PETA Likens AKC to the KKK

[detlef]

Yes the AKC goes by the looks of a dog and how that dog and it's temperment would perform in the field... A Lab in the sporting division would have to be an athletic build with a strong jaw and an "otter like" tail all of these for obvious reasons... along with a coat that allows the animal to not get cold after swimming in ice cold water... so yes looks and build are important to dogs! A rat terrier needs a long nose so he can get into tight places when looking for rats.... etc...

Of course, it makes way more sense to judge how a sporting dog might be able to swim based on his tail than actually seeing which one is the best swimmer.

 

Michael Johnson's running style was horrible. He ran comlpletely upright, even leaning back. Very poor form indeed but that was little consolation to the rest of the field who only got to see him from behind.

 

My point still remains, and you even made it more so with your bit about the bulldog. Selectively breeding a dog to that extreme is insane. Getting super hung-up on traits in a dog that may never really matter is at least odd. I mean, my mutt hound lab mix loves to swim. I'm sure she'd be faster if she had some other physical traits, but what the hell does that matter? I throw a stick in the water, she jumps in, she gets it, brings it to me, repeat. I'd have to say that for the vast majority of people who own the types of dogs who like to swim, that's the same drill. So, why is it such a big deal?

 

That and other like instances open the AKC to justifiable ridicule. That's really it. My comments were not intended to slam anyone who likes purebred breeds, rather to point out to those outraged that anyone would take a shot at the AKC need to step back and look at the whole picture.

[detlef]

Who cares if someone buys a dog for its looks anyway. Jeebus H Chrimany.

Well, that mentality hits rather insane extremes when people bring dogs to the pound because they no longer match their decor.

[Hugh 0ne]

Most breeders breed dogs to better the breed. If you don't like it or don't understand it, that's fine. You throw generalizations out there as if they're the norm, which is unfair. You don't like pure breds, that's fine. Getting dogs from the pound or getting mixed breeds is cool. But to generalize dog breeders as lunatics comparable to PETA is ridiculous. But you can't be argued or reasoned with, so I'll just leave it at that.

[The Irish Doggy]

Well, that mentality hits rather insane extremes when people bring dogs to the pound because they no longer match their decor.

 

 

That doesn't have a thing to do with the breed. You have bad people not a bad dog.

[TimC]

If you breed the biggest, fastest black dog to the biggest, fastest black bitch, what do you get?

[The Irish Doggy]

If you breed the biggest, fastest black dog to the biggest, fastest black bitch, what do you get?

 

 

Darth Vader

[detlef]

Most breeders breed dogs to better the breed. If you don't like it or don't understand it, that's fine. You throw generalizations out there as if they're the norm, which is unfair. You don't like pure breds, that's fine. Getting dogs from the pound or getting mixed breeds is cool. But to generalize dog breeders as lunatics comparable to PETA is ridiculous. But you can't be argued or reasoned with, so I'll just leave it at that.

I have only claimed that there is enough of a fanatic element in the AKC that people should not be outraged at the fact that someone has taken shots at the group. Never have I said that everyone who is into breeding is wrong or owning a pure breed is wrong. Rather that there are certainly those who take it far enough to justifiably bring flack on to the group as a whole. Don't claim that I can't be reasoned with if you insist upon skewing my points.

 

People take shots at the excesses of pro ball players. Even those who are cool are man enough to admit that they understand why the excesses of a few cause people to react the way they do. They might go on to claim that one should not paint the entire league with a broad brush, but they don't stamp their feet and yell that nobody should ever take shots at how pro ball players should conduct themselves in public. Why? Because they realize that plenty act like fools.

 

If your point is that not all those into breeding are lunatics, you needen't bother because I realize that. I'm also rather certain that even the majority are reasonable people who love their dogs as much or more than most. None the less, I've seen enough with my own eyes to realize that there are plenty who fit what I'm talking about.

[TimC]

Darth Vader

 

I thought Darth Vader was in the NAACP, not the Klan?

[detlef]

That doesn't have a thing to do with the breed. You have bad people not a bad dog.

