Goodell, what do you think?

[LooGie]

A few people have criticized Goodell and his strict ways, and even said he has a "god complex". I just couldn't disagree more. Are we so used to mega-millionaire, role model to today's youth super stars, getting slaps on the wrist, or buying their way out of trouble, that when a power-that-be actually punishes them to the fullest extent, we criticize him?

I think Goodell has reacted almost beautifully in every situation that's arisen.

 

From Inmate #7 to Spygate, to roids and everything else, Goodell portrays the sense he genuinely cares what America thinks of this sport, and it's members and organizations.. He certaintly won't put up with nonsense, and while he's strict as they come, i dont think he's been overly strict at all.

I think he's been masterful in his decisions, and totally justified in his punishments. Waiting until Vick pleads guilty before announcing his INDEFINITE suspension. For the first time in sports history, the punishments are fitting the crimes.

 

Now, as far as small details, the fines are out of control. The uniforms and little nonsense stuff like is just fine, BUT when someone makes $30mil -- $5k is chump change, and while the punishment doesn't fit THE CRIME, it certainly fits the "CRIMINAL".

 

I applaud Goodell and everything he's done so far. What is your take? I'm really interested to see where this goes.

[piratesownninjas]

I applaud Goodell and everything he's done so far. What is your take? I'm really interested to see where this goes.

Yeah, the games in London are great too.

[Bill Swerski]

Yeah, the games in London are great too.

 

Yeah, not to mention Goodell's decision to unnecessarily destroy all of the Pats' illegally-taped material. Holy cover-up, Batman!

 

I like what Goodell has done disciplinary-wise, but he's a complete weasel. He cares about the league's image and, most importantly, its ability to make money... and that's about it.

[Sturphy]

I think it's still a little early to tell, but so far I'm with you on Goodell. I like what I've seen and I'm surprised by the heat he's been taking.

 

The destroyed spygate tapes are the only chink in his armor for me to date.

[Sturphy]

Yeah, the games in London are great too.

I'm sure Tagliabue or and other commish would've headed down this path. This was probably all conceived of while Tags was still around anyway.

[Sturphy]

He cares about the league's image and, most importantly, its ability to make money... and that's about it.

I reckon that's most of his job description.

[LooGie]

I think it's still a little early to tell, but so far I'm with you on Goodell. I like what I've seen and I'm surprised by the heat he's been taking.

 

The destroyed spygate tapes are the only chink in his armor for me to date.

 

 

I'm sure Tagliabue or and other commish would've headed down this path. This was probably all conceived of while Tags was still around anyway.

 

 

I reckon that's most of his job description.

Damn, me and you are 100% in agreement on all these things. The destroyed tapes are absolutely mind boggling, and more than a chink if you ask me. If Goodell had to answer to Goodell, you could bet he'd be suspended for that crap.

But that's not the 'God complex' issue, tha't's a whole other topic, and one i'm simply infatuated with. Totally amazing.

 

Anyway, the London games, i mean, come on-- Did you really think the NFL was never going global on a severe scale? Especially after the death of Europa? They've conquered America, so where's the rest of the money at? yup, every other damn country. You can't fault the guy for doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing, in places where it's accepted, applauded and most importantly, PAID.

 

Other countries are pretty smart. They know a scrimmage game, or 3rd string players, or even "OK YOU GOT ONE MORE CHANCE, DONT SMOKE POT WHILE YOU'RE THERE" players are not the same as a real life, NFL, season game. There is no way to expand globally w/o actually, expanding the NFL as we know it, globally.

As much as it sucks for us selfish Americans, there is no other way to do it, and once again, he nailed it in his decision.

[Bill Swerski]

I reckon that's most of his job description.

 

So, making as much money as humanly possible without regard for the long-term viability of the game is Goodell's job?

 

Anyway, the London games, i mean, come on-- Did you really think the NFL was never going global on a severe scale? Especially after the death of Europa? They've conquered America, so where's the rest of the money at? yup, every other damn country. You can't fault the guy for doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing, in places where it's accepted, applauded and most importantly, PAID.

