obama volunteers told to share "conversion stories"

[Pope Flick]

right. ok, without looking off the top of my head....he broke the stalemate on judicial appointments with the "gang of 14", avoiding both a prolonged democratic filibuster and the republican "nuclear" option, while securing appointment of bush's nominees; he co-authored and passed bipartisan campaign finance reform; he voted against every tax increase proposal that ever came up; co-authored mccain-lieberman greenhouse legislation; he was a primary force behind normalizing relations with vietnam; he has long been the most influential voice in congress against pork spending, was a primary force behind the line-item veto even though the SC later struck it down; has been a leader on ethics reform, entitlement reform; he's put himself on the line taken principled stands that have been unpopular within his own party and/or with polls of the general public, from supporting the "surge", to vocally criticizing the rumsfeld strategy, to the gang of 14, to ethics and lobbying reform (taking on delay, other abramoff republicans), to voting against bush's massive medicaid expansion, to opposing his party on unfunded tax cuts, to trying to come up with pragmatic, bipartisan immigration reform.

 

i'm sort of embarrassed i can't think of more off the top of my head, but now that i've obliged, will you do the same for obama?

 

 

You were asked to say "one thing about mccain" and wrote a paragraph that could have been called The Art of the Artful Dodge. Now, an hour later you have "off the top of my head facts" when in fact "McCain/Feingold" would have been a two word, legit answer.

 

You're known for googling answers to sound smarter than you are, so here we go again. You passed on the question earlier and now have all the answers?

[tonorator]

right. ok, without looking off the top of my head....he broke the stalemate on judicial appointments with the "gang of 14", avoiding both a prolonged democratic filibuster and the republican "nuclear" option, while securing appointment of bush's nominees; he co-authored and passed bipartisan campaign finance reform; he voted against every tax increase proposal that ever came up; co-authored mccain-lieberman greenhouse legislation; he was a primary force behind normalizing relations with vietnam; he has long been the most influential voice in congress against pork spending, was a primary force behind the line-item veto even though the SC later struck it down; has been a leader on ethics reform, entitlement reform; he's put himself on the line taken principled stands that have been unpopular within his own party and/or with polls of the general public, from supporting the "surge", to vocally criticizing the rumsfeld strategy, to the gang of 14, to ethics and lobbying reform (taking on delay, other abramoff republicans), to voting against bush's massive medicaid expansion, to opposing his party on unfunded tax cuts, to trying to come up with pragmatic, bipartisan immigration reform.

 

i'm sort of embarrassed i can't think of more off the top of my head, but now that i've obliged, will you do the same for obama?

 

supporting something or "being a leader" or voting a certain way are pretty general claims. i could easily say that obama has done all these things on a variety of issues, including campaign finance reform, tax credits, education programs, etc. much of that is just being a senator, which they both are. he did co-author some legislation, but the effectivenss of mccain-feingold is extremely debatable. to my knowledge, none of his greenhouse gas stuff has ever been passed.

 

i understand your embarrassment.

[Azazello1313]

You were asked to say "one thing about mccain" and wrote a paragraph that could have been called The Art of the Artful Dodge. Now, an hour later you have "off the top of my head facts" when in fact "McCain/Feingold" would have been a two word, legit answer.

 

You're known for googling answers to sound smarter than you are, so here we go again. You passed on the question earlier and now have all the answers?

 

your hard-on for me is a little creepy. ton decided he wanted to compare "accomplishments" between mccain and obama, i replied that that would be pretty stupid. i said i wouldn't bother rattling off the long list of legislation he's been instrumental in passing. a "dodge"? do you really think i needed google to know that mccain was a driving force behind mccain-feingold, mccain-lieberman, the gang of 14, etc? speaking of the artful dodge, i asked you two days ago to "rattle off a few of obama's accomplishments".

[tonorator]

and i'm not trying to say that mccain isn't a decent guy who has done a lot with his life. i'm trying to point out the silliness of shoving a microphone in someone's face and asking for a list of accomplishments. for obama someone could say that he's been a state senator, a U.S. senator, an exciting presidential candidate and he is currently inspiring people across the country. those are accomplishments. mccain has been a soldier, putting his life on the line for his country, and has a distinguished career in the senate. those are accomplishments. the fox exercise was acting like since obama hasn't cured cancer, he shouldn't be running.

 

check out all the candidates, review what they want to do, decide if they would be an effective leader in working to get it done, and vote. quit it with the silly games.