I'm not implying that it has anything to do with the breed or the dog. I'm saying it has everything to do with the person.

[Big Country]

Picking a dog is like picking a wife.

 

Sure, looks matter to an extent for some, but temperment is the primary factor.

 

If this were not true, why are so many ugly women married?

 

Det, the dog shows are just like the beauty pageants. It is based on the look fo the dog, not the functionality of the dog. That is fine, It is what it is.

 

If you want a test of the fuctionality of the dog, watch those random ESPN8 dog herding, jumping, retrieving, agility, etc. shows that do test the dogs on their functionality, looks be damned. That is fine, it is what it is.

[detlef]

Picking a dog is like picking a wife.

 

Sure, looks matter to an extent for some, but temperment is the primary factor.

 

If this were not true, why are so many ugly women married?

 

Det, the dog shows are just like the beauty pageants. It is based on the look fo the dog, not the functionality of the dog. That is fine, It is what it is.

 

If you want a test of the fuctionality of the dog, watch those random ESPN8 dog herding, jumping, retrieving, agility, etc. shows that do test the dogs on their functionality, looks be damned. That is fine, it is what it is.

I understand entirely what you are saying. However, it should be noted that dog shows are beyond beauty pageants. As I mentioned earlier, beauty pageants actually bother to test them on things besides looks. Even with regards to looks, they aren't so dogmatically scrutinzed against a very specifc standard.

 

Of course, the insanity that can drive the entire human beauty pageant world is oft documented and mocked. I have learned, however, that if anyone dares to mock this even more extreme version of a beauty pageant, they should prepare for the wrath of many.

[Ursa Majoris]

PETA

 

Animal Rights > Human Rights

Not necessarily the case at all.

[wirehairman]

Why is it then, that the Super Bowl of Purebred dogs is all about physical atributes? Why, for instance are all those dogs on leads? Many of them jerking around while on that lead? Is it not too much to ask of the dogs that have made it to the finals of that thing to be able to behave off leash? They don't judge the hunting dogs by how many birds they can get. They don't judge the working dogs by how many sheep they can corral. No, they judge them on whether or not their jaw is the right shape. What the hell is that?

 

As a point of clarification, the AKC also hosts inumerable hunt tests, field trials, those agility tests you keep mentioning, herding trials, and many other events across the country. They are just not shown on national television.

[whomper]

TimCs dog is the best

[Azazello1313]

Perhaps you have chosen a breed that is known to be good with kids because you have youngins. That's great.

 

but hugh chose a breed known for its stupidity and hyperactivity.

[TimC]

TimCs dog is the best

 

Which one is cooler?

 

The old mixed breed mutt from the pound and her sister

 

or

 

the constantly-whining never-shuts-up hyperactive pure bred that thinks the camera is stealing her soul?

 

 

I love my labs, Bootsie and Chalkie, more than all of my family.

Edited February 14, 2008 by TimC

[isleseeya]

Darth Vader

 

 

Tomlinson ?

[Hugh 0ne]

but hugh chose a breed known for its stupidity and hyperactivity.

 

We prefer the terms stubborness and high energy.

[whomper]

Which one is cooler?

 

The old mixed breed mutt from the pound

 

 

Oh yeah..Thats the shot . I have that and the wiegie avatar on a loop as my screensaver

[detlef]

As a point of clarification, the AKC also hosts inumerable hunt tests, field trials, those agility tests you keep mentioning, herding trials, and many other events across the country. They are just not shown on national television.

You don't think it's a bit strange that all the competitions that actually test the dogs themselves get shown on tape delay on random TV and the one where they measure their jaws and speculate on how good they would be at what they're supposed to be good at is shown on prime time?

 

Think of the Super Bowl. That's like making a big deal over televising a combine where they measure how long the two kickers legs are and how flexible they are to determine which would kick the winning FG. Where they have both teams walk around in speedos and judges decide which team looks best. Then they crown a winner and that gets carried on all the news stations the next day.

 

Then, as an afterthought, they go ahead and play the game itself in Des Moines and show it on Versus at 1am.