 

Other countries are pretty smart. They know a scrimmage game, or 3rd string players, or even "OK YOU GOT ONE MORE CHANCE, DONT SMOKE POT WHILE YOU'RE THERE" players are not the same as a real life, NFL, season game. There is no way to expand globally w/o actually, expanding the NFL as we know it, globally.

As much as it sucks for us selfish Americans, there is no other way to do it, and once again, he nailed it in his decision.

 

Well, that's the whole point. If football is indeed "America's Game", Goodell should be catering to AMERICANS, rather than alienating them by playing regular-season games in London. Nobody in Britain/Western Europe gives a crap about the NFL, as "Europa" clearly showed. And there's no way that's going to change until they get a professional team (and even then, it's far from a given). Games in America are already borderline-unaffordable and moving them to Europe just pisses American fans off even more.

 

And if Goodell wants to exploit foreign markets, why not have regular-season games in Toronto or Montreal instead? Unlike Europe, those markets are good for something other than a quick-but-unsustainable buck. Canadians actually follow football, and it would be very possible to put an expansion teams in those cities. On the other hand, it would be impossible to fly multiple teams back and forth across the Atlantic every week with the current schedule.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[Sturphy]

So, making as much money as humanly possible without regard for the long-term viability of the game is Goodell's job?

 

You can make a lot of money and maintain the long term viability. What's your basis for this? I just wanna know where you're coming from.

 

Did he put sponsors on spamshirts? If he was all about the coin and not the integrity of the game, he wouldn't have caved on the NFL Network broadcast of the last Patriots game of the season.

 

Well, that's the whole point. If football is indeed "America's Game", Goodell should be catering to AMERICANS, rather than alienating them by playing regular-season games in London. Nobody in Britain/Western Europe gives a crap about the NFL, as "Europa" clearly showed. And there's no way that's going to change until they get a professional team (and even then, it's far from a given). Why not have regular-season games in Toronto or Montreal instead? Canadians actually follow football, and it would be very possible to put an expansion teams in those cities. On the other hand, it would be impossible to fly multiple teams back and forth across the Atlantic every week with the current schedule.

 

Well, we can all look forward to the game in China. Isn't that this coming season? I wonder how many people will be at that game. I'm guessing it'll be enormous.

 

ETA: I'm NOT a fan of the international games. It's just good business to try and go international.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Sturphy

[Bill Swerski]

You can make a lot of money and maintain the long term viability. What's your basis for this? I just wanna know where you're coming from.

 

Well, we can all look forward to the game in China. Isn't that this coming season? I wonder how many people will be at that game. I'm guessing it'll be enormous.

 

Yeah, I suppose that a ton of people in Beijing will go see that first NFL game. But why do you need to sacrifice a regular-season game and piss off a bunch of American fans (your bread and butter) who wanted to see it in person in here? Why not just play a pre-season game overseas? Nobody here cares about the pre-season and nobody over there would know the difference anyway. And if that wasn't bad enough, we heard chatter last year about the NFL playing the Super Bowl outside of America. Sure, the NFL would make a ton of coin by playing the SB in London... but at what price? I can't speak for others here, but I'd be f'n furious at the league if they went ahead with that. And I'd be out-of-my-mind pissed if I lived in L.A. Goodell is playing regular-season games in London and wants to move the SB to an international stage, but hasn't lifted a finger to get a team into the second-largest market in the county? Talking about biting the hand that feeds you...

 

Did he put sponsors on spamshirts? If he was all about the coin and not the integrity of the game, he wouldn't have caved on the NFL Network broadcast of the last Patriots game of the season.

 

Yeah, Goodell was sure a swell guy by not stooping down to NASCAR's level with regard to advertising. And he was showing nothing but selflessness by showing the Patriots/Giants game on his own proprietary network that he's using (in conjunction with the league's exclusive megabucks deal with a certain satellite provider) to muscle the cable companies.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[LooGie]

Well, that's the whole point. If football is indeed "America's Game", Goodell should be catering to AMERICANS, rather than alienating them by playing regular-season games in London. Nobody in Britain/Western Europe gives a crap about the NFL, as "Europa" clearly showed. And there's no way that's going to change until they get a professional team (and even then, it's far from a given). Games in America are already borderline-unaffordable and moving them to Europe just pisses American fans off even more.