[AtomicCEO]

your hard-on for me is a little creepy. ton decided he wanted to compare "accomplishments" between mccain and obama, i replied that that would be pretty stupid. i said i wouldn't bother rattling off the long list of legislation he's been instrumental in passing. a "dodge"? do you really think i needed google to know that mccain was a driving force behind mccain-feingold, mccain-lieberman, the gang of 14, etc? speaking of the artful dodge, i asked you two days ago to "rattle off a few of obama's accomplishments".

 

Someone needs a juicebox.

[Ursa Majoris]

i respect his service to our country, but i'm not sure i can call the guy a war hero. being an admiral's son who was captured? i've heard in addition to being captured he also crashed several planes.

I have no idea about the crashed planes but I will certainly take issue with him "not being a war hero". He survived 5 years in the Hanoi Hilton and multiple horrendous tortures and retains, as far as I'm aware, his sanity. That is enough for me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna line up with him but I certainly don't want to see any hint of swiftboating from the Democrats.

[Pope Flick]

your hard-on for me is a little creepy. ton decided he wanted to compare "accomplishments" between mccain and obama, i replied that that would be pretty stupid. i said i wouldn't bother rattling off the long list of legislation he's been instrumental in passing. a "dodge"? do you really think i needed google to know that mccain was a driving force behind mccain-feingold, mccain-lieberman, the gang of 14, etc? speaking of the artful dodge, i asked you two days ago to "rattle off a few of obama's accomplishments".

 

 

Your hard-on for my hard-on is creepier.

[TheShiznit]

right. ok, without looking off the top of my head....he broke the stalemate on judicial appointments with the "gang of 14", avoiding both a prolonged democratic filibuster and the republican "nuclear" option, while securing appointment of bush's nominees; he co-authored and passed bipartisan campaign finance reform; he voted against every tax increase proposal that ever came up; co-authored mccain-lieberman greenhouse legislation; he was a primary force behind normalizing relations with vietnam; he has long been the most influential voice in congress against pork spending, was a primary force behind the line-item veto even though the SC later struck it down; has been a leader on ethics reform, entitlement reform; he's put himself on the line taken principled stands that have been unpopular within his own party and/or with polls of the general public, from supporting the "surge", to vocally criticizing the rumsfeld strategy, to the gang of 14, to ethics and lobbying reform (taking on delay, other abramoff republicans), to voting against bush's massive medicaid expansion, to opposing his party on unfunded tax cuts, to trying to come up with pragmatic, bipartisan immigration reform.

 

i'm sort of embarrassed i can't think of more off the top of my head, but now that i've obliged, will you do the same for obama?

 

Don't forget, he was part of the Keating Five...you know....the largest scam us taxpayers had ever had to pay for besides Iraq...and was never held accountable for the money he got through backroom deals. Care to address that little tidbit.

[moneymakers]

obamas #1 and only accomplishment.

 

 

Knocked Hillery out of contention and put a republican in office for 4 more years.

[tonorator]

I have no idea about the crashed planes but I will certainly take issue with him "not being a war hero". He survived 5 years in the Hanoi Hilton and multiple horrendous tortures and retains, as far as I'm aware, his sanity. That is enough for me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna line up with him but I certainly don't want to see any hint of swiftboating from the Democrats.

 

call him a survivor, absolutely. i think of heroes as people saving lives vs. getting shot down and captured. again, tremendous respect for serving our country and i thank him for that service, but just playing doesn't mean hero to me. i'm not trying to swiftboat or downplay the fact that the guy served in the military, just as i would hope that his supporters won't overplay his service on the heroic side.

[TimC]

Ummmm, without peeking....Obama snorted enough cocaine to star in the next Scarface movie. Somehow though...I don't think that's what you were looking for.

[Azazello1313]

and i'm not trying to say that mccain isn't a decent guy who has done a lot with his life. i'm trying to point out the silliness of shoving a microphone in someone's face and asking for a list of accomplishments. for obama someone could say that he's been a state senator, a U.S. senator, an exciting presidential candidate and he is currently inspiring people across the country. those are accomplishments. mccain has been a soldier, putting his life on the line for his country, and has a distinguished career in the senate. those are accomplishments. the fox exercise was acting like since obama hasn't cured cancer, he shouldn't be running.

 

i agree with that, and i congratulate you for finally offering up an obama accomplishment (however weak). i also agree with the siliness of reading a whole lot into a handful of morans not being able to think on the spot, listing obama's primary achievement as "being a great ora-tator". i posted it because it is anecdotally amusing, relating to the whole "obama experience" in general. same with the "conversion stories, not policies" story. the whole phenomenon seems like puppy love to me, turning support a very straightforward, party-line democrat into some sort of messianic mystical awakening. it just seems a little hollow, and that is my only real point.

 

you ever see "being there"?