[wirehairman]

You don't think it's a bit strange that all the competitions that actually test the dogs themselves get shown on tape delay on random TV and the one where they measure their jaws and speculate on how good they would be at what they're supposed to be good at is shown on prime time?

 

Think of the Super Bowl. That's like making a big deal over televising a combine where they measure how long the two kickers legs are and how flexible they are to determine which would kick the winning FG. Where they have both teams walk around in speedos and judges decide which team looks best. Then they crown a winner and that gets carried on all the news stations the next day.

 

Then, as an afterthought, they go ahead and play the game itself in Des Moines and show it on Versus at 1am.

 

Setting up cameras to film a bunch of well groomed dogs trotting around an arena is fairly simple. Filming working bird dogs off horseback for several days straight in all weather conditions is not. At the same time, the general population likes to ooh and ahh over the "cute little puppies" and would likely be bored stiff watching a brace of good pointers laying it out there for three hours with only four or five bird contacts in that time.

 

This is only speaking from the sport/breeds I am familiar with. I don't know why the agility contests and herding contests are not televised more regularly as I think they would have some appeal to the masses, particularly the agility tests.

Edited February 15, 2008 by wirehairman

[Azazello1313]

Setting up cameras to film a bunch of well groomed dogs trotting around an arena is fairly simple. Filming working bird dogs off horseback for several days straight in all weather conditions is not. At the same time, the general population likes to ooh and ahh over the "cute little puppies" and would likely be bored stiff watching a brace of good pointers laying it out there for three hours with only four or five bird contacts in that time.

 

This is only speaking from the sport/breeds I am familiar with. I don't know why the agility contests and herding contests are not televised more regularly as I think they would have some appeal to the masses, particularly the agility tests.

 

yeah but i think detlef's point is that the AKC specifically only cares about physical appearance and conformity to a standard. in the herding/hunting/retrieving type contests, can't you usually enter any breed of dog you want (or even a pig as we saw in 'babe' )? that makes it a totally separate animal from what i think detlef was talking about.

[detlef]

I am a huge believer in purebred dogs and breeding them along the lines that the specific breed was intended... Most people want a dog that has a certain temp. and disposition...as I have said some of the mutts I have had are great dogs and I wouldn't trade them for the world. Breeders who run "puppy mills" without regard for the breed or genetics are the ones that should be out of business. But PETA likes to cast it's extremist net and not show the benefits of a well bred dog, it would rahter show purebreed dogs as the bad guy and somehow responsible for pet overpopulation along with the AKC.

I also think that the AKC has it's own faults and has destroyed some breeds of dog due to it's definiton of that breed. They have completly destroyed the English Bulldog to where it can't breed naturally (artificial insemination) can't whelp naturally (Cesarian) has breathing problems, hip problems etc... they have taken a once great working dog and turned it into the worlds greatest couch potato!

The more I think of it, the more this post here is the root of my issues with the AKC. It's pretty clear that sundaynfl likes the AKC. Of course, he admits that he's not entirely pleased with everything they do (which I'm pretty sure all of us could say about things we're affiliated with). Then he goes on to mention one such instance of a "fault". However, what he sees as a "fault", I see as freaking lunacy. Never mind the humane issues, I'm talking about the perverse level of obsession one would have to possess to selectively breed a dog to the extent that it can no longer function in some very basic manner with regard to it's role as a species. That's freaking crazy! Plain and simple. Breeding some mutant dog with an turkey baster and then having to slice it open to get the babies because you've made it so that's the only way it works is freaking crazy. Easily as crazy as the BS that PETA pulls off.

 

Thus, the glass houses rule. Don't call PETA crazy for calling out the AKC if your group endorses that sort of activity.

 

This does not mean that everyone who has a purebred is crazy.

 

And before anyone starts pointing out the fact that this sort of extreme selective breeding happens all the time with livestock, you'd better either be a vegetarian or be willing to say that you don't like dogs anymore than the chicken on your plate or I'm calling BS. I understand that I am showing a double standard here. However, I have no problem admitting that I place dogs higher than livestock on the pecking order.

Edited February 15, 2008 by detlef