 

And if Goodell wants to exploit foreign markets, why not have regular-season games in Toronto or Montreal instead? Unlike Europe, those markets are good for something other than a quick-but-unsustainable buck. Canadians actually follow football, and it would be very possible to put an expansion teams in those cities. On the other hand, it would be impossible to fly multiple teams back and forth across the Atlantic every week with the current schedule.

You're mention of Europa, is the same for my reason for mentioning Europa, as well as why I said other countries know the difference from that, and a real life, nfl season game. So you sorta proved my point there. Plus, both Mexico and London had HUGH turn outs. Better than anyone hoped for.

They dont need to "cater" to us American's in the sense you're implying. They've conqured us. This country is theirs, Now, it's about the rest of the world, and there's no other way to do it, but send a few teams, a few times a year, to a few other countries. It's just something we gotta deal with. Goodbye Europa, and hello the actual N F L. And while you and I and eveyrone else knows flying multiple teams back and forth every week isn't what they are intending, you proved it's not gonna happen anyway, because, as you said, "it would be impossible....with the current schedule". So no worries of that.

 

And I dont think expnading 2 hrs into Canada is their idea of going global, ya know?

 

What the pricing of games here, has to do with taking games oversees, i dont see your point of, (unless we're talking season tickets -- which has some validity, and could be another debate in itself) so I'll just skip that point, unless you wanna elaborate.

 

Saying global expanding is "a quick-but-unsustainable buck" is..well......laughable. The one game a year right now may be, but the expansion to other countries is more than worth it. Europeans have shown their obsessive support for many MANY diffferent sports, and there's no reason American Football couldn't be another one of those sports. No reason it won't be actually, unless the NFL does it half-assed, which is what Europa was, or overseas pre-season games would be.

 

 

Well, we can all look forward to the game in China. Isn't that this coming season? I wonder how many people will be at that game. I'm guessing it'll be enormous.

 

ETA: I'm NOT a fan of the international games. It's just good business to try and go international.

 

The China game, will be astronomical. Beyond comprehension i bet

Now I'm not saying I like these games, or even approve of them. I think if they should be going oversees, it should be type of reward game, where it's still a regular season game, but only the top 2 seeds from the previous year get to go, or the best dressed, or whatever the hell you wanna say. But what I am saying, is that if they're going to expand globally, which they are, there is not one single better way to do it.

[Sturphy]

And if that wasn't bad enough, we heard chatter last year about the NFL playing the Super Bowl outside of America.

Yeah, that would probably suck. Again, I don't like the overseas nonsense, but if it wasn't Goodell, it would have been anyone else.

Yeah, Goodell was sure a swell guy by not stooping down to NASCAR's level with regard to advertising. And he was showing nothing but selflessness by showing the Patriots/Giants game on his own proprietary network that he's using (in conjunction with the league's exclusive megabucks deal with a certain satellite provider) to muscle the cable companies.

Muscle the cable companies into what? Putting the NFL Network in their basic package so more people can see it? They already carry the channel. Putting games on it is the logical step.

 

Any deal the NFL makes in the distribution of their product is going to be a megabucks deal, that's what it's worth. Who would pay megabucks and then not want an exclusive deal?

 

It's early to judge Goodell, but he is running a business and a wildly successful and public one at that. I don't think he's doing too badly.

[LooGie]

Goodell is playing regular-season games in London and wants to move the SB to an international stage, but hasn't lifted a finger to get a team into the second-largest market in the county? Talking about biting the hand that feeds you...

Yah, the other umpteen teams that have played in LA were so overly popular that they had to move for safety reasons...

And we're not even talking about expansion teams man. Not in LA, or London, or China or Mars. We're talking expanding THE FAN BASE.

 

 

Yeah, Goodell was sure a swell guy by not stooping down to NASCAR's level with regard to advertising. And he was showing nothing but selflessness by showing the Patriots/Giants game on his own proprietary network that he's using (in conjunction with the league's exclusive megabucks deal with a certain satellite provider) to muscle the cable companies.

I really dont get this statement. If it was all about the coin, and not the single (arguably anyway) most important regular season game in NFL history, then he could've just kept it "on his own proprietary network that he's using (in conjunction with the league's exclusive megabucks deal with a certain satellite provider) to muscle the cable companies."

So, he's all about the coin, because they had commercials in it?

[Bill Swerski]

They dont need to "cater" to us American's in the sense you're implying. They've conqured us. This country is theirs, Now, it's about the rest of the world

 

I'll bet that MLB thought the same thing back in the '50s and the NBA thought the same back in the early '90s. They're both shells of what they were in their primes and they've both (more or less) failed to expand their leagues beyond our borders.

 

You can't "conquer" fans and then put out an inferior product and/or treat them like crap and expect to sustain a popularity boom. Fan support is dynamic and fickle. I understand the league's need to make a buck, but doing it at the expense of its major source of income isn't an intelligent thing to do over the long term.

 

Muscle the cable companies into what? Putting the NFL Network in their basic package so more people can see it?

 

That's just the beginning. The league will be moving all of their games onto NFL Network sometime in the foreseeable future. And if the current price tag of the Sunday Ticket is any indication, they're going to charge out the arse for pay-per-view rights.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[Bill Swerski]

Yah, the other umpteen teams that have played in LA were so overly popular that they had to move for safety reasons...

And we're not even talking about expansion teams man. Not in LA, or London, or China or Mars. We're talking expanding THE FAN BASE.

 

No, they moved because of the cost of living/building in L.A. Owners can get partial stadium funding from the city/state virtually anywhere else. But tax increase proposals in L.A./Orange County consistently get voted down. Why would an owner spend $2 billion to build a new stadium in Anaheim when it costs half as much to build it in Nashville or Houston and the city/state will pick up half of the tab?

Edited February 27, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[Sturphy]

they're going to charge out the arse for pay-per-view rights.

I could see them getting into a pay-per-view internet delivery of specific games. But, I'd be surprised if it ever got to "charge out the arse" levels. They have megabucks deals with the networks too and those networks want to keep doing business.

 

The major networks are still the best way to get your product out there and the NFL is a monster part of their business.

 

I'm not buying that we're headed for, "Hey Bill, wanna come over Sunday? I paid $100 for the Colts game." And that there's no other way to get it.

[Bill Swerski]

I could see them getting into a pay-per-view internet delivery of specific games. But, I'd be surprised if it ever got to "charge out the arse" levels.

 

LOL, are you kidding me? They already charge $270 for the Sunday Ticket. IIRC, that price has gone up about $100 since its inception. How much more expensive do you suppose it'll be to watch an out-of-market game on TV in another 5 or 10 years?

 

The major networks are still the best way to get your product out there and the NFL is a monster part of their business.

 

But for how much longer? Look at the games that NFL Network has been sucking up from the networks over the past couple of years... it's been one a week from Thanksgiving through the end of the season. The trend is clearly taking free games off of the networks and charging for them.

 

I'm not buying that we're headed for, "Hey Bill, wanna come over Sunday? I paid $100 for the Colts game." And that there's no other way to get it.

 

I don't think that $20 will be out of the question five years from now. By then it'll cost about $100 to get nosebleed seats at the stadium.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[Sturphy]

LOL, are you kidding me? They already charge $270 for the Sunday Ticket. IIRC, that price has gone up about $100 since its inception. How much more expensive do you suppose it'll be to watch an out-of-market game on TV in another 5 or 10 years?

You can still watch a number of games free every weekend. Before the Sunday Ticket, that's what we had. In fact, we probably had fewer free games. When did the Sunday evening game start? I can't remember, has it always been there? What was life like before ATMs?

 

So, $270 gets you all the games, which you couldn't do before its inception.

But for how much longer? Look at the games that NFL Network has been sucking up from the networks over the past couple of years... it's been one a week from Thanksgiving through the end of the season. The trend is clearly taking free games off of the networks and charging for them.

I don't think that $20 will be out of the question five years from now. By then it'll cost about $100 to get nosebleed seats at the stadium.

Maybe. Let's get back to Goodell, do we think this is all his doing? NFL Network was started in 2003 under Tags and it's crazy to think that Goodell is the one making all these business decisions anyway. He works for the owners. The owners created the NFL Network. I'm sure the ball was rolling towards this years ago.

[Big John]

You can still watch a number of games free every weekend. Before the Sunday Ticket, that's what we had. In fact, we probably had fewer free games. When did the Sunday evening game start? I can't remember, has it always been there? What was life like before ATMs?

SNF started in 1987 for the 2nd half of the season on ESPN. Then TNT got a contract for SNF for the first half of the season in 1990.

 

ESPN got all SNF games starting in 1998.

[Sturphy]

SNF started in 1987 for the 2nd half of the season on ESPN. Then TNT got a contract for SNF for the first half of the season in 1990.

 

ESPN got all SNF games starting in 1998.

:mybad:

[Bill Swerski]

So, $270 gets you all the games, which you couldn't do before its inception.

 

$270 gets you 17 weeks of NFL football. $160 gets you 24 weeks of MLB baseball and I believe that the NBA package is similarly-priced as well. And I wouldn't count on the networks continuing to pay out the wazoo for local broadcasting rights, as they've been losing advertising dollars to the cable networks for years and will continue to lose more to Internet-based content in the future.

 

Maybe. Let's get back to Goodell, do we think this is all his doing? NFL Network was started in 2003 under Tags and it's crazy to think that Goodell is the one making all these business decisions anyway. He works for the owners. The owners created the NFL Network. I'm sure the ball was rolling towards this years ago.

 

You're absolutely right that this isn't all Goodell's doing. The owners (and Tags) are just as responsible for screwing Joe Average Fan as he is. But Goodell has more power than any of them individually and all of this crap is happening under his watch.

[RC94]

for the way he has handled the idiots and criminals in the league. Too bad he wasn't commish when Leonard Little was driving around.

 

for the way he has handled spygate with burning the tapes.

 

We will see how he handles the upcoming CBA negotiations. If the NFL winds up losing the salary cap, that will be his legacy more than anything else.

[piratesownninjas]

I'm sure Tagliabue or and other commish would've headed down this path. This was probably all conceived of while Tags was still around anyway.

Expanding the league outside of the US has always been Goodell's biggest plan. He's came out and stated that much. This is an American game that the world doesn't understand, nor do they want to. This isn't an international game like Baseball or basketball, nor will it ever be. By sending a game to London one home team, it's fanbase and the city lose out on a game and money employee's of the stadium would have made... If you want to build up a game internationally, fine, just don't do it at American fans who make the game work's expense. It's not right.

Goodell's penalizing the Patriots of a first round draft pick was a bad idea as well, but that's another topic all together... Then destroying the spygate tapes, what a genius move there as well. Tags was great because he was out of the spotlight. Goodell is attention hungry and jumps in front of the camera every chance he gets, which I don't think the commish should do. I for one can't stand the guy.

[Sturphy]

$270 gets you 17 weeks of NFL football. $160 gets you 24 weeks of MLB baseball and I believe that the NBA package is similarly-priced as well. And I wouldn't count on the networks continuing to pay out the wazoo for local broadcasting rights, as they've been losing advertising dollars to the cable networks for years and will continue to lose more to Internet-based content in the future.

You're absolutely right that this isn't all Goodell's doing. The owners (and Tags) are just as responsible for screwing Joe Average Fan as he is. But Goodell has more power than any of them individually and all of this crap is happening under his watch.

The bottom line in this discussion Bill is that delivery of the NFL to you and me is all a matter of what the market will bear. MLB and the NBA would charge as much if they could. It's a business, not government. What's he supposed to do? Goodell isn't going to regulate costs when there isn't any tangible reason yet to do so. The commish could be Bugs Bunny and this would all still be happening. Probably on CWTV, but I digress.

 

This reminds me of the ticket price debate that I keep seeing around here where people get mad that some clowns are paying crazy stupid money for tickets.

 

Aside from this and Spygate destruction, I think he's doing a fine job. But, it is still pretty early. And the CBA annulment looms. We'll find out a lot about him if that happens.

[piratesownninjas]

Aside from this and Spygate destruction, I think he's doing a fine job. But, it is still pretty early. And the CBA annulment looms. We'll find out a lot about him if that happens.

So you have no problem with fans who have been supporting their team for years and years being robbed out of a game so soccer fans can watch a game in a mud bowl?