[Azazello1313]

Don't forget, he was part of the Keating Five...you know....the largest scam us taxpayers had ever had to pay for besides Iraq...and was never held accountable for the money he got through backroom deals. Care to address that little tidbit.

 

he was just a footsoldier

[Ursa Majoris]

the whole phenomenon seems like puppy love to me, turning support a very straightforward, party-line democrat into some sort of messianic mystical awakening. it just seems a little hollow, and that is my only real point.

It's not puppy love, it's hope that this time there really is someone not already bought and paid for by special interests, whichever side those interests might lie. That's really it, in a nutshell. Naive? Perhaps.

[Azazello1313]

It's not puppy love, it's hope that this time there really is someone not already bought and paid for by special interests, whichever side those interests might lie. That's really it, in a nutshell. Naive? Perhaps.

 

well, no one has done more over the last decade to thwart the influence of the special interests than john mccain. so welcome to the fold.

[bushwacked]

So, did yellow dog Democrats get as nervous as Az is leading up to the 1980 election?

[Azazello1313]

So, did yellow dog Democrats get as nervous as Az is leading up to the 1980 election?

 

yer boy needs to get by billary before i worry.

[TimC]

In 1980, we elected the Greatest President any of us will ever see in our lifetime. No way do any of these idjuts come close. No matter which side wins.

Edited February 8, 2008 by TimC

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Straight Talk Express

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

More "straight talk" from the "Maverick":

 

DNC: Lobbyist-Express, Not Straight-Talk Express, Drives McCain Campaign

 

 

 

With 58 Lobbyists On Board, McCain Has Lost Credibility on Pork and

Lobbyists

 

 

 

WASHINGTON, Feb. 1 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The following is being

issued by the Democratic National Committee:

 

 

 

Trying to cement his place as the Bush establishment candidate, John

McCain turned his back on his principles with a do-anything-to-win strategy

that includes ignoring his past rhetoric on pork projects and the influence

of lobbyists to benefit his presidential campaign. An independent review

conducted by the advocacy group Public Citizen and released earlier this

week "found that McCain has more bundlers -- people who gather checks from

their networks of friends and associates -- than any other presidential

candidate from either party." The review noted that "McCain has at least 58

federal lobbyists raising money for his campaign." [washingtonpost.com,

01/29/08]

 

 

 

 

 

"It's clear that the Lobbyist-Express, not the Straight-Talk Express,

is what's driving John McCain's campaign," said Democratic National

Committee spokesman Luis Miranda. "From staffing his campaign with

lobbyists, to questions over his role as head of the Commerce and Indian

Affairs Committees, to pork projects of his own, McCain has made it clear

his credibility is not as important as his personal political ambitions."

 

 

 

Lobbyists Driving Double-Talk Express

 

 

 

McCain's Campaign Has More Lobbyist Bundlers Than Any Other. A review

released this week by the advocacy group Public Citizen found that John

McCain "has at least 58 federal lobbyists raising money for his campaign."

Another 35 lobbyists were reported to be bundling for Rudolph Giuliani, who

has now endorsed McCain. [washingtonpost.com, 01/29/08]

 

 

 

McCain Campaign Managed by Lobbyist Tom Davis. "McCain's campaign has

also been guided by lobbyists. Davis, the campaign manager, is a former

lobbyist who represented major telecommunications companies. The campaign's

senior adviser is Charles R. Black Jr., chairman of BKSH & Associates,

which represents drug companies, an oil company, an automaker, a

telecommunications company, defense contractors and the steel industry,

among others... Other occasional McCain advisers include lobbyists Timothy

P. McKone of AT&T, Robert S. Aiken of Phoenix-based Pinnacle West Capital,

John W. Timmons of the Cormac Group and John Green of Ogilvy Government

Relations. Also at Ogilvy is a major McCain fundraiser, Wayne L. Berman.

Their firms' clients have been a significant source of contributions to

McCain's campaign. Executives for the clients of Ogilvy Government

Relations gave at least $271,000 for McCain's presidential bid. Loeffler

Group client employees donated $118,500, according to a Washington Post

analysis. BKSH clients' executives gave $24,000." [Washington Post,

12/31/07]

 

 

 

McCain Hates Pork, Just Not His Own

 

 

 

McCain Fights Other's Pork, Pushes His Own. "Arizona Sen. John McCain

is sponsoring two interesting pieces of legislation. One mounts a direct

assault on congressional earmarks, those little morsels of home district

pork that lawmakers slip into unrelated spending bills. The other steers

$10 million to the University of Arizona to launch an academic center

honoring the late Supreme Court Chief Justice William Rehnquist. Yes,

McCain does seem to be saying to himself: Stop me before I sin again.

