to his sudden drop in ERA (around the time Rocket had his postBoston resurgence) in this time period should be looked at skeptically.

 

 

werd-

 

as a Seattle Mariner fan, it would not surprise me at all if Randy juiced/HGH when he got older. Big misconception like Pope stated- a guy like BB is not the norm- As a whole, pitchers are the MOST guilty parties, and probably the biggest benefactors of roids and HGH- recovery.