McCain and co-sponsor Jon Kyl, Arizona's other GOP senator, insist their

pork proposal isn't hypocritical because they aren't trying to hide

anything. It is set out in stand-alone legislation to be vetted on its own

merits. In Congress, it seems, the only bad pork projects are those

sponsored by somebody else." [Chicago Tribune, 3/4/06]

 

 

 

McCain Broke His Own Pork-Barrel Spending Rules. "After years of

crusading against 'pork-barrel' spending projects in Congressional

appropriations bills, Senator McCain may be breaking his own rules. McCain

pushed for, and got, $14.3 million for Arizona's Luke Air Force Base

inserted into the just-completed fiscal 2004 military construction

appropriations conference report. The only problem is the project to

acquire more land near the base was not requested. [Roll Call, 11/6/03]

 

 

 

McCain's Chief Fundraiser Earned $3.9 Million for Creating $40 Million

in Federal Pork. McCain's new Presidential campaign consigliere, and chief

fundraising strategist, Tom Loeffler, founder of Loeffler Group has spent

much of the last decade as a lobbyist. According to documents filed with

the Secretary of the Senate, Loeffler and his associates have collected

$3,920,000 over the years lobbying for the Texas cities of San Antonio,

Houston, Pharr, Donna and Mercedes. In return, according to Citizens

Against Government Waste, the cities received $40 Million and possibly more

in Federal Government pork. [Politico, 4/4/07; Washington Post, 4/4/07;

Lobbyist Disclosure Documents Filled with Secretary of the Senate, Citizens

Against Government Waste Pig Book 2003-06]

 

 

 

McCain's Committees

 

 

 

McCain Pledged Not to Investigate Republican Colleagues for Their

Illegal or Unethical Behavior. John McCain's Indian Affairs Committee

hearings failed to go after federal lawmakers who benefited from Jack

Abramoff's lobbying. "McCain said his committee continues to examine all

the financial angles of where the $82 million ended up, as well as other

political and charitable contributions the tribes made at Abramoff's

request. But he reiterated that he was following the money trail, not the

legislative actions taken by Members of Congress. 'We stop when we find out

where the money went,' he said." [Roll Call, 3/10/05]

 

 

 

McCain's Conduct as Chairman of Senate Commerce Committee Questioned.

According to the Washington Post, "McCain's conduct as chairman of the

powerful Senate Commerce Committee between 1997 and 2004 has occasionally

raised questions."

 

 

 

-- "In 2003 and 2004, for example, McCain took two actions favorable to

Cablevision, the cable TV company, while Davis, his chief political

strategist at the time, solicited the company for a total of $200,000 for

the Reform Institute, a tax-exempt group that advocated an end to outsize

political donations. Davis solicited an initial donation from Cablevision

chief Charles Dolan a week after Dolan testified before the Senate Commerce

Committee in favor of a position backed by McCain. Davis said there was no

connection between the testimony and the solicitation. Less than a year

later, McCain wrote to the Federal Communications Commission recommending

Cablevision's position on cable pricing, citing Dolan by name. Cablevision

followed soon thereafter with a second $100,000 donation, the Associated

Press reported."

 

 

 

-- "In 1999, McCain wrote a letter as committee chairman on behalf of

longtime political supporter Lowell 'Bud' Paxson, urging the FCC to vote on

a long-delayed decision whether to approve the sale of a Pittsburgh

television station to Paxson's company. McCain had flown on Paxson's

corporate jet four times to appear at campaign events around that time, and

had received $20,000 from campaign donations from Paxson and its law firm,

the Boston Globe reported. The FCC chairman at the time, William Kennard,

called McCain's intervention 'highly unusual,' but the senator denied doing

any favors." [Washington Post, 12/31/07]

 

 

 

Paid for and authorized by the Democratic National Committee,

http://www.democrats.org.

 

This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate's

committee.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SOURCE Democratic National Committee

[Azazello1313]

sounds like howard dean is getting nervous

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

sounds like howard dean is getting nervous

 

Nice side step.

 

Edited February 8, 2008 by CaP'N GRuNGe

[Azazello1313]

Nice side step.

 

 

is this better?

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

is this better?

 

yes

[bushwacked]

In 1980, we elected the Greatest President any of us will ever see in our lifetime. No way do any of these idjuts come close. No matter which side wins.

 

 

Well, Obama doesn't have the advantage of being from the Hollywood elite like Regan did. I just want to see us win one for the Gipper.

 

Maybe If Obama's wife commits to looking at stars to set national policy in the midst of a potential debilitating disease we can get you yellow dog Republicans to feel more comfy about the impending doom. And by doom, I mean things going better for America. It's a plus plus...at the end of the day....